buyer beware bogus 'pink parfait' stolen pics

freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)June 20, 2012

Ok my question is has anyone purchased a "PINK PARFAIT" from "Just P" in Florida? I was checking out their website and FB page and noticed that the pic of a plumeria they label in "QUOTATION MARKS" as "Pink Parfait" is MY PICTURE of my Red Dusk which they stole and are using without my permission that I purchased from Sonia aka Lola's mom in 2006. I had posted the pics way back on MPG and on GW in 2007, I re-posted the pics again on a GW thread labeled " Best way to root a Singapore" on 6/27/2009 where I was discussing water rooting .

Here is a link to the thread that I saved as a clipping:

http://clippings.gardenweb.com/clippings/?msg=Saved%20changes%20to%20RE%3A%20Best%20way%20to%20root%20a%20Singapore%3F%20%28Follow-Up%20%238%29.%20Return%20to%20the%20%3Ca%20href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fforums.gardenweb.com%2Fforums%2Fplumeria%2F%22%20class%3D%22redtext%22%3EPlumeria%3C%2Fa%3E%20Forum.&alias=freak4plumeria&gwc_mode=list

The picture that JUST P. stole was the 2nd inflo pic , you can see the bricks that make up the column that the wrought Iron sections are attached to along with other pics taken at different angles and stages of the inflo. If you look at JUST P�s Facebook posting for the "Pink Parfait" and the date of the post 04/08/2011 they are stating that "the Pink Parfait and Apricot hybrids will be available in about 3 weeks. Coming in from South Africa." along with my stolen picture . Here is the link to the FB posting and pic:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=200582993315771&set=a.198090653565005.56074.133409376699800&type=1&theater

For those of you who do not have a FB account I have a print screen capture of the FB page �Again notice the date of the post !

>

Here is a print screen capture of their own website (can not post the link to their site as they are blocked by GW.)

So again has anyone purchased a "Pink Parfait" from Just P and if so what do your blooms look like as the Red Dusk came from Maui and not South Africa and is not commercially available?

Basically if you have to steal pictures of inflos then you do not have the plant which is FRAUD/Bait and Switch. If this was an Ebay seller I would not be shocked but allegedly this is a reputable seller, or was. I also saw another pic on Just Plumeria site that they stole from MPG that belongs to Jennifer of a plant on her back porch blooming. Basically BUYER BEWARE with Just P!!!!

PS: JUST P. is an abbreviation as GW has blocked their business name for spamming...

Here is a link that might be useful: My 2009 Post and Pics

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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Hey James,

That really stinks. I now understand why so many people put thier names on the pics for this reason.

Is there anything you can do?

Making this known here will difinetely help get the name out there for othere to see, which will help...

It's to bad that someone cant take their own pics instead of relying of others to "take" theirs...

Im sorry this happened to you...i know how beautiful your Plumeria are I am sure it really bothers you too!

Have you contacted them?

Take care James

Laura

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 9:15AM
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Andrew Scott

Good morning James and Laura!

James,
I agree with Laura, and if this seller was legit and reputable, they would have no need for stealing someone elses pictures. Do you copyright them? I know some people do that. BTW...Laura I think that would be the only way James could do something about that.

Sorry this happened to you but thanks for bringing it everyone's attention here!

Andrew

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 9:39AM
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joanr(8bTX)

OMG, I was going to order this plumeris from them because it is just beautiful but I had not to date. Now I am sooooo glad I didn't because there is no telling what I would have received.

I admit I have copied pictures of what I bought from the seller's site but just so I know what my cutting should look like once it blooms. They have only been for my use and I would not dream of using them to sell a plant. Once my plant blooms, I delete the seller's pic and use mine for my database. And usually the pic has their name all over it but that is okay since it is only for a reference.

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by doing that.

Joan

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 9:43AM
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kt2fl(okla z7)

Hi James,

You should report them to Facebook as Just P. is violating their terms of service.

Facebook's Statement of Rights and Responsibilities

Under Safety - 10. You will not use Facebook to do anything unlawful, misleading, malicious, or discriminatory.

and Protecting Other People's Rights - 1. You will not post content or take any action on Facebook that infringes or violates someone else's rights or otherwise violates the law.

You can't speak for MPG because we don't know if they have permission from Jennifer to use her photos but you can tell Facebook what you posted here.

Hopefully Facebook will take some actions on Just P. for their nuisance.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 9:47AM
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the_first_kms2(8/9)

It depends how you posted it to the forum(s) but you may have given away "all/some/none" of your rights. You should contact them and either demand removal or payment for use.

I think letting our community know is appropriate. However I would encourage you to first attempt to settle the rights issue with them before doing much else.

First error of categorizing the plant wrong says what it says. Buyers beware of inaccuracies and sellers beware of your reputation. Second error of using your property without permission; They should be given the opportunity to correct their error. It may be an oversight by a junior or inexperienced person. If they knowingly use your photos after that point without your permission then everyone can read in between the lines on that.

I attached a lighthearted flow chart which our digital media guys use as a rule of thumb when dealing with images online. I hope it shows well and helps.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 10:45AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Thanks for the support :)

KMS2 there are sooo many sellers on Ebay and other places that use stolen or photoshopped pics to misrepresent plumies. I personally have lost several thousand dollars on fraudulent plumerias over the many years. The funny thing and no offense meant to the people in Florida but a lot of the bogus plumerias I have gotten came from cottage industry sellers (NOT LEGIT NURSERIES LIKE FC, BBB or EXOTIC) in Florida so it personally I get really upset when I see a seller using a pic of something that they do not have. If this were an Ebay seller from Thailand I would not be shocked but this is a business in Florida who should know better thus the warning posts. Its more about them selling something they do not have a legit picture for then the pic itself.

Well Just P just deleted the FB post with the pic after a person who was not me posted about the pic they were using was Red Dusk and not Pink Parfait. Just P responded to the persons post stating that the pic came from their South African supplier and they have not ordered from him in 8 months, but yet they still offer all the supposed So African suppliers varieties on their website. The funny thing is JP is trying to scapegoat the blame on some mysterious seller but the funny thing is I see a stolen picture from Jennifer from MPGs house on their FB page also
Here is he Print Screen capture of the pic as I am sure they will delete this post/pic off their FB also now that I pointed it out.

Back in around 2004 I asked Jennifer about the plumie in the pic and you can also see their white plastic tag with green twist tie they use on all their plumies they sell.
So much for the bogus excuses from Just P...So dishonest.
I post the link to Jennifers pic on her site that Just P is using and the pic has been there on MPG forever.

Basically BUYER BEWARE!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: MPG Pic that was stolen

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 12:26PM
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Minderella(9 Lake County FL)

This makes me worried because my Lani's beauty cutting was bought from JustP. I am now wondering if it is Lani's beauty but I guess I will have to wait till it blooms next year.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 1:01PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Minderella
Lanis Beauty is gorgeous and very readily available. I do believe you probably have a Lanis B.

Laura
Where did you get your apricot from was it from Just P??

Joanr
I also have saved sellers pics of plants I have bought from them for reference sake. So you should not have an issue with copying pics as long as they are for personal use. The issue is when you steal pics to use to sale items. If you ask the pictures owners and they give you permission to use their pics to sell or at the least give them credit for the pic, or if you just have a liability statement saying that you are using a picture from Gardenweb, MPG, etc., then I think that also ok as you are not trying to misrepresent something you are selling. The issue is when a seller uses a pic that does not belong and is of a totally different item to sell a product that they have which god only knows what it will be, to me that is dishonest and fraud.

K2fl

Thanks for the info regarding FB :) The issue with FB, EBAY and other sites is it takes forever for them to do anything about an issue and then they also make the person who is reporting a complaint jump through hoops to even start the process.. Thanks for the 411

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 1:50PM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

Wow thanks for the warning. That's so wrong on all levels! I don't like that at all. So far I have only bought from reliable sources that you guys suggested here. Glad someone is watching out for us!

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 2:44PM
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nativec

Thank you for warning us! I have the images of your Red Dusk pic's burned into my memory from 2009. So so lovely! It's unfortunate to see plumeria dealers behaving so unethically.

Nicole

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 6:11PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Hey James,

I purchased my Apricot from Fuzzy. (Bloomingplumerias)

Hopefully, they will be a little more "careful" when they decide to post pictures that are not theirs. People have "eyes" everywhere and one can certainly tell when it is "Your" pic. I could spot one of mine too! It really does bother me that someone would think to post a pic that they would use as one of there own...

Not good...

Take Care James!!!

Laura

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 9:18PM
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musaboru(Inland Calif.)

I've noticed many wholesalers of plants will supply "stock" photos to nurseries which are then used in their online retail catalogs and websites. Often, these "stock" photos may come from the hybdridizer with our without their permission. And of course, there's nothing to stop wholesalers from grabbing pics from online photo albums or discussion boards and passing it off as their own and sending it to their customers (the mail order nurseries).
Now, I'm not trying to defend 'Just P' as it is every company's legal responsibility to verify the license of any photo supplied to them by a wholesaler. But 'Just P' could have been supplied these photos from the wholesaler and used them without regard to who actually owns the intellectual property. It's still their responsibility to ask for the image license from the wholesaler/supplier so that they can post the images on their website with the accompanying license information.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 11:37PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Musaboru,
I agree with what you posted in a lot of cases. In the case of Just P they acted very suspiciously after they were made aware that someone was calling them out regarding using a stolen picture. Right after a person posted on their FB wall telling them that they had seen the picture on GW and MPG before Just P posted a response stating "they were using the suppliers pic " and blamed him claiming "they had no knowledge that the pic was stolen and that they have not purchased from that suppler in over 8 mon." Well if Just P has not purchased from the supplier in over 8 MONs then they must be selling some really OLD 8 MONs plus old cuttings since they still have the Pink Parfait listed for sale and STILL USING my pic of Red Dusk as their image for Pink Parfait as of 9 19pm even after posting excuses on Daves G Watchdog clamming innocence. Right after Just P posted their response they deleted the whole thread including the pic.
That was kind of SUSPECT, but what made it really SKETCHY was when I pointed out on GW that they were using a STOLEN pic again on their FB page from MPG that was of newly rooted flowering plumie in a pot that Jennifer had on her porch , they then deleted that FB post and pic also which tells me that either they monitor GW or someone is giving them a heads up which is fine. The funny thing is there are Print Screens of the posts and pics before they deleted them, thus the purpose of me grabbing print screens and posting as I had a feeling they would do something sketchy like alter or delete their post which they did�SHADY.
Again if Just P were not aware and innocent before the post and notifications then after being made aware you would think if they were ETHICAL OR INNOCENT they would remove the Red Dusk picture they are using as "Pink Parfait" from their website. Everything action Just P has taken actually proves to me they are UNETHICAL and DISHONEST, you make your bed you lie in it. I am just pointing out the facts and discrepancies. The people we should all feel sorry for are the people who wasted their hard earned money and plumie budgets buying "Pink Parfait" as god knows what they actually have?? Again I have lost thousands of dollars on fraudulent plumie deals where I waited in some cases 3yrs for the plant to bloom only to find out I WASTED my TIME, MONEY and precious SPACE on a junker or repeat plumie. I just want people to avoid the frustration and stress of buying something that they saw a picture of and then have it bloom something else.

So again Musa I do agree with your post in SOME CASES, but based on the actions of Just P your post does not apply to them but thanks for your sentiment.

Also I am including Print Screens of the postings on DGarden Watchdog where you can read Just P�s response and my comment back to them with no other response from them.

DGWD Just P Response to review:

My review and Update to their respose:

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 1:08AM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

I agree with you Freak. Their reactions are indeed suspiscious!

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 1:34AM
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musaboru(Inland Calif.)

Freak, I see what you're saying. It's unfortunate such things still happen, especially with Tin-Eye and Google's Image search (where you can upload or link a picture to check for duplicates or other versions on the web).

You got me thinking why doesn't the PSA start a program such as the 'Truly Named' program by the International Water Gardening Society. Check it out here: http://www.watergardenersinternational.org/certification/main.html

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 2:47AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Musa,
The easiest and honorable/ethical thing would be for who ever wanted to use a pic to just state that the pic was not theirs or give credit to whomever or where ever they got it from, at least their integrity would not be in question or jeopardized then. Again to me its not the issue of using a found photo but that it was used to sell or represent something the seller did not have which is basically a Bait and Switch.
If Just P had followed the above suggestion there would not be an issue with their credibility or ethics as everyone would have known that the pic was not theirs and this whole issue would be a non issue.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 3:14AM
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TruNorth7(8b (SF Bay Area))

James-
That's so uncool. Thanks for the heads up. I'm so glad that this forum is available so we can help each other out. I am really skeptical about buying plants online to begin with, and it's great to know who NOT to buy from. At least they took it down, and it's good you warned people on DG Watchdog too (love that tool!!!)

kms- That chart cracked me up! I saved that (for personal use, of course) for when I need a laugh.

I wish I had watermarked that Divine photo I posted the other day...

Rachel

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 6:42PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Rachel Thanks!!
Actually it is best to water mark all your pics. If you look at my orginal thread from 2009 (Link listed on first post) Just P used the un-watermaked pic. The other pic I had which was of Red Dusk later on in the season was watermarked. Even though the pics where on the same thread Just P didnt bother with the Pic with the prettier inflo that was water marked and that proves water marking a pic works.
Actually Just P is STILL USING the pic on their website to sell, they only removed the picture from their Facebook page..lol So basically if they were ethical and it were a mistake they would have removed it by now, but I guess they still need it to DEFRAUD people, or what would they use to sell their "Pink Parfait" with??? LOL

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 8:28PM
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moonie_57

Thanks for putting the word out. I can see how they would mistakenly use ONE photo mistakenly, but two is very suspicious. It's a shame.

BTW, is Lola's mom the same as Lola's Garden?

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 9:58PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Moonie,
No Sonia is Lola's Mom on MPG but not Lola's Garden.
I believe Lola's Gardens not in So Cal.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 2:27AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Just wanted to say that Just P has just removed the Pink Parfait from their website, so I guess they decided not to sell it anymore.... I hope they didnt have a lot of cuttings or plants left. Will be interesting to see since the 2012 plumie season is just starting to see if they have any "NEW INTRODUCTIONS" that might be pink or pink parfait like..lol

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 3:05PM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

Good job Freak! At the very least it will make them more responsible with the info they posted or cuttings they are selling. I have been scammed a few times myself on Ebay due to stolen pictures so I can appreciate where you're coming from. :)

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 5:21PM
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tdogdad(Zone 9)

James, you have every right to express your concerns. This is fraud because the seller is showing something that is probably not what he is selling. You and I have had so may pictures stolen and used to sell who knows what. Pretty pictures sell to addicts but there is nothing sadder than finding your cutting from that pretty picture is a mediocre flower and it happens to anyone in this business long enough. I am sure this is the case for you more than me because of your extensive purchases over decades. I once gave someone a G.S. that turned out to be a Lani, which was a step up in my book- but I gave them a G.S. later. Sometimes labels blow away or break and you just wonder what that plant is. But intentionally misrepresenting someone else's picture as that of your plant is fraud and ranks with breaking/stealing branches from other's plant.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2012 at 8:20PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Bill,

I agree with you 100 percent! The only people who have Red Dusk thus far is Sonia who found the plant and brought it to So Cal, Gabby and myself....and oh ya the person who stole my original plant of it from my patch (pot and all), it was the plant I took the pic of RD from. Gabby was nice enough to do a trade a cutting of Golden Pagoda for a cutting of Red Dusk from her tree as I believe Sonias plant died. Well Sonias in Maui now so there maybe more RD on its way back....lol Thanks for the support :)

    Bookmark   June 24, 2012 at 5:31PM
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