Palm Identification

DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)October 27, 2012

Howdy Forum...

I am new to this palm thing. I have two of these palms in the landscape (they were present when we purchased the home 2 and 1/2 years ago). They have grown alot. Is it a date palm? And if it is which one? How fast do they grow? I am wondering if it needs to be transplanted since it is getting quite large. Any special care instructions I should be adhering to?

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subtropix

Yes, it's a Date Palm. Not sure of the variety. At first, I thought Phoenix canariensis, but your palms leaves have more silver/blue to them. So, I wonder if it is either True Date P. dactylifera or silvestris. Still, coud be canariensis, and the are MASSIVE palms!! It is in the ground, no? Why transplant?

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 10:22PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

Thanks. This is the other palm, the one that needs to be transplanted. It is growing right under the mesquite tree.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 10:30PM
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ericthehurdler(NOR CAL 9a)

It is a funky spot to have a Canary island date palm. You should probably replant the palm from under the mesquite tree to somewhere with more overhead space. CIDP get very tall and grow moderately fast. Very nice looking place you got though.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 10:50PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

yah, we did not do the original planting. Only recently did I realize these things are going to grow large. The one being moved is under the canopy of the mesquite tree. I had no idea they were date palms. Edible fruit? I will post another picture of the one that is not being moved for perhaps better species identification. Thanks.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 11:06PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

picture

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 11:09PM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

Hi
You should definitely move the one under the tree. Bet it's ging to be quite a chore as the roots are probably entangled. They also resent transplanting. The other is probably too close to the house but will get by. I'm guessing you live in the dry parts of california?? Then you will get fruits. People always plant palms in the wrong place for some reasonlol Fantastic landscape plan though the usual fault of too close together lol Good luck

gary

    Bookmark   October 28, 2012 at 5:15AM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

In progress

    Bookmark   October 28, 2012 at 9:02PM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

WOW
You moved it already!! Must not have been as entangled as you'd think?? Would have put it further from the house as that sure looks like a canary. Ginormous in every respect . Good luck with it and tell us how it took to transplanting ?? gary

    Bookmark   October 29, 2012 at 4:20AM
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steve0910

Looks like Phoenix sylvestris. Nice ones.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2012 at 8:58AM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

OK Forum....
Phoenix sylvestris or Phoenix canariensis???????
I am sure one of you experts can be definitive. Maybe? Or give me some pointers to help me determine which they are. Likely only academic, but I would like to definitively identify. Thanks.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2012 at 10:17PM
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ericthehurdler(NOR CAL 9a)

Im no expert but im positive that its a caneriensis. Ive seen enough of the 2 specie to differentiate. The color of the leaf base as a more yellow green is a give away. Also the girth of that trunk is a bit big for a sylvestris.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2012 at 10:29PM
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catkim(San Diego 10/24)

I would have guessed P. sylvestris because the fronds are more compact, coarse, and silvery than P. canariensis I am used to seeing. Eric's point about the girth of the trunk well taken. But it could even be a hybrid. Phoenix are notorious natural hybridizers.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 3:22PM
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steve0910

Let's try this:

photo 1) sylvestris
photo 2) can't see well but habit looks like sylvestris
photo 3) sylvestris (same plant as photo 1??)
photo 4) tied up sylvestris, untied (same as 1&3) sylvestris
photo 5) canariensis

That's my best shot.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 1:48PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

Thanks to everyone so far.
Photos 2 and 5 are the same palm, taken before transplanting. Photos 1 and 3 are of the 2nd palm that exactly resembles the one being moved. Both are the same species. The one that is transplanted is slightly smaller because of its decrease of sunshine by being under the mesquite, thus the primary reason for moving to another location. Photo 4 is the same palm as photo 2 and 5, after transplanting. The palm behind it is it's larger twin. I believe there is some color deficiency in the photos. Photo 5 is in my opinion the truest reproduction of color. From what I understand the color of the fronds is a big determining factor. These palms have fronds that are a dark green in real life. They also very much look like a pineapple in appearance, thus P. canariensis has moved to the top of the list. The picture posted with this message is a copied picture that is identified as P. canariensis. Looks pretty similar.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 4:30PM
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theseventhlegend

My best guess is a Canary. The leaves are flat, trunk is thick and greener. Sylvestris tend to have a more "bushier" branch (like a foxtail) but your Canary may also have some hybrid in it.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2012 at 12:38PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

We were at the house this past weekend and I took a couple of additional pictures to see if it helps anyone make a decision on the species of date palm. As I have noted, I also am leaning towards the Canary Island, but a hybrid is certainly possible. Thanks to everyone for their opinion. The transplanted palm appears to be doing well. Throwing alot of water at it currently. Would hate to loose it, but had no choice but to move it.

    Bookmark   November 12, 2012 at 2:20PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

close up

    Bookmark   November 12, 2012 at 2:22PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

another

    Bookmark   November 12, 2012 at 2:23PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

The transplanted palm did not make it. I knew it would be difficult, but thought it worth a try anyway. Replaced it with a potted date palm purchased from Lowes. Only $109 and seemed well worth it for its size.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2013 at 3:02PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

New palm.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2013 at 3:04PM
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islandbreeze

That's an excellent deal at $109. Which variety is it? Lol might want to hold onto the tag...

As for the two original dates, I would guess they're hybrids between sylvestris and canary island, especially because no one seems sure of one or the other.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2013 at 6:27PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)
    Bookmark   April 14, 2013 at 7:32PM
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DocHollywood 9b Central Tucson(USDA 9b)

Update.
The Canary Island Date Palm has become well established.
This picture was taken in September 2014. Has been in the ground 1 and 1/2 years now. Good growth.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2014 at 11:04PM
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shenue(z7 MD)

Beautiful. So glad it has done well for you!

    Bookmark   October 11, 2014 at 10:24AM
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softmentor(z9/sunset13 CA desert)

sorry I'm late to the party. Just saw this post. A quick tip on planting these larger palms. #1 reason for them to fail is air pockets in the soil. You can use a garden hose to "tunnel" down into the fill soil where you filled in around the palm and get the soil really muddy. Once it is good and muddy wet all around, shake the palm so that it settles into the hole and settles the mud in around the roots. You will have to put some shoulder into it with that size palm. You will see air bubbles rising out of the mud as it settles in. Keep adding water as you shake it in. make sure you don't make the last shake with the mud too dry, or you will actually open a pocket next to the root ball.
If you don't want to do the shake thing, at least poke the hose in and then plunge it in and out until you can see that the mud is settling in. Then shorten your strokes bit by bit and let the water and mud fill in the hole you made with the hose. works almost as well.
main thing is you want to be sure there is no air pocket under the root ball or on one of the sides.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2014 at 12:40PM
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