Guillot's Sunset?

moonie_57May 22, 2013

What do you think? I thought it would be more pink than it is, but it is suppose to be GS. Might it gain more pink as it matures? Sorry for the blur.

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moonie_57

A bloom that had just opened.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 8:13PM
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mksmth zone 6b Tulsa Oklahoma(6b)

Its beautiful!! How does it smell?

Mike

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 8:48PM
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moonie_57

Mike - I"m not really all that great with scent but it's suppose to have a rose scent and I guess that is how it smells. I did go out and smell some roses but some of them smelt different than others. LOL

Just a little tidbit of info.... i hate roses! :)

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 8:53PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Moonie,
Your leaves look correct, but the flower looks a bit off. Is it newly rooted (Newly rooted plants blooms sometimes look a bit off, takes couple of cycles before it looks correct.)
Here is a pic of my GS that was probably blooming in 70 something degree temps

If its not GS let me know..
Cheers

This post was edited by freak4plumeria on Thu, May 23, 13 at 0:26

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 9:48PM
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moonie_57

Freak - one thing I am noticing between yours and mine is that your blooms seem to open up flatter where as mine tends to stay cupped, at least to this point.

This was an unrooted cutting I received last year.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 10:00PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Moonie,
Hmmmmm...My GS came from Bud Guillot so it is the real deal.
Id wait and see, the leaves look correct.
If not let me know and you can have a cutting.

PS... Did I owe you a plant this season??? Cant remember
Cheers
James

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 10:22PM
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citizen_insane

Monie_57, is it one you got from Derrick?

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 10:43PM
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moonie_57

Freak - No, you don't owe me a plant. When we talked you offered me a cutting that you didn't think lived up to your expectations but I guess life got busy for both of us.

Regarding your GS... do you remember when yours was immature if the blooms cupped like that?

BTW, I am still trying to nurse along one of those cuttings from Esteban. I'm 90% sure it is not going to make it. If I had the heart to really put it to the test, I'd be heading to the compost pile right now. :(

George - It is not a cutting from Derrick.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 11:09PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Moonie,
I got my GS in 1994, it was in a 5 gal pot rooted and was almost 3 1/2 ft and had 6 inflos on it. So no sorry, I think my flowers always looked this way. I do think though depending on weather,etc mine do cup a bit, but open all the way. Let me look and see if I have other pics of her. The pics I posted were prob from the 2000.

Was the cutting Bonnie F??? If so I have a rooted one.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 12:16AM
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moonie_57

Freak - Yes! It was Bonnie Fox. You have a great memory. I would love to have her.

Have you found any earlier pics of GS showing the flowers cupping? So far none of mine have opened fully.

And, since you've grown so many plumeria, a question for you... have you ever had a dead cutting where the wood was hard, almost petrified? I have a singapore that is hard as a rock but I'm almost positive the thing is dead. I keep some hope because of the fact that is, indeed, hard.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 12:33AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Moonie,

I edited my post with the pics and added another one.
Did you try to poke the Sing Cutting with a needle to see if white sap comes out??

If a cutting is extremely thick, it could be dead but heard. If its normal thickness then it maybe viable.
Send me your info and ill ship off the BF to you on Monday.

Cheers

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 1:35AM
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moonie_57

Freak - there seems to be somewhat of a difference with that pic, don't you think? More cupped, or is this just wishful thinking? I guess the only thing I can do is give it more time and allow it to mature.

The singapore cutting did ooze some latex from the tips last time I checked it. Tomorrow I'm going to check it again.

I'll shoot you an email tomorrow. Thanks so much!
And thanks for taking the time to help me ponder over GS.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 2:10AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Moonie,
Singapore White can take a bit longer to root, so give her time.
Cheers

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 2:54AM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

Moonie,

That almost looks like a pink pansy to me.

What is the plant habit like? Compact? Large?

Here's my GS in early summer.

This post was edited by dave_in_nova on Thu, May 23, 13 at 9:28

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 9:25AM
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beachplant(9b)

mine, from Derrick, has an inflo. I`ll get some pics. This was an unrooted cutting I got in the fall. It`s in the upper 80`s here with humidity 100% the past couple of weeks.

I am always amazed how different the blooms look depending on the heat and humidity. Good luck with your cutting.
Tally HO!

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 10:12AM
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kt2fl(okla z7)

I got a Guillot's Sunset from Derrick last fall as well. It had 2 inflos and I don't think they look like any of James' pictures. The flowers had spicy fragrance to my nose.

Kenny

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 12:43PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

My Guillots from Bud has a mixed aroma but def a rose note to it, not so spicy if I remember correctly. Cstars sells Guillots also under a different name, Bud states that he got his GS originally from a Military surplus store (go figure). Norma and Armida at Cstars told me its a native variety to Mexico.
Fuzzy in Hawaii aka Blooming plumeria told me in 2005 that he never saw a GS before on Oahu, so I sent him 4 large multi tipped cuttings, so if you buy GS from Bloomingplumeria on Ebay you are getting a GS that originally was sourced from Bud. So I do not know where Derrick got his GS from, perhaps fuzzy as he has had it for about 8 yrs now

Cheers.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 5:49PM
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moonie_57

Hi Dave.

I can see why you might think it is Pink Pansy but I'm 100% sure it is not. This cutting grew large, and pretty fast, too. I wish that I had already mentioned that the flowers a bit more pink than they appear in the photo. Not much, but a little.

Kenny - My GS did not come from Derrick but did your flowers look anything like mine? Did they have that cupped appearance?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 8:51PM
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kt2fl(okla z7)

Mona,

Derrick's GS doesn't have that cupped appearance at all. If i remember correctly, flower petals on his GS are pointy and not rounded.

Yesterday I looked at the Celadine I got from him, the leaves don't have the usual double outlines either.

I think it's one of those hit-miss things when people try to ID his plumerias.

Kenny

    Bookmark   May 24, 2013 at 1:31PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Mona,

I can post a pic of mine blooming here in our climate if you like. Mine also came from Bud.. so like james mentioned, it is the real deal!!!

Hi James!! Have a wonderfull weekend.. My HK has another inflo!! ;-) Thank you!!

Take care,

Laura

    Bookmark   May 25, 2013 at 12:10AM
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tdogdad(Zone 9)

two pictures of an original Guillot's Sunset and a picture ot the plant they came from which is Bud Guillot's (Bud in hat)

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    Bookmark   May 25, 2013 at 1:00AM
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jandey1(TX8)

Holy cow, that's some dense branching! Love the huge inflo, too.

Bill, mine's puttering along despite a sizable sunburn on the trunk. Is GS normally late to leaf out?

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 11:13AM
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mksmth zone 6b Tulsa Oklahoma(6b)

Beautiful pictures. Thanks everyone!

Mike

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 1:20PM
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powderpuff

WOW! Bud's tree is amazing as are all of his trees. Proof once again that Plumerias just have to be in the ground to ever reach their full potential.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 1:34PM
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daogirl

This is my GS in the heat of an Inland Empire summer (taken last August). It's the first to drop leaves in the fall, and the first to leaf out in the spring. It survived this past winter's cold spell (it's planted in-ground in a raised bed) that killed about half my plumies. Most of the tips hardened off, but it's sprouting new leaves/branches like crazy.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2013 at 3:51PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Hey Bill!!

Thanks for the pic of Bud and his tree.. I still can't believe the size of his beauties!!! Truly breathtaking... Yours are to die for too!!! ;-)

Jen... My GS is very slow to leaf.. Every year, it is the last one besides Daisy Wilcox. Hope you are well.. Blaze is looking good.. I need to post a pic of the roots. YOU would be proud!!! I just love this little guy! Thank you!!

Laura

    Bookmark   May 30, 2013 at 5:47PM
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jandey1(TX8)

Laura, I'm so thrilled you were able to get Blaze to root! She seems pretty tough for a red, and I'm happy someone else has a duplicate now. I know you'll be successful in getting her big and blooming!

Daogirl, that picture of GS is one of the prettiest I've seen!

    Bookmark   June 1, 2013 at 9:20AM
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citizen_insane

Hi guys,
my Guillot's Sunset I got from Derrick just bloomed. I does not look like it is Guillot's Sunset, the flower is large and does not have rounded petals. It looks like it is Hawaiian Sunset.

This the Hilo Beauty I got from Derrick

This is Hilo Beauty Dewaine Callahan posted on Facebook

Derrick's Hilo Beauty is not really what is known in the plumeria world as Hilo Beauty. It is just some NOID red nobody can ID on Facebook.

This is Jean Moragne from Derrick.

No way this is Jean Moragne that has washout colors. This is Kauka Wilder. The colors are bright and the flower is only 3" in diameter (not 4-5" that Jean Moragne flower is).

I am so highly disappointed with Derrick. One mistake I can understand. But so many mistakes it is unforgivable. He cannot be trusted.

George

    Bookmark   June 1, 2013 at 2:21PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

George,
On an earlier post of mine I stated that Fuzzy aka Blooming Plumerias in Hawaii stated that he had never seen Guillots Sunset in Hawaii (on Oahu growing anywhere other than JL) back in the mid 2000's, was told it was a native of Mexico by the Cstar sisters. So it was surprising to hear that someone else had a GS tree big enough to sell cuttings from on Oahu other than Fuzzy and JL.

You may want to contact your seller and try to see if you can figure out if you received the incorrect items.

Good Luck
Cheers

    Bookmark   June 1, 2013 at 4:39PM
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krismast(6 S.E. PA)

George,

Have you tried contacting Derrick directly? I think that would be the best thing to do before posting any negative feedback here. I had a great experience with Derrick, and even if the cuttings he sent me are mislabeled, the prices were too good to pass up. I'm sure any flowers I get will still be beautiful :)

Kristopher

    Bookmark   June 1, 2013 at 6:51PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Just a thought.. The Jean Moragne that George posted looks like my Passion Orange.. I keep going back and forth..

Just a thought..

I'm sure this is very frustrating..

Laura

    Bookmark   June 1, 2013 at 9:55PM
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citizen_insane

Kristofer,
I did contact Derrick. All I got is that he stands by the varieties he sells to be true. That is just a bunch of baloni.

Laura, it is Kauka Wilder. I got both Jean Moragne and Kauka Wilder from him and the flowers are identical. Besides, they match pictures of Kauka Wilder posted by people on Facebook.

I like the quality of cuttings Derrick sells and his low prices but when you do not get what you order it is no good.
George

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 12:17AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Laura,

Your Passion Orange is Gorgeous!! Very similar to KW, but seems like George's pic of his "J Morange" has red streaks that your P Orange does not have in it, but similar..

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 1:50AM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

The whole situation makes me feel bad.. I hope this can be resolved...

Good luck...

Thanks James... I thought I would post the pic!! Similar yes, but it is KW that George has... I bought the Passion Orange from Fuzzy. It is a beauty!

Take care,

Laura

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 10:15AM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

While incorrect George they are still so beautiful! But I understand the disappointment.

Laura, your P Orange is stunning!! What a beauty!

So are you all posting pics of blooming Plumerias right now or are these from previous years? Because mine are just starting to wake up and some pushing inflos but I don't think I will be flowers at least for another month! :(

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 10:24AM
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citizen_insane

No-Clue,
I am selling some plants at the PSA sale. I have a lot of plants grown from my trees. I also bought some cuttings from Derrick and rooted them to sell and help raise money for the PSA. How the heck am I going to label those plants? If I label them wrong I am going to lose credibility. The best thing is not to take them to the sale. Then what do I do with them?
George

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 1:51PM
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krismast(6 S.E. PA)

Couldn't you just label them as unknown and sell them for less? I'm sure SOMEBODY would buy them! I wish I could make it!

Kristopher

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 2:03PM
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Andrew Scott

From what I have heard, it seems like Derrick is mislabeling his trees. I had a noid bloom that I got from him. He told me it was Kaneohe Sunburst. I posted pics on Facebook and had it confirmed that it wasn't.

The feed back that I am seeing on Facebook is not very encouraging at this point. The consensus is that he is mislabeling the cuttings he sells.

George, I agree with you. If your paying $5 or $100, it doesn't matter if your not getting what you paid for.

Andrew

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 3:01PM
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citizen_insane

Thank You Andrew for the input. He seemed so good before the cuttings blooms. Right night he is on my you know what list. And what ticks me off is his attitude: arrogant and no apology.

I think he has some trees of his own but that he also buys a lot of cuttings from individuals and resells them. This would explain why we have so many labeled erroneously. I do not think he has many trees mislabeled.
George

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 3:41PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

When we buy a tree named as a specific cultivar, we expect it to be the true tree.. That is why if and when we find that they are not, we need to keep the names off of the trees and label as noids.. Or like my tree that I bought from the Plumeria gallery labeled as " Aztec Gold" and it is a Miami Rose. They also sent me a Intense Rainbow and after several years, the bloom looks like ( and it is labeled) " possible Vera Verde". Since I cannot confirm that it is a Vera Verde.. All I can do is label it as a " possible". We have to keep the varieties pure..and correct. I can't tell you how frustrated I was at The Plumeria Gallery for doing this... I don't think they are in business anymore.. But, I wouldn't buy from them either.

Hi Andrew.. I agree, George could have paid " whatever the price". That still makes it hard, especially when he was going to turn around and sell.. The cycle could have gone on and I credit George for not selling them. I would let them go ( sell them) as noids tho.

So frustrating..

Take care,

Laura

This post was edited by loveplants2 on Sun, Jun 2, 13 at 21:07

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 4:36PM
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jandey1(TX8)

George, I agree with Kristopher about selling them as "Mystery" plants. They're healthy and rooted and a lot better than the PSA customers can find at their average nursery or big box store. Let it be a fun surprise for them, and get your money back out of the cuttings.

I've seen more experienced growers than Derrick mis-name their plants, even some of our Hawaiian favorites. I don't believe it's intentional but he should at least admit the possibility of mistakes and re-assess how he labels his cuttings.

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 8:26PM
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citizen_insane

Thanks Jen. They are blooming though so I cannot name them mystery. Maybe I should called them 'NOID Hilo Red'
George

    Bookmark   June 2, 2013 at 11:45PM
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Andrew Scott

Hi Jen. My only concern is that I have heard from a lot and I mean A LOT of people that have said the same thing. They said that Derrick stands by his varieties and that they are sold correctly ID. Everybody can make a mistake but when you are hearing(and I won't give names)20-30 people had the same problems, I have to wonder. I just don't want to see anyone here getting burned.

Andrew

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 12:42AM
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jandey1(TX8)

Andrew, I hear ya. We spend so much time researching and know exactly what we want, and should get just that when we order it. He'll have to change his business practices if he gets a bad reputation.

George, if that "Hilo Beauty" is fragrant, I'll take it, LOL! I'll come by on Saturday. See you then.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 9:24AM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

George, I'm so sorry to hear this. I was happy with cuttings that I got from Derrick. But they may not bloom for me for a year or two (or more!) and then it will be too late to contact the seller if they're wrong, I suppose.

This happens with other plants too. Epiphyllums for example. You buy marked cuttings, but it takes years for bloom.

Unless you are growing known varieities yourself and taking the cuttings yourself, you really are at the mercy of your supplier.

It certainly puts into question the reputation of growers. Thanks for speaking up here.

I do not know what you'll do with all your rooted cuttings, but since space is always at a premium for us, I'd let them bloom first, decide what it 'could be', then label as 'un-named variety, but looks similar to....'. And of course, you sell them cheaper. :-(

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 10:38AM
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citizen_insane

Jen,
it does not have a strong smell. I will give you one for free if you want it.
George

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 11:43AM
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kt2fl(okla z7)

Add me to the list of people who are disappointed when his plants don't bloom true to their names. I don't know what method Derrick uses to ID his plants. That's why I haven't ordered his "assumed" PSA registered cultivars anymore.

George,

It's nice that those plants you got from Derrick are blooming, people will likely buy them even though they're NOIDs.

Kenny

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 12:38PM
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tdogdad(Zone 9)

George- FYI a Jeannie Moragne and a Kauka Wilder can look exactly the same like your picture. The scent is the give away. Jeannie has a rose/peach scent while KW has a Hawaiian Tropic suntan lotion scent. Jeannie is also very sensitive to temperature and humidity and can give off white (cold) flowers, yellow (cool), orange(mild) and red (hot) flowers on the same plant. Your picture is what mine look like in hot humid weather. Also Jean or Jean Sr is not at all the same (although sold as) and is a pink tulip shaped flower. Most people get Jeannie not Jeans. A young plant may have smaller flowers than a mature one. I have three mature plants and see variations in all.

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This is the Jean or Jean Sr.

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    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 12:40PM
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citizen_insane

Hey Bill, I got three Jeannie Moragne Jr and I know what the flower looks like. What Derrick send me as Jean Moragne is not pink; I cannot tell it apart from the Kauka Wilder. Your Jean Maragne is pink, his is bright red and yellow.

George

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 1:07PM
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moonie_57

A couple of days ago I had told Freak that I did not think my GS was in fact, GS, because the blooms were fading to white. But the last couple of days the blooms are getting brighter with more pink and not fading as much. I'm so up on the air on this with it being such a young'un. I do want to reiterate that this cutting did not come from Derrick.

Concerning those cuttings that I did purchase from Derrick, I am upset with what I have been reading around the WWW. None of the cuttings I got from him have bloomed, or even have inflo's, so it will be some time before I'll be able to judge for myself.

Bill - I had seen that photo of Bud's tree before but thank you for posting again. If only my deepest wishes would come true I would be growing something just as amazing. In North Carolina. Yeah, right! LOL

I was also studying your GS inflos. It looks like some of them fade to white like mine were doing. But, it also looks as if the very eye is rather orangey. Mine aren't. I just don't know.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 8:36PM
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tdogdad(Zone 9)

George. Yours is not a Jean. However, like I said, Jeannie and Kauka Wilder can look exactly like your picture. The scent is the main way to tell.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 10:13PM
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citizen_insane

Bill Jeannie Moragne has that characteristic flower form that no other plumeria has. It stands out and you cannot confuse it for Kauka Wilder. Besides, Derrick told me that his Jeannie Moragne tree is small and that is why he has not been selling cuttings of it. It is highly unlikely he sent me Jeannie Moragne. I have about 6 Kauka Wilder and 6 Jean Moragne form Derrick. They are all blooming. They are all identical and cannot tell which is which without looking at the tags.
George

    Bookmark   June 3, 2013 at 11:09PM
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tdogdad(Zone 9)

George- perhaps you could post some pictures of your known Jeannie Moragnes so I can see what you are seeing (characteristic flower form that no other plumeria has) . I am not sure what you are describing and would like to see. Thanks Bill

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 12:26PM
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citizen_insane

Hi Bill,
here is my Jeannie Moragne. It has pointed petals that stand up (they are stiff).

Here is Kauka Wilder. Look at the tips of the petals. They are round and like a cup. The petals are also narrower than Jeannie. Quite a difference from Jeannie.

Also Kauka Wilder is a 3" flower whereas Jeannie Moragne is 4"+.

George

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 2:52PM
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citizen_insane

And yet another wrong cutting. I bought 5 India cuttings from Derrick. Three just bloom. This one of them (all identical).

This is a recent picture of my India I have for many years,

This is a comparison of the stems: Derrick on left, mine on right,

You see India is a robust grower with fat branches. Derrick's India has thin branches. There is no way what Derrick send me is India. It looks like Kimo. Kimo has thin branches and the petals are rounded, like Derrick's India. Here is a picture of Kimo I have.

The flower also smells like Kimo. It does not have the vining that India has either. There is no doubt in my mind that what he send me as India is really Kimo. I was suspicious about it from day one because all the cuttings had thin branches.

No telling what you going to get when you order from Derrick.

George

This post was edited by Citizen_Insane on Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 20:32

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 8:27PM
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tdogdad(Zone 9)

thanks for the pictures George. As my dad would say, "you learn something new every day." Thanks. BTW your India looks like mine and the one you bought does look like Kimo.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2013 at 12:08AM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

Hey George, have you gotten even ONE variety from Derrick that looks correct?

    Bookmark   June 5, 2013 at 1:31PM
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Andrew Scott

I guess I was lucky to get one that was actually what it was supposed to be...I was sent a very nice Celadine as a gift and I did get Celadine.

Derrick seemed like such a nice genuine person but to be doing this to so many people...WTF! I had been wanting to bring this up for a while but thought against it until George brought it up.

I just don't want anyone else not getting what they paid for.

Andrew

    Bookmark   June 5, 2013 at 2:59PM
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citizen_insane

Dave I got a few that are right like Dean Conklin, Nebel's Gold, and Samoan Fluff. Some have not bloomed yet.

George

    Bookmark   June 5, 2013 at 5:56PM
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texasplum(8)

don't like to hear this! just received 30 cuttings from derrick... hope they turn out to be the right ones...

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 11:45PM
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jardineria(9)

I don't like hearing this either, but since I'm such a noob to Plumies, I was overwhelmed when I got 23 cuttings from him instead of the 14 I ordered. But I also went to 1-stop-aloha, or rather my sister did, and got the 9 i truly wanted to start with already rooted there. Most of my plumies are going to make my 73 year old dad a hawaiin forest in his corpus christi backyard anyway, so all he wants is color and as long as its pink, yellow or a combo of this with white, he's a happy lark.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2013 at 6:27AM
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