Looking for best wholesalers that sell to public

wheelman1976July 8, 2011

I am on the hunt for up to 8 - 7 to 8 foot windmill palms for my back yard up here in Michigan. I have searched high and low on the internet and really can't seem to find a great nursery to deal with. What seems to be my hang up is the freight that is charged to ship an 8 foot overall height windmill, freight costs are all over the place depending on who you buy from. Does anyone have some advice on who to call that could hook up a newbie to palms?

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john_trussville(z7b AL)

First of all, what kind of winter protection are you prepared to offer these palms? I hope you haven't read and believed the ridiculous claims made by a few unscrupulous growers/nurseries about how windmills can survive winter temps of minus 10 degrees & colder without any, or just minimal protection. Believe me, they cannot...and I'm sure others will chime in & agree. You would have to build substantial enclosures with supplemental heat around each palm for them to have any chance of surviving a typical Michigan winter. To do that around eight 8 foot tall trachys will not be easy, or cheap. And if some grower or nursery has told you they will guarantee their palms to grow in Michigan, read the fine print in their so-called guarantee and/or dead plant return policy. They will make it very hard & time consuming for you to get your money back once all of your palms die.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2011 at 12:13PM
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I found someone who can get me 8 foot overall height for about $300 shipped if I buy 4, or a little over $1000 for two.

I understand what is required to keep them alive throughout the winter moneths. I was planning on building enclosures for them and possible heat. I'm in SW Michigan not very far from Lake Michigan, so while it does get cold, we aren't talking Upper Pen. temps. I know going in that any chance of a refund is not going to happen if they die. I'm in a quandary as to get two of them to see if they go well first vs. get four for not much more.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2011 at 9:10PM
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Why not start with something smaller like 5 or 7 gal windmills to perfect your winterizing technique? Itll be far cheaper and easier than jumping right into two large, expensive palms? And if you lose the smaller ones it won't be so heart breaking. If you're successful, then make a plan for the larger ones.

One final word of caution, if you wait too much longer to get any hardy palm in the ground, it won't have sufficient time to get acclimated before winter.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2011 at 11:07PM
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I know I'm on a time limit.... I need to make a call soon or wait til spring... I'm prepared to frame up a mini green house and put in some lights for heat if need be. I'm not going to dump a grand into a couple trees and let them croak on me! :-)

    Bookmark   July 12, 2011 at 8:41PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

my advice: DONT DO IT. if you really like plants, you wouldn't put them through the torture of our winters, yea we don't have U.P. temps down here, but it gets cold enough, just because it doesn't seem cold to YOU that does not mean that a plant that normally is only exposed to temperatures around 20F MINIMUM will survive in our week long 5F and below nights. no offense but i think people growing plants in the north need to get real, stop torturing plants and start thinking about what's better for the tree. what if you decide to move? i doubt anyone will want a tacky out of place plant that they have to protect the crap out of each winter. do you really think your neighbors will like the pretty palms once they see the hideous white boxes covering them come winter? how would you like to spend your whole winter in a box? if you want palm trees move to florida/south carolina/cali/ or even oregon or washington.. anywhere ABOVE zone 7b... because anything below that is cruel and childish to want tropical and sub tropica plants... keep with house plants man.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 1:13PM
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The only people on this forum who will tell you not to do it have
no experience-or maybe failed.
If you are willing to protect them,you will not have a problem.

Your going to need more than a few lights to heat palms that size.
You will also need well insulated enclosures,enough heat and(remote)
thermometers in each enclosure to monitor temps.

I would suggest using Thermocubes that will regulate temps
automatcally-they have a model that comes on at 35f and off at 45f.
This(along with 4-6" of mulch) will do the trick.

I have Washys in the ground in southeats Iowa and they are
MUCH less hardy than Trachys.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 1:50PM
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I say go for it, but just start smaller to get started this year. Save the big order for next spring after getting your first palms through the winter.

Lots of people on GW live in even colder zones and have great success. It takes a lot of time and money to
winterize a garden especially the
larger the palms. Learn from others
on this site and other forums.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 2:29PM
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I definitely agree that starting smaller will be easier,
in some ways it can even be more rewarding....
I mean,who wants to adopt grown kids??(-;
Part of the fun is watching them grow.

One thing though is,larger palms are generally more hardy.
Sounds like a good deal too.

Just comes down to how much instant yard bling you want and
how willing you are to protect large palms.

The 2 things I heard most when I started were.....
1.)Those won't grow here in Iowa....
followed by me saying balh,blah,balh,you know,the whole
gotta convince them thing.
2.)What are you going to do when they get big???

Not a bad question~the answers the same though,just more of it.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 2:57PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

you now what else is hilarious? neither of you live in Michigan. Neither of you realize how wet and cold our winters are and neither of you seem to ever care that the plants SUFFER in the long run in these conditions. All you guys grow them for is because they look "pretty". If you want palms MOVE SOUTH or bring them inside the amount of protection some of you give to your plants defeats the purpose of growing them outside anyways. i dont understand why in the world someone would want live somewhere like michigan or iowa if they love things that live in warmer climates unless your job does not transfer, even then, just grow them in large pots and bring them in. @wetsuiter zone 7b/8a is not bad for palms, but you dont realize what our winters are like, so with all do respect, i dont know why your even giving advice, let others (like me and jimhardy) who live in those "colder zones" help. I have not tried and failed, and i dont care to try, because even if it works for a few years, your not going to be there forever to protect them, and that is leading to an eventual death sentence. im not trying to be mean, and i love plants just as much as anyone on here, as a matter of fact im going to school for landscape design and plan to move south i have also worked at nurseries, and one thing i have learned is that if you want people to become interested in your hobby, don't lie and tell them they can grow something they cant, because when they try and fail, they quit. @wheelman1976 if you insist on the tropical look, grow musa basjoo, colocasia and cannas, they easily store in the basement and grow much faster than palms. Actually grow what ever tropical plant you can get your hands on, as long as you can bring them in the house! I know people have "success" for YEARS with these palms in colder zones, but, you really are being a murderer by leaving it there in this climate for their lifespan. i have many palms, cacti and the like, they only things that stay out for winter are several varieties of hardy bamboo and some opuntia varieties which are NATIVE to michigan and other cold climate states. you could even put a large windmill palm in a large box shaped pot like the nurseries have and put it on wheels so it can at least go in the garage for winter.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 3:12PM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

Bananatree94, I hate to break it to you, but there is a poster here who has been successfully growing and protecting rather large windmill palms in a place much colder than SW MI. I think the poster is Arctictropical? Or something like that. Jimhardy, am I right? That person has had theirs for something like 15 years or longer, and it is now HUGE. He builds a square structure around it each winter. He also has european fan palms there as well. I think he is in Minnesota or some other such similar VERY VERY COLD place.

That said, it is a mountain of work for sure. However they have been doing it so long they have it down to a science and his trees look FANTASTIC! As beautiful and healthy as any you will see in warm temperate or subtropical climates.

Its about being able to enjoy it during the warm months of the year, and keeping it alive during the coldest parts. Its a challenge, and a learning experience. You can learn ALOT from it, and, you can do just about anything if you set your mind to it.

I digress, there are (were?) some people here who were insisting that Windmills and other things would survive in conditions of -10 to -20F. They are people who really do not know, nor have a clue, and some of them are fairly unscrupulous growers/ sellers/ business people. We just had another one here who appears to now be gone, and the thread about avoiding their business which turned into an advertising frenzy for that person has been deleted. (by request) Hopefully that person whom that recent thread was about has just been removed from here all together too. We all know who these people are now and know to avoid them.

The bottom line, if someone has the time, money and effort to invest in proper winter protection, they why discourage them? Let them do it! I wish them all the best luck and success in the world, so long as they know to PROTECT THEM, and are not trying to sell them based on wild false claims of cold tolerance.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 4:18PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

well the person i know of who grows them in zone 4 also lives in the dry west. Michigan has verryyyyyyy wet winters and especially our "mid winter thaw" thats the killer. because all the snow and ice melt, then refreeze, so, if this person still insists on palms, i guess i would have to suggest a raised bed, close to the house, lots of sun and to be prepared to run out in the middle of the night to plug in the heater and run out in the middle of the day (warmer days) to open the top to release greenhouse gasses. i'm not saying its impossible, but what i am saying is that it is A LOT of work to do it right. I believe that jimhardy and arctictropical are doing it right, but what happens when they move or i'd hate to say it but even die? plants live a longgg time, and most of those we plant now will still be around long after we are gone. i can't imagine jimhardy's treeferns with 8 foot long fronds being dug up and moved, or surviving the cold without him. i know that when i die (i know a long time from now i hope, im 17 right now.) that i want my plants to be my legacy, so that hopefully one day someone moves into my future house and says "wow im glad he did all this work! and now all we have to do is sit back and relax!" not "damn, why did he plant all these stupid non-hardy plants? now i have to work my butt off protecting them!" lol, i hopefully will live somewhere were everything im interested in (including trachycarpus fortunei and other hardy palms) will thrive without being stuffed into a box and i just feel that if someone chooses to settle down somewhere cold, they'd better just get used to it and grow what they can and enjoy it, without worrying about "well what happens after im gone?!?" i hope you are all understanding where im coming from. it just seems the most logical option to me.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 4:39PM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

Oh I know exactly what your point is. That said, how do you know that people do not leave these precious plants in their will to someone, or some organisation that can care for them, move them if necessary? Many places take such donations, and will gladly do the work to obtain, move and keep a specimen plant / tree. Some poeple may not have developed a liking for certain things until later in their lives when they are settled and are unable to just pick up and move. So what is wrong with pursuing their hobby, to the best of their ability where they are? NOTHING. In stead of being a debbie downer and offering discouragement, why not offer something positive and some encouragement. Especially if someone is willing to put in the time and effort to do it RIGHT. Its not like this person is going to plant them, leave them, then claim they are hardy there, and try to sell them to others. I hope you can see my point. There are many of us here who have been doing this MUCH MUCH longer than you, and longer than you have been alive.

Now if he was just going to leave them out to die, then I would agree with you, and tell him to plant something else.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 5:04PM
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Hey banana tree, this is a forum. People seek advice, people give advice. My advice is sound to anyone starting out in ANY hobby: start small, learn and build up from there.

Gardeners all over the world plant annual plants and flowers and they die every winter. Most flowers we in the US plant as summer annuals are tropical--beggonias and Impatiens. It is
not murder when they die in the winter. Lighten up.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 5:30PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

i see your point as well, but no matter how you put it, it's still ridiculous to go through all of that just to make one part of the country look like another. Now you guys can do what ever you want with these poor plants, but believe it or not the majority of people in the world would consider it ludicrous when you can just simply bring the dumb tree indoors and not be on pins and needles all winter, by the way, this guy clearly said that he was new to the hobby, do you think he has protection against Michigan winter down to a science? NO. so i think that this guys jumping into the deep end with out testing the waters. But hey, what do i know since he's older than me he knows better right? ........not.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 5:36PM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

But that is what this forum is about right? Seeking ADVICE? I dont see where you have given any constructive advice here other than "dont do it". What makes your way the RIGHT way? Nothing. Maybe you dont do it because you cant plant em in mommy and daddy's yard. Maybe you just dont have the nads to do it. Or maybe you lack the patience. It just sounds to me like instead of offering any sort of positive feedback / advice you are jumping on the "lets be negative" / "I know better than you" train right off the bat. Do you know how many of us seasoned gardeners have lost good plants for one reason or another? Like you have never had a plant die? Please. Even the words foremost horticulturalists have plants die on them, as do farmers, gardeners, et al. I'm a certified Master Gardener in my state, and know many others who are as well here. Do you think we all have perfect gardens and never have plants die? Please. Its not about perfection, its about learning and cultivating an atmosphere were LEARNING is not only accepted, but ENCOURAGED. NOT about who knows the most, or "I know more than you" or "My way is better"...etc.

The holier than thou attitude you have really isn't becoming. But honestly, I cant say its really all that atypical of someone your age. I think most of us go through that at least to some degree when so young. But really, 99.9% of the time someone who has been gardening for longer than you've been alive is going to know alot more than you are. Its not that you are dumb, its that that person has more experience and time under their belt doing it, and thus has a much larger knowledge base, based on actual experience to draw from. Book knowledge is great, but knowledge gained from experience is even better.

So what if hes new at it? How do you know he has not lurked here for as long as you have been alive? How do you know they are not well read on the subject? You don't. Just seems to me like you are poo poo-ing the idea for well, no good reason at all. Not trying to be mean to you, just calling it like I see it.

Chill out man. Seriously. I think Wetsuiter's advice is very sound for you. Lighten up.

As to the OP, Well I cant really help out with where to get large size trees shipped to you. It is pretty late in the season to be planting palms too. I wouldn't do it any later than July 15 or so personally. They need time to establish. Maybe start out small, build a protective shelter around it and see how it goes. THen with what you've learned go bigger next year and start EARLY. I think you would possibly have better results going that way, but if you are willing to risk the money to dive in head first this year, somewhat late in the game I'm definitely not going to advise you not to do it. Do what you want man, and be happy doing it. Go into it expecting the worst, hoping for the best, and if things come out somewhere in between well you wont be too terribly disappointed. Best of luck!

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 8:55PM
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Boy, this thread perked up! LOL

I go about this just like I do any hobby I get into. I research the heck out of it before doing anything. With that said, there are some constants that I only need to read a few times to get the picture of what's required to do this. At this point I don't think I feel like spending as much as I'm being quoted on trees with where we are at in the season. I'm leaning towards getting a jump next spring on the larger ones. In the meantime I'm thinking as big a potted plant as I can and winter it indoors. The other reason I'm holding off is there's a deck/pergola that needs to be built, garden path put in and layout down for the idea place for palms.

As for taking care of them... I'm not stupid, if I drop a few grand on trees, I'm not going to let them die over the winter by slacking on protection. As for time, I've got that and money... well I have enough too in order to do it right. If I didn't have enough of either I wouldn't even pose the question here.

As for what my neighbors will think about boxes protecting them.... I doubt they'll care once they see the fronds blowing in the breeze in the summertime. One has already commented that they love the idea (who wouldn't if they don't have to maintain them... am I right?).

And as for moving to a warmer climate... ain't gonna happen, my job don't transfer and I'm pretty much a lifer at this point. But my one thing on my bucket list of life is to own a piece of property with a stinkin' palm tree on it. :-) This will be checked off within the next year.

As for if I die or move.... If feasible I'll take the trees with (not if I die though!) or leave them for the next owner if they want to maintain them right, if not, they'll know what they'll be chopping down in the spring.

At the end of the day, it's just a darn tree people... relax, they don't have feelings or consciously feel pain.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2011 at 9:29PM
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Well,however plants were created there is a good system to make more.
What's that ad say,crunch all you want,we'll make more.

I know your not suggesting that I will die someday....
There may be another forum where we can talk about that
but I don't think I'll be taking(or needing(-:) any plants with me.


I think a good plan for now(not that theres anything wrong with the original),would be to buy some "smaller" sized Trachys
and give it a go this season-etc.
Don't lose the opportunity to test it out this winter.
Even with all the good info out there,nothing can replace personal experience!
You will be amazed at what you can learn the first winter.

I planted my first 2 Trachys(a Hayes stiffie from Brian's botanicals and a Fortunei of e-bay)in early November.
I kept them on the dry side,only watering when there was a thaw and the protection could be opened to let it dry out
and watched the temps very carefully.
All I had for heat was a spot light,that winter I learned a rope light didn't do ****!
I also covered the little greenhouse with covers when it got to cold...(my babies)the temps ranged from 10f to 90f inside the protection that winter.

Both Trachys made it and are still going strong today despite some set backs along the way.

Don't lose the chance to try a few over THIS winter~
thats my advice and welcome to the wonderful hobby of
growing cold hardy palms.......
I enjoy it even more where I live for the challenge but it's
not for everyone~fine with me(-:

I don't know if I'd want to see all my neighbors growing these(I wouldn't be special anymore)-LOL but at least we'd have something to talk about!(-:

    Bookmark   July 14, 2011 at 1:56PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

wow novaplantguy, for an experienced "adult" you really seem to let me get to you! lol seems like you never grew out of that "stage". i just dont understand why my advice is not worthy of posting? NOT ALL ADVICE IS GOING TO BE POSITIVE. get over it, if you really were a "master gardener" you would know that not everything is possible so get over it and get the stupid fairy tale of global warming out of your head, palms dont naturally grow here any never will, and doing it regardless is just not realistic or caring for the plant. now im not the one that needs to lighten up, i simply posted my advice, just like the rest of you, and because it was not the same as all of yours, you jumped down my throat. BTW i dont know about where you live but its not hard to become a master gardener here, when i worked at the nursery there were several there, who took a simple college class for one summer, and they start accepting at 18.... im done with this thread and i'm also done with immature adults who have nothing better to do than bash other people who have a different point of view. so get real, stop torturing plants and plant a few pine trees OR man up and follow your dreams of growing a REAL tropical garden and move south.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2011 at 3:36PM
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Dear banana-

You make no sense at all.

"get real, stop torturing plants and plant a few pine trees OR man up and follow your dreams of growing a REAL tropical garden and move south."

How about you stop torturing us???

If somebody wants to grow palms in their own yard-why do you care so much.

Also,what is this "man up" nonsense???

If I moved south to plant palm trees,it's sounds like I'd be
following your dreams/or at least your advice.

I don't think growing palms in the south is that dreamy honestly,sounds kind of easy-nothing against our southern folks but......

My dream is to grow palms right here in Iowa-those dreams have come true,besides,by your own terminology wouldn't
it be more manly(maning up)to grow them up north???

It's certainly tougher.

I am sure you can agree and if you do,that mean Nova plant bully might stop picking on you(-;

    Bookmark   July 14, 2011 at 5:52PM
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One additional question I have is some have talked about "airing out" the enclosure if there's a warm up during the winter. Does one really have to do that or can they just leave the tree wrapped (frame/plastic) until spring with no harm? I watched the coconut mike youtube videos, and his seem totally wrapped (including styrofoam) or did I miss something? I'm planning on what my enclsures would like like, and I'm thinking of making basically permanate 90 degree pieces out of 1 x 1 with plastic stapled inside and outside, then all I would have to do is put two 90's together to have a box.... any thoughts?

    Bookmark   July 14, 2011 at 10:22PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

in the end its not about me but the plants. all i am trying to do is let you guys know that these plants should not have to grow in less than ideal conditions. it just doesn't seem fair. but if you insist, there is nothing i can do. jimhardy i know that all of you plants look great and healthy now, but the part im worried about is when you get older and wont be able to care for them the same. i hope you have a plan for when that comes because it will be sad to see all of your work go down the drain. thats my final word in this subject.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2011 at 11:02PM
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You don't have to open it up,it's just the type of protection
I used and the fact that mine were planted in Nov,I needed
a very careful and measured control of moisture in the soil
and in the air.
I was trying to create similar conditions to John's in Colorado..

    Bookmark   July 15, 2011 at 4:18PM
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Do you have a link to anything John in Colorado did?

    Bookmark   July 17, 2011 at 10:27PM
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I think I would have to e-mail it to you.

Not much actual info on protection though.

    Bookmark   July 18, 2011 at 12:49AM
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LOL @ Bananatree! I live across the pond from you in SE WI and my winters are the SAME, if not COLDER than yours. Wet too as we average 60-70 inches of snow per winter. I've been growing Trachys in the ground since 2008 and that one is still thriving.

2008 on planting day.


Few days ago.

Heated with space heater set at 40F. Costs less than a quarter a day.

    Bookmark   July 18, 2011 at 10:13PM
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wxman81, were you using an actual space heater or a lightbulb of some sort?

    Bookmark   July 18, 2011 at 10:51PM
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One of these cheap $15 plastic Walmart space heaters.

Work great!

    Bookmark   July 18, 2011 at 11:18PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

@wxman81: if you would actually read my posts you would know that i said it was possible, its just not a good idea in the long run, like after you move or die... plus, those winter protections look super tacky and i would never suggest someone to add something to their permanent landscape that would need something that looks like a refrigerator in your yard for the season... but hey, whatever floats your boat. glad i'm not your neighbor. so you keep laughing at me, i dont care, because i'm pretty sure your neighbors/passer-byes laugh at you all the time for the redneck boxes in front of your house.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2011 at 1:34AM
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Well I'm in Minnesota, perhaps a click cooler than Wxman, and definitely cooler (winters) than lower Michigan. We have good hot and humid summers though and even my bananas grow huge here. I have in-ground trachies and they are doing EXCELLENT here. One is 7+ feet tall now, the other is 5.5+ feet. They are easy to protect (late Nov thru late Mar) using only xmas lights and a Thermocube and one CFL lightbulb. I also grow yuccas, most unprotected. My large 5.5' trunked yucca does get some winter protection and has flowered here and is producing seed pods currently. I also grow needle palms and have successfully wintered one here without any heat (just covered/mulched).

My neighbors and extended family are amazed. My back yard around my inground pool looks tropical which was my reason to get into this hobby in the first place.

An hour or two in the late fall and again early spring to cover/uncover my palms is no trouble at all. It is SOOO worth it and is very rewarding, a small sacrifice to make in order to have the yard I have 8+ months out of the year.

What happens when I move and/or I die? When I move the palms and large yucca are coming with me. If I die first, my wife will continue protecting the palms and if she didn't want to take them with when she moves, there are many in my extended family who would be fighting over who got to take the palms.

To the original poster: I agree with the others, start out smaller. You will need to learn some valuable lessons along the way. God knows, I made my share of mistakes while learning! I know a source where you can get 6' trachies with 3-4' of clear trunk for around $200 delivered. I'd start with one of those maybe...

Strange thread here but I thought I needed to offer my $.02...

    Bookmark   July 19, 2011 at 8:22AM
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He has his mid made up,don't waste your time trying to convince him.

You do sound like someones Mom though.....

I take that back,my Mom thinks it's cool!

    Bookmark   July 19, 2011 at 12:24PM
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mnpalms, can you email me your source for those palms you mentioned? it's my user name at gmail. I ordered a couple 15 gallon palms from collector palms the other night for what seemed a fair price. I'm going to get those hopefully soon and get them in the ground to get acclimated.

On a side note, does anyone know if you can embed photos without having a photobucket acct? I am half way through building my deck/dock with pergola, I'd love to add some pics to show my progress.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2011 at 10:34PM
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Photo bucket or other similar photo site works. Shame we can't upload directly from cell phone cameras.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2011 at 11:14PM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

@ banana tree:
"if you want palm trees move to florida/south carolina/cali/ or even oregon or washington.. anywhere ABOVE zone 7b... because anything below that is cruel and childish to want tropical and sub tropica plants..."

Uh, You know there are palms that need some cold like the windmill. Look at wxman81. His windmill is thriving in 5b! Its not dead at all. That is actually the same tree in the first pic as it is in the last one!

"do you really think your neighbors will like the pretty palms once they see the hideous white boxes covering them come winter?"

I honestly dont think it looks that bad. And when it comes summer the neighbors will think "wow, look at that palm tree. Its doing great!"

"how would you like to spend your whole winter in a box?"

I dont think plants have feelings like people do.

Not trying to be rude or anything, just trying to prove some points.

@wxman81: Your doing great with your palm!! It looks perfect!!


    Bookmark   July 19, 2011 at 11:44PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

Hunter, I think its best you do some studying before trying to teach me something. (honestly, i'm one of the people who always helps answer your questions) You are right that windmill palms DO need some cold, but NOT subzero temperatures, and i was not implying that their "feelings" would be hurt by being kept in a box, but more so that they will not take to it well, they are evergreen plants and therefore need some UV light even in the winter, sure not as much as in the summer, but it is not ideal to keep them this way. SERIOUSLY if i have to repeat myself one more time i'm going to explode IT IS POSSIBLE BUT NOT IDEAL IN THE LONG RUN!!! get that through all of your heads.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2011 at 3:27AM
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Maybe you should keep your anti-cold hardy palm comments to yourself.....
It's not productive-you have a right to your opinion sure-
but what if you posted on a car racing forum and told people
they shouldn't drive so fast because it's dangerous.
It just isn't going to be accepted-
People that grow palms out of their zones are passionate about and love their palms
-your comments are wide of the point.
And your not making any friends here,in fact dangerously
close to being a troll.
I know you don't want that,do you?
Maybe you can find something positive to say....
even though you don't agree with it.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2011 at 1:01PM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

LOL banana tree!!! So you answer one of my questions and you think you always answer now? LOL. I agree with everything jimhardy said.Why is it so bad if people want a tropical look in their yards? Lots of palms thrive in zone 7. Look at Alex. He is doing great! Now, I wont plant a palm where I live but If I go to more southers states theres no stoping me from planting palms. Didnt you say you had bananas where you live? Thats not a bananas natural habitat. LOL ITS THE SAME CONCEPT. Come on dude!

    Bookmark   July 20, 2011 at 1:31PM
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bananatree94(6a MI)

JImhardy, this is a palm forum NOT a "lets grow palms in ridiculous situations" forum, therefore i am NOT being a troll, because i am simply being a part of a debate, not a fight, and i have a strong feeling you are considering this as one, how about you grow up and learn that debates are something that adults do, and not always fight, and Hunter, i feel like you haven't read this whole thread, which is why you said that you will move south and grow palms and that there will be no stopping you, because i clearly encouraged the growing of palms in states with zones of 7a+ so GO AHEAD BE MY GUEST. and no, hunter, growing banana trees and palms here and bringing them inside in the winter is not the same concept as growing them here and leaving them outside to fend for themselves, BTW hunter, you didn't even know what a weed was until i told you, and you thought that yuccas like a lot of water, you also post a different question on here like every other hour, seriously, just google it! ANYWAYS there is nothing bad for wanting a tropical look in your yard, but you should not be stupid and think they can be hardy in the long run where they aren't! Now if you would all quit whining like little babies because i have my own opinion on this subject and drop it?

    Bookmark   July 20, 2011 at 7:23PM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

Can I help it im a beginner? When you started did you know all the stuff you do now? And yuccas produse suckers so I was seeing if it was that. And googling dosnt do crap sometimes. I like to post a question and know I will get an answer than just hope I get an answer on google. Oh and you said 7B PLUS!!

Im tired of arguing,I know you are too. Lets just stop. This is a garden forum,not an arguing forum.

I hope we are good.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2011 at 11:13PM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

Im not going to argue anymore so if you post a comeback I wont care. I know you are entitled to your opinion and I have my opinion. We cant be enemies over somthing silly like this. Im sorry if I offended you. I hope we can oversee this and be friends.


    Bookmark   July 20, 2011 at 11:33PM
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"JImhardy, this is a palm forum NOT a "lets grow palms in ridiculous situations" forum, therefore i am NOT being a troll, because i am simply being a part of a debate, not a fight,"

Now see what you did there?
You just insulted everyone that grows palms where you don't think they should.

Telling people they are stupid(or being stupid)or are ridiculous(need to grow up) is not in the spirit of a friendly palm forum.

I think you need to stop being a troll and causing problems
or find somewhere else to post.....
maybe there is a troll forum-you could Google that(-:

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 11:08AM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

Hmmm, so I'm the one thats "Childish" yet Mr banana dude is the one that said "Thats my final word on the subject" how many posts ago? Yet, He keeps coming back, angry, snarky and arrogant as ever. I sure am glad people "grow up" , "learn" and "grow". Well at least most do. Could you imagine if our country was run by someone like mr banana dude? I shudder to think. I guess its a good thing I live in a state where there are TONS and TONS of palm trees, especially in the SE part of my state, or else mr banana dude might send the palm police after me. LOL! Hilarious!!!

BTW.. WXman is one I had forgotten about. Those palms of his I have watched since his very first post here years ago and they are looking fantastic! Congrats to him on a job well done! But I digress, Mr banana dude seems only interested in his point of view and insulting those who disagree, and prove to him that they are being successful in their pursuits. Maybe if he stopped looking at things in stark black and white, and saw all the different shades of gray, or even COLOR, in life, maybe he would be more positive and encouraging as opposed to bitter and negative. Honestly, I feel sorry for people like that esp young ones.

Oh and one more thing, I supposed the people who are PAID by the Smithsonian Institution here in D.C., and the National Arboretum, to garden for them, and GROW THINGS, are also jerks, idiots, and not nearly as smart as Mr banana dude since they are growing palms too, in public gardens. Yeah, RIIIIGHT.

What a joke. Please, if all you can do mr banana dude is insult us, then do us all a favor and just leave.

I would tell you to go to the banana forums, but hey, but the logic and thoughts you have shared here I'm going to venture a guess that if you go to that forum, you will probably end up insulting and chastising people for growing bananas in Canada, Michigan, or other "very cold" places. So I guess thats probably not a good idea for you either.

I would tell you to go over to the Conifer forum, but you know, I'm a Conifer enthusiast too and I don't think I (or anyone else over there) would want you there either. I can see it now .... "What??? You CANT grow Tsuga Heterophylla (Western Hemlock) on the EAST COAST! THEY DON'T GROW THERE! YOU'RE KILLING IT!!!!". LOL! Please, give me a break.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 10:41PM
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would someone just tell me where wmpalms is getting the 3-4 foot trunk windmills for 200 shipped?

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 11:02PM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

Nova, that is an epic comment. Its hilarious!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2011 at 11:59PM
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Ok you guys, i'm not new to this site, but i just made an account because this post really got my attention. I have been growing tropical plants here in Eastern Michigan outdoors in the summer for nearly 12 years, now i know it is not as long as some of you other people on here but it does count for something. In all of these years i have always brought my plants in the house for winter except for a trachycarpus that i had in the ground for 3 years (summer 2002-summer 2005.) oh and a few absolute hardy species like bamboo and cactus. (i believe bananatree also said he brings his plants in, so why do you persistently attack him for his name? childish) But I have to agree with bananatree even though he does seem a little radical in his approach, our winters are not suitable for these wonderful plants when it comes to a permanent planting. Sure, i have protected the trachycarpus for those years, and it is still alive today, but i had to give it away to my cousins in North Carolina because i can't care for it anymore with semi-recent back problems and it did not seem fair to let it sit there to die (My cousins were the ones who gave it to me in the first place). You all also have to understand that he did say he was only 17 years old, I am pretty impressed that he has such a strong (educated?) opinion on the subject already. He seems to care for the plants and to me it looked like he was only looking out for a fellow gardener. Also he did say that zone 7?(or was it 8? i think he changed in the middle haha) was ok for palms. So i do not understand why some of you in those zones are being so hateful toward the kid? Nova: you used the Smithsonian as an example for growing palms in cold climates, but the truth is (which i do not know if you realize this or not) is that D.C. is in a solid zone 7b-8a. Is that not near the natural climate of these palms? Therefore it is not a legitimate example to compare to Michigan's zone 5-6 weather. Now I nor bananatree can not stop anyone from planting these awesome plants in our zone, but, we can give advice, and If you insist on growing them here, be prepared for a load of work and have someone to inherit them once your unable to care for them yourselves. I plan on moving to North Carolina once i retire where i WILL grow several varieties of palms that do not need protection there. :) Oh and bananatree if you still care to reply here (even after you said you wouldn't anymore) i think you need to "man up" and apologize for calling people stupid. Let them see for themselves what mistakes or gifts they can bring upon themselves. On the other hand, maybe some of you should take a look at yourselves, and read how upset and ridiculous you looked for even considering starting a fight with a kid. DONT LET IT GET TO YOU! HES A KID! I'm sure he will grow many palms in his career because he even said that he does not plan on staying in this state. Here is a quote that i believe you ALL can learn from "The first step to believing something is true is wanting to believe it is true...or being afraid that it is"-Terry Goodkind.
With Love and Care- Sarah.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 12:35AM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

You do know Im only 13, right? Im a kid. Its just his hot temper that ticked me off. He is saying I didnt know what a weed was and I post a question every other hour. Also, I didnt say anything about yuccas liking water. That offended me. This kid needs to learn to control his temper. Other people have feelings too. I dont understand why this guy hates like this. So if hes at a job and he dosnt agree with his boss he goes crazy and starts insulting him? Its the same thing. What he said was mean. Hey! That palm cant grow there! (Random insults) Why so mean? Why cant you just suggest somthing rather than just yelling at people.
Im really not trying to be mean just suggesting you souldnt be yelling at people just because they have different oppinions.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 2:04AM
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Hunter, yes i am aware you are 13, but to be honest,i do not see why you had to jump in if you were just going to present the same information as the other posters? sometimes its good to let other people do the work :) But from what I'm reading here Bananatree seemed to only be giving advice at first, and he did not seem to be yelling until people started to gang up on him for what he believes. I honestly think that the "rude" disposition is how some people (including me sometimes) naturally debate, it does not mean that are always trying to be offensive, it means that they are assertive for what they believe and that is a good quality for debating. I believe that anyone can turn to insults when they are put into a corner (this is NOT good debate quality but we are only human). And from the looks of it Hunter, the only reason you jumped in this form was to jump in with the others on bashing bananatree, forcing you beliefs down his throat. That is probably why he insulted you, because you came in here, not to answer to original posted question, but to join in on proving him "wrong" (it still does not make bananatree right for being mean, and i do think he should apologize still). You were however, very mature and seemed to accept that he has a different view on the subject. I hope you two make amends, share knowledge and learn from each other, this hobby needs it! at this point it does not even matter how he or anyone presented their knowledge, the point is, if you actually try to help the original poster, unlike some people on here, you will get a lot farther than being hung up on what other people say. Now i don't know what you people on here stand for, but it sure as heck should NOT be ganging up on the youth and future of our hobby! Gosh, why am i even up so late..

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 3:11AM
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It's the anonymous nature of the internet that allows people to act as a know -it-all or be rude. I watch another forum ( not garden related ) and it gets ugly. When I first joined this site a few months ago, I was criticized for my planting zone I have listed here!

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 10:06AM
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Hey Sarah

Welcome to garden web.

Personally,I think banana boy brought this on himself.
If you look at the original post,you can see that wheelman
was asking about where to find larger palms+cheaper shipping.....
he was not asking if anyone thought he should plant them.

Banana boys 1st post
my advice: DONT DO IT. if you really like plants, you wouldn't put them through the torture of our winters, yea we don't have U.P. temps down here, but it gets cold enough, just because it doesn't seem cold to YOU that does not mean that a plant that normally is only exposed to temperatures around 20F MINIMUM will survive in our week long 5F and below nights. no offense but i think people growing plants in the north need to get real, stop torturing plants and start thinking about what's better for the tree. what if you decide to move? i doubt anyone will want a tacky out of place plant that they have to protect the crap out of each winter. do you really think your neighbors will like the pretty palms once they see the hideous white boxes covering them come winter? how would you like to spend your whole winter in a box? if you want palm trees move to florida/south carolina/cali/ or even oregon or washington.. anywhere ABOVE zone 7b... because anything below that is cruel and childish to want tropical and sub tropica plants... keep with house plants man.

Anyway-don't care for his attitude and I agree I think he
does need to apologize-not for his opinion but for the unfriendly way he presents it.



I do know someone who has MANY large palms for sale-the shipping on these is always the issue
thats why I went for a mass planting of smaller palms(from e-bay)...and because I wanted to
experiment with different plants/protection methods.
If you are willing to drive to Massachusetts,I am sure my buddy could work you a great deal.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 11:20AM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

I'm getting pissed. Sarah, it dosnt matter that he insults me?? I HAVE FEELINGS TOO! You don't care he Says I don't know what a weed is?
I'm the "youth and future of our hobby" too. He can yell at me but I can't yell back. I don't see you supporting me! I feel you don't care what I think!
I have feelings too,but all you care about is supporting banana guy.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 12:36PM
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Wetsuiter, I agree that people are more rude when they are anonymous on the internet for sure. Jimhardy, yes he did bring it on himself, but i don't believe he expected a forum of adults to act they way they did, ganging up towards him, I guess he did not answer the original question after all, but he did try to help the poster, thanks for the welcome. Hunter, stop, you are now just trying to start more of this nonsense. I really do not think you understood what i was tying to tell you, because i do care what you think, i just did not see why it was necessary to jump in here in the first place, what you said was already presented and only added fuel to the fire, so please, read it again because i am done in this forum.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 4:22PM
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Hunter_M(Kentucky Z.6)

I know. When he said I didnt know what a weed was and that I posted a question every other hour it just blew me over the top. Im done here too.


    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 5:07PM
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NoVaPlantGuy_Z7b_8a(Alexandria, VA 7B/8A)

Aridandtropical, if you see my username, you would see and know that I am WELL AWARE of my zone. Also, Palm trees are native only as far north as extreme SE, North Carolina. They will not grow in DC without protection, except for Windmills, which are marginal, and Sabal Minor and Needle palms, which are almost fool-proof here. Bananas, well, Basjoos can be grown much much farther north than here with no protection other than a pile of mulch. The only difference between here in Michigan is that our winters are considerably more mild, and we need to protect stuff less. We still have winters, just like you though, and sometimes, as witnessed by our record all time lows, and some winters snowfalls, can be just as brutal as they are far north. 77" of snow in the winter of 2010 was nothing to shake a stick at, even by the snowiest places in the country standards. yep, we had that here. =o) One of the biggest differences is DURATION of bitter cold here is much much shorter on the infrequent occasions we do get down near 0F.

I was giving mr banana dude back just what he was putting in. Nothing more. I found it much more hilarious than anything else, and if you think someone typing words on the internet is getting to someone or makes someone angry, well, I'm not sure you know too much about the text only form of communication.

In stead of presenting his "opinion" in a constructive manner, he was nothing more than arrogant, rude, and down right insulting to almost everyone here. I might expect that of someone age 8-10, but most people by the time they are 17 usually have a grasp on what being opinionated is, and the difference between that and just being down right rude and insulting.

Glad you are having successes with your tropicals so far north.

Oh, and thanks Hunter M. It was mainly meant to be FUNNY, and I think it kind of was. ;-)

Personally, I think Hunter M, for being his age, participated in a much more adult manner here than did mr banana dude. you'd think that would be the other way around now wouldn't you?

    Bookmark   July 22, 2011 at 5:48PM
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This was hilarious....

I buy tropical plants and purposely torture them. I hung one, threw another off a cliff and lit a third one on fire, haha.

But seriously:

I grow stuff like this in Syracuse, NY. Tons of snow! I do bring them inside in the winter but that's only because I can because they're small enough (barely). But I wish I had big trees and if I did I'd have to winter them outside because they'd be too big to move and too big for the house. They look awesome by my pool. Anyone can grow them down south. That's no fun. If I lived in Florida I'd be growing apple trees.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2013 at 2:35AM
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You could use heat tape for pipes that cuts on at 33 and then wrap that with burlap, wrap up the leaves tying them up. I would then use a layer of chicken wire with insulation material and another layer of burlap. You could even make grommets for the burlap so it would be easy to tighten. To me this would look a lot better than making overly large covers, the trick would be the crown, if you put extra insulating tape on them, and used christmas lights all aroudn the crown not only would it look cool it would be functionable.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2013 at 10:56PM
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I know this thread is older than used mulch but found it hilarious from a viewpoint of discouraging others to push the envelope.
Ive been growing palms for years in the mountains of Tennessee and have had a few poor results but have some massive palms.
Tim in Wisconsin and Jim in Iowa know what they are talking about! Its been a few years since this threat started and those two are still growing nice palms.
Google hardy palm forums and see what others are doing

    Bookmark   August 24, 2013 at 6:23PM
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I live in northern ohio. I bought a 6 ft windmill, a 6 ft European fan that are over 8 ft tall now. Bought them 3 pyrs ago. I really enjoy caring for them. This yr added several banana trees, 2 orange trees, a lemon tree and numerous tropical hibiscus . Also have 4 pygmys date that are doing just fine along with a white bird, canna lilies, 4 crotons that have triple in size,

So what I'm saying is "go for it". It can be done and is very rewarding.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 10:49AM
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