mexicans no good senor

inkognitoMay 23, 2010

We often see an emphasis on what is bad about Mexico and Mexicans and how bad it is to have those guys around, drugs and that. The Mexican stone workers I saw last week were an example of not only workmanship, meaning a pride in ones work, but they had an aesthetic appreciation of what they were doing.

I am linking to a picture of Salma Hayeck because she is not only a good actor but also beautiful and a mother and Mexican.

well the link thing didn't work but..

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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

So what's all that mean? So what? Very few, if any, have voiced opinions against Mexicans. YOU have tried to make it all about that. But it's not. In fact, I told a very lovely Canadian person in another thread that my reaction is the same for all the Canadians here illegally, as well, when she asked. If someone's here illegally, they need to leave, or be forcefully removed. End of story.

But that DOES include Mexicans, too. You know, the ones coming over here for an honest day's work, like MS-13, the Mexican Mafia, Latin Kings, just to name a few of many-- you know those looking to put in an honest hard day's labor for a decent wage for their families.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 5:15PM
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inkognito

Bill once again your cayones (?) speak for you. Have you any idea how patronizing "very lovely Canadian person" is, for instance?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 5:27PM
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paulines(New England)

No worse than you making Salma Hayeck the poster child for all folks of Mexican descent... and fwiw, I believe Ms Hayeck is a citizen, so your point is??????

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 6:46PM
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inkognito

My point is Pauline that, as you say, choosing one person to represent a whole nation of people is somewhat naive. Are we suspicious because 'they' are all into drugs or are we all glad to see 'them' if they look like Salma?

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 6:58PM
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sunnyd_2008

You're funny ink.
I think even selma would have an issue with some illegal riding around with no license in a 4000lb potential death machine.
No one has an issue with Mexicans it's illegals they have an issue with......

Here is a link that might be useful: victims of illegals

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 7:49PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

Have you any idea how patronizing "very lovely Canadian person" is, for instance?

Quite frankly, buckwheat, I don't give a rats butt what you think of me. The person I said that about knows what I think of her, and knows that she's one person in here I'd NEVER patronize, for any reason.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 8:01PM
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adoptedbyhounds

Not sure why you think we need to see a picture of Salma Hayek, since she is not an illegal alien, criminal, drunk driver, thief, rapist, hit and run driver, or drug dealer. She probably pays more in taxes than most of us earn in five years or more, so she puts no burden on any community. In short, she has nothing in common with the dangerous criminals progressives insist are entitled to live, roam and hide among us, no questions asked.

Here's why we have laws against illegal immigration.

Here is a link that might be useful: Posterboy

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 8:15PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Hey! Great! We have another OP on the career criminal who happens to be Mexican, a Mexican national, an illegal alien, and owner of at least 30 aliases. He is the poster boy for all those tens of millions of criminal posing as illegal aliens.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 8:35PM
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cait1

It's 'cojones', Ink.

Actually, I don't remember anyone saying Mexicans are 'no good'. And Mexico is second on my list of the most beautiful countries I've ever been to, America being the first but I think I'll allow myself that bias.

My experience with Mexicans in Mexico has always been positive. They are a spirited, artistic culture. If you want to understand color, you go to either Mexico or India because both those countries are color-filled - and it just makes you happy to see all those lively colors all around. They're a people steeped in a rich and fascinated history.

The shame for them is that they apparently can't elect a government that will further enrich them. There are twisted Mex-Americans out there who believe that by taking back parts of California, AZ, NM, Texas and beyond, they can create the 'Nation of Aztlan' and somehow be better off. Ridiculous! They'd just get swooped upon my the very same Mex govt they're trying to escape from or continue with corrupt governing.

You may pin part of the problem of the Mexican govt on American policies - one being to allow the illegal migration - but the basic fault lies with the Mexican people who for reasons I don't know of, can not rally together to build a better Mex govt. They've always had a pretty volitile political history. Instead of running away and becoming an outlaw people, they should band together in their own country, Mexico, and create the kind of government every decent, hard working people deserve.

Aside from the linked video below, I found this one to be interesting. A 2008 rally in CA that probably received no coverage by the MSM:

video- Blacks rise up against illegal alien invasion

Here is a link that might be useful: Nation of Aztlan

    Bookmark   May 23, 2010 at 9:42PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

but the basic fault lies with the Mexican people who for reasons I don't know of, can not rally together to build a better Mex govt.

That's the last thing the U.S. wants. No one has yet forgiven Laro Cárdenas for nationalizing the petroleum industry. And the U.S. press was/is sooo supportive of the EZLN and Subcomandante Marcos. Mexico as it is now structured suits the U.S. just fine. The State Department will continue to recognize the elections stolen from the PRD.

Can you imagine the reaction of the U.S. if Mexico were to join ALBA and ditch NAFTA?

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 12:45AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Wonder why so much ignorance about Mexico, including history, culture, and the many ways the US keeps the country destabilized for our advantages. Some of this ignorance is willful arising out of bigotry and the attitude that "those people" are incapable of governing themselves and raising up the general population. They hate us for our freedoms and our economic power which we earned through hard work and doing God's work in taming this Great Nation.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 4:02AM
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pnbrown

Very amusing where the latino senator tells his white cognates that he works hard on affirmative action because the whites are going to need it. Love that. Might well be true, also. Interesting that 'Aztlan' is pronounced like C.S.Lewis' 'Aslan' the God-lion. Coincidence? Probably.

One would think that people would realize that ethnicity and culture frequently if not usually overlap borders. The mexican/aztlan situation is a classic case. That territory was spanish-speaking long before the english-speakers came and they still predominate. The hair-splitting over whether the spanish-speakers in question are legal or illegal are pointless IMO. They simply are.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 7:19AM
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jodik_gw

You got it, Nancy... everyone is too busy being horrified at the criminal held up as representative of what's wrong with the situation... no one even mentioned why we have this situation in the first place.

Other countries are ok as vacation spots, I guess... the US will allow them their tourist dollars... but we certainly don't want them all to have and run their own utilities and resources, or have stable governments and happy citizens... god forbid.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 12:09PM
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sunnyd_2008

"Hey! Great! We have another OP on the career criminal who happens to be Mexican, a Mexican national, an illegal alien, and owner of at least 30 aliases. He is the poster boy for all those tens of millions of criminal posing as illegal aliens."

Being here illegally is a crime to begin with, so why not committ another 20? It takes killing a little 3 year old boy eating an ice cream to finally be sentenced to prison........
Guess you didn't bother with the other link I provided.
Here's another......

Here is a link that might be useful: Illegal Arrested Over 12 Times Kills 3

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 1:48PM
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kwoods(Cold z7 Long Is)

Interesting "statistics" presented on this thread. How do the number of crimes committed by undocumented people compare with those committed by citizens?

They come because "someone" is willing to pay them, you figure it out.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 3:36PM
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inkognito

On a trip back to England I got into one of those pub conversations that so often leads to "Okay, name some famous Canadians then, I bet you can't" by the time you get from Alexander Graham Bell through Jim Carrey to Leonard Cohen nobody is listening anymore. Obviously going on about Selma Hayeck, who is exceptional, says no more about Mexican people than going on about a reprobate does. There are two threads and an entry on this one about a repeat offender who we are meant to see as unexceptional because he is in America illegally and is Mexican.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 5:45PM
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metaxa(Outsider)

Don't forget Celine Dion.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 5:49PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

because he is in America illegally and is Mexican.

You're half right, and it ain't the Mexican part. But that's okay-- you just keep right up in your dementia, regardless of how many times you're told that's not what it's about.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 5:57PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

And the McKenzie Brothers!

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 5:58PM
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inkognito

Oh Bill, Master please tell this (what did you call me, buckwheat?) what it is all about. Oh and 'dementia' is a another one, can you try to be civil in your attempt to explain why yours is the best way?

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 6:47PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

Shut down those employing illegals. Those who still come across, send them back when ever, wherever, however found. Shut down the border so we can monitor those who come in and out of this country. By sutting down, I don't mean closing it off as Nancy attempted to make is seem in another thread. I'm not talking about legal border crossing and commerce. I'm talking about those who try and come across illegally. Why I'm even retyping all this, I have no idea, If you haven't gotten it by now, you're not going to.

As for being civil, when in Rome...

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 7:16PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Let me give a stab at this:

There are many million transits across the land borders and probably ten times that via air and water in a day. There are 1440 minutes in a day and let's say there are 60,000 agents processing crossings and debarkation. I can't wait for Bill to describe the system to establish the purposes of such passages, check papers and visas and legal id's, search all those vehicles and ships/planes, and keep track of those entering with legal paper but late on leaving the country.

Try to describe such a system without recourse to growing a major police state.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 8:16PM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

Hey Bill, you can call me a very lovely Canadian person, I won't mind...

Have you any idea how patronizing "very lovely Canadian person" is, for instance?

Ink, where do you get the idea that "a very lovely Canadian person" is patronizing?

I personally know some very lovely American people but they don't seem to mind that I think that of them.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 8:20PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

I actually would like to hear the answer to Marshallz's question. I would also like to know how much it's going to cost to do all this.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 8:24PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

There are many million transits across the land borders and probably ten times that via air and water in a day. There are 1440 minutes in a day and let's say there are 60,000 agents processing crossings and debarkation. I can't wait for Bill to describe the system to establish the purposes of such passages, check papers and visas and legal id's, search all those vehicles and ships/planes, and keep track of those entering with legal paper but late on leaving the country.

You KNOW what my answer is to this. Patrolling our borders does not make this a police state.

HG-- I knew that. Same old same old.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 8:25PM
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inkognito

HaGar: this is an argument you can have with yourself, you obviously being a very lovely Canadian person who has missed my point by a country mile.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 8:42PM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

HG-- I knew that. Same old same old.

Apparently so.

Let's see, now you can't call me a girl because it demeaning, you can't call be a lady because it denotes class, and you can't call me a lovely person because it's patronizing.

How about "human of the female gender"? Is that sexist?

You just can't win, can you?

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 9:00PM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

HaGar: this is an argument you can have with yourself, you obviously being a very lovely Canadian person who has missed my point by a country mile.

Speaking of patronizing....

pot, kettle, black? Any of this ring a bell?

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 9:02PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"There are two threads and an entry on this one about a repeat offender who we are meant to see as unexceptional because he is in America illegally and is Mexican."

Anyone who has been paying attention knows better. It has become routine for illegal aliens to commit multiple crimes against American citizens on American soil. Everything from gang activity to rape to murder,theft, drunk driving, leaving the scene of an accident, assault, kidnapping and drug dealing take place in communities across our country every day.

Illegals are here because government allows it.

Their victims are Americans because corrupt politicians gave them access.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 9:02PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

Let's see, now you can't call me a girl because it demeaning, you can't call be a lady because it denotes class, and you can't call me a lovely person because it's patronizing.

How about "human of the female gender"? Is that sexist?

You just can't win, can you?

If someone wants to be offended, they will be, even if for someone else.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 9:33PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

"Illegals" is inherently a pejorative.

A funny thing is that most aren't from Mexico.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 10:20PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I can't wait for Bill to describe the system to establish the purposes of such passages, check papers and visas and legal id's, search all those vehicles and ships/planes, and keep track of those entering with legal paper but late on leaving the country.

I'm also interested in hearing how this will be accomplished, keeping in mind the problems in the past at the San Ysidro crossing when more inspections/controls were in place to impede the smuggling of marijuana.

Tonight's report on San Ysidro: San Ysidro, Open 24 hrs/day
5/24/2010 28 Lanes Available, At 10pm PST 35 min delay
18 lane(s) open

You can update the crossing here.

Besides the designated ports of entry for land crossings, there are harbors, and small craft harbors and marinas; any number of international, regional, and municipal airports.

Some information on the Port of Los Angeles: The Port of Los Angeles covers over three thousand hectares (over 1.7 thousand hectares of land and almost 1.3 thousand hectares of water surface). It stretches across 69 kilometers of waterfront with water depths of up to 16.2 meters. The Port of Los Angeles handles about 190 million metric tons of cargo each year. The Port of Los Angeles contains 69 container cranes, including 20 post-Panamax Plus cranes. It also contains 17 marinas with 3800 slips for recreational boats. The World Cruise Center in the Port of Los Angeles is the country's most secure cruise passenger complex.

The Port of Los Angeles contains 27 cargo terminals that handle containers, liquid and dry bulk, breakbulk, and automobiles and support 270 berths. Terminals in the Port of Los Angeles specialize in containers (8 terminals), liquid bulk cargoes (7 terminals), breakbulk (3 terminals), dry bulk (2 terminals), passengers and ferries (2 terminals), and automobiles (1 terminal). The Port of Los Angeles also has four warehouse terminals.

In 2008, the Port of Los Angeles served 2370 vessels carrying a total of 170 million metric revenue tons of cargo, including 8.3 million TEUs of containerized cargo and almost 163.4 thousand automobiles. That year, the Port of Los Angeles also welcomed 1.2 million cruise passengers.

I'd also like to see an estimate of additional personnel and equipment that will be needed for stricter enforcement... and for the plans (wishful thinking) of how this will be accomplished without impeding normal commerce.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 1:42AM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

"Illegals" is inherently a pejorative.

And that's supposed to make me feel bad that I'm putting down someone doing something wrong?

A funny thing is that most aren't from Mexico.

Which is why I've said all along, I don't care WHERE they're from. I'm not the one making this all about Mexicans.

I'm also interested in hearing how this will be accomplished, keeping in mind the problems in the past at the San Ysidro crossing when more inspections/controls were in place to impede the smuggling of marijuana.

I don't know. That's up to Customs to figure out. Chances are probably real good that it can't be done. But with the nuke sniffers and IR scanners they have, not to mention the technology that's NOT made public, that risk can be kept to a minimum. But lets say for the sake of argument it can't be done. That means we shouldn't do what we CAN?

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 5:51AM
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pnbrown

Check this morning's times for news of the verdict in the first trial of the MS-13 murders in Newark. This first defendant somehow managed to segue from illegal to legal after arriving in the US. Do we care? I don't. If he is ever released from prison he should be deported to Nicaragua.

IMO, anyone with a work ethic is welcome. Criminals need not apply (or sneak across the river).

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 6:55AM
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adoptedbyhounds

""Illegals" is inherently a pejorative."

Only to the politically correct, who prefer euphemisms to the truth.

"A funny thing is that most aren't from Mexico."

Check the title to this thread.

Most Americans don't think it's funny. Politicians deliberately left the door open for Mexicans, and now we have terrorists from middle eastern countries learning Spanish so they can blend in with Latino illegals. What a great idea! Obviously, US politicians are not the best and the brightest, a weakness criminals have exploited over and over again. Their sanctuary cities are havens for criminals. How thoughtful of politicians to provide a safe place for terrorists to hide while they plot mass murder.

For those who care, a nineteen year old "suspected" illegal alien who speaks only Spanish has been arrested for killing a four year old girl. He claims she attacked him. Her body was dumped with all the care one would give a bucket of trash.

Let the shrieking begin. Not about this crime. No, the liberal outrage will be over posting another article about another PREVENTABLE crime. Crimes by illegal aliens, you see, are so rare we shouldn't even speak of them. If these stories get out, somebody might get the idea politicians are protecting the wrong people.

Here is a link that might be useful: for those who care

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 8:22AM
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kingturtle(Zone 7 GA)

Think of all the crimes we could have prevented if the Native Americans had kept the Europeans from their illegal immigration in to North America.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 8:52AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Can you imagine the additional chaos at border crossings if our neighbors reacted to our enhanced screening by implementing their own? Who would want to spend hours waiting to cross and then wait hours to be allowed entry? In the end, some irregularities in documents could cause authorities to reject your continued passage.

Repeat that with millions of visitors.

Well, soon enough the number of potential travelers would fall along with the economies on both sides of the borders (but perhaps not the illegal economies.)

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 10:10AM
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david52 Zone 6

Not to mention alien, invasive plants and insects which are arguably costing us far more financially - in terms of combatting them, let alone the repercussions on our health and environment.

Spray them immigrant pests with neurotoxins and endocrine disrupters, by the millions of tons a year.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 10:20AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Good point, Dave. California ag industry is in constant tizzy over new pests and diseases popping up and causing serious economic losses. Meanwhile urban and suburban landscapes are being treated with these chemicals to eliminate pests before they spread to ag regions. Those damn Mexicans.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 10:32AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

That means we shouldn't do what we CAN?

You're assuming that we aren't doing enough now, as you keep repeating that we need to "close" the border. How do you know that we aren't already doing all that we CAN?

Short of inspecting every vehicle -- and there was a 35-minute wait at 10 PM last night (with 18 lanes open!) at the San Ysidro entry -- what exactly is all we CAN without disrupting commerce?

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 12:00PM
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october17(5chgo)

"A funny thing is that most aren't from Mexico."

I didn't know that. Where are they (illegals) from bboy?

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 12:18PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

You're assuming that we aren't doing enough now, as you keep repeating that we need to "close" the border. How do you know that we aren't already doing all that we CAN?

I've already, more times than I can count, suggested ways to improve what we're doing, that would either save money, or not cost any more than we're spending now, rather than spending more. And no, I'm not going to list them still again. You don't like em, so they're not worth the time to post.

I didn't know that. Where are they (illegals) from bboy?

I'm not bboy, but I'll answer that anyway. I found out this afternoon that night before last, atleast 4 of them right here in this sleepy little town were Iraqi nationals, all 4 here illegally, and all 4 on the terrorist watch list. This from the cop who pulled them over.

Not that I have the slightest idea where they came into this country, but I would surmise that they came through Canada, due to the geographic location of their capture, and only strengthens my argument that BOTH borders must be shut down with the exception of authorized crossing points.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 8:09PM
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david52 Zone 6

Obama just called for 1600 Guard troops to head down to the Arizona border and 500 million to pay for that and other border stuff, and McCain, "tough on illegal immigration" that he is now, running against a wing nut radio personality in the primary, thinks we need 6,000 guard troops for his state and even more money.

Join the national guard and spend your summers sitting around in the Arizona desert, eyes trained on the border. 118ºF, but its a dry heat.

Wonder what states they'll get them from? Wonder if the Arizona legislature will pass a law so that citizens can sue a states national guard if they don't think they're patrolling fast enough.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 8:28PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

It's about damn time. It's a good start, anyway.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 8:33PM
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october17(5chgo)

So, most of the illegals are iraqi?

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 10:30PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

That's not what I said, unless most of the illegals were in that one car the other night.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2010 at 11:06PM
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pnbrown

Dave, I'll bet ya dollars to doughnuts that if we joined the national guard we'd find ourselves in Afghanistan before Arizona. There is some sense to guarding the border, absolutely none to 'guarding' countries on other continents.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2010 at 6:35AM
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kingturtle(Zone 7 GA)

Obama just called for 1600 Guard troops to head down to the Arizona border and 500 million to pay for that and other border stuff, and McCain, "tough on illegal immigration" that he is now, running against a wing nut radio personality in the primary, thinks we need 6,000 guard troops for his state and even more money.

Obama follows another Bush policy while McCain doubles down.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2010 at 8:05AM
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david52 Zone 6

We shouldn't be glossing over the actual, physical, fact of calling up and moving 1600 or 6000 National Guard troops and all their equipment down to the Arizona desert, which is far from a hospitable environment, is going to take several months at best, they have to be trained for what ever it is they will do.

They'll be there to "back up" the Border Patrol, what ever that means, and not actually do any arrests or deportations. Meanwhile, we'll hire and train and equip more full-time border agents.

This national guard move is worthless political theater. Everybody gets to give speeches about how tough they are during the campaign. The police state expands, the pawns in the national guard leave their families and jobs and sit in the sand somewhere, in 118º heat watching the heat waves, while back home the wife hires a roofing crew to replace their leaking roof (half the men here illegally) because her husband isn't home.

There might be some intimidation factor that might temporarily dampen the illegal border crossings, but the basic underlying economic, political, and human factors that drive this vast movement of desperate people remain, as well as the economics of the drug trade.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2010 at 9:18AM
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jodik_gw

Without removing that which people cross illegally to obtain, or removing the market for that which they cross to sell, the added border guards are nothing more than wasted resources. Where's there's a will, there's a way... I concur with David... it's political theater at taxpayer expense.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2010 at 11:42AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I'll second (or third?) what David said.

The whole charade started with the AZ primary campaign.

Address the root causes and the situation will improve.

the economics of the drug trade
I've heard several talks by journalists and law enforcement in which they maintain that bribes are common practice to facilitate transit of drugs into the U.S. The amount of money that the drug cartels control is capable of corrupting an astonishing number of people and institutions, here and in Mexico.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2010 at 12:30PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"Address the root causes and the situation will improve."

Good idea, Nancy. Mexican citizens come to the US because they are desperate. Their own government isn't taking responsibility for meeting even basic needs. It still doesn't even give every child a free K-12 education. Imagine what else the poor must go without. Let the US send all the advocates lobbying for Mexican citizens to Mexico. Let them lobby the Mexican government. This is, after all, Mexico's problem. Mexico's citizens. Mexico's responsibility.

We're all tapped out in the US. Advocates should demand Mexico impose higher taxes on wealthy Mexicans, instead of complaining that US taxpayers aren't doing enough. We've done more for Mexican citizens than the Mexican government has. Enough is enough.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2010 at 3:35PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

This is, after all, Mexico's problem. Mexico's citizens. Mexico's responsibility.

Hmm, NAFTA? The unsatiable U.S. appetite for illegal drugs, U.S. recognition of two elections that were stolen from the PRD? Responsibility should be shared.

Please remember that when the U.S. has a problem with a government in Latin American, there's not even a second thought about destabilization, sabotage, employing mercenaries, etc. No official support for the EZLN -- we're arming the Mexican government. The U.S. is satisfied with the status quo in Mexico.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2010 at 3:53PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"Hmm, NAFTA?" The unsatiable U.S. appetite for illegal drugs, U.S. recognition of two elections that were stolen from the PRD? Responsibility should be shared."

Nonsense. Mexico is a sovereign country with a duty to care for it's own citizens. Mexico is not "sharing" responsibility for taking care of poor US citizens and enforce it's own laws. It's making poor Americans poorer by siphoning off jobs and resources from US citizens, and redirecting money from unauthorized workers to the Mexican economy.

As for NAFTA, Mexico is a signatory. It's not up to US taxpayers to pay for something the Mexican government agreed to. NAFTA is a creation of politicians, not something the people were demanding. If it's damaging Mexico, Mexico can get out.

As for drugs, it's not Americans lobbying for open borders that facilitate drug and human smuggling. It's not conservatives worrying about putting people in jail for drug activity. That baloney all belongs to the left, which, not surprisingly, pretends it has nothing to do with any of this.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2010 at 7:47AM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Horse feathers and possum poop

    Bookmark   May 29, 2010 at 10:01AM
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david52 Zone 6

We showed how tough we were when we sent back the refugees illegals fleeing the unspeakable drug violence.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2010 at 11:09AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Mexico is a sovereign country with a duty to care for it's own citizens.

And yet every time the PRD is poised to win an national election, the State Department jumps to recognize the stolen elections, first by PRI, and then PAN. Anyone with any reading in Mexican politics knows that the PRD has a platform that would ease immigration because of the reforms that would be instituted. Deny what you wish, but this is written history that doesn't coincide with your narrative. The U.S. supports those political parties whose policies continue to oppress the majority of Mexicans.

redirecting money from unauthorized workers to the Mexican economy

Those payments sent home are a significant part of the Mexican economy. Can you imagine what would happen if that source of revenue would evaporate? Mexico has a history of violent revolutions -- would the U.S. really want that situation again across its southern border? Instead of economic refugees, we'll be dealing with war refugees. And the U.S. wouldn't be backing the forces calling for political/economic/land reform; we'd once again be training death squads, and increasing military aid to astronomical levels. If tiny El Salvador was receiving $1,000,000 a day in military aid thirty years ago, imagine what the aid to Mexico would cost today.

There's more and more evidence coming out that the arms that the U.S. is furnishing to Mexico aren't necessarily being used against the drug cartels, but against the civilian population. (For some reason, the Sinaloa cartel seems to be excluded from the military's attacks on drug dealers.) Not exactly the model for dissuading citizens from leaving the country.

It's not up to US taxpayers to pay for something the Mexican government agreed to.

U.S. taxpayers are paying twice -- first for the agricultural subsidies to the exporters of products to Mexico, and then for the ineffective war on undocumented immigrants caused by the flood of cheap U.S. agricultural products into Mexico.

NAFTA is a creation of politicians

NAFTA was put in effect by politicians at the behest of business interests. It's class warfare, same as it always has been.

As for drugs, it's not Americans lobbying for open borders that facilitate drug and human smuggling

I agree. What drives the drug smuggling is the prohibition on drugs in the U.S. which makes the drug trade highly lucrative, and is corrupting U.S. and Mexican society up to the highest levels. If drugs were decriminalized, the profit would crash, and the smuggling would dwindle to a trickle. The amount of taxes wasted on drug interdiction is astronomical, and we still have plenty of drugs available to users. Think of how much could be saved by decriminalization. Same with human smuggling -- if our immigration policies were rationally reformed, there would be little or no profit to traffic in humans.

As far as Mexico and reforms -- do you remember the Oaxacan uprising in 2006? There were a lot of worried people on both sides of the southern border. The EZLN is still operating in Chiapas. I don't doubt that the military aid flowing south is partly to prevent a similar occurrence elsewhere in the country.

    Bookmark   May 29, 2010 at 4:35PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Fred Reed is finally back with another column, this one on the immigration issue. Sure to P some off and p others. Reminding all those conservatives that we stole half of Mexico fair and square and made instant American of many Hispanics of the time. He is for assimulation.

Seal the border, instant amnesty for those already here, so sayeth fabulous Fred.

Here is a link that might be useful: Immigration

    Bookmark   May 29, 2010 at 11:53PM
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adoptedbyhounds

Nancy, If it gives you comfort to blame America first, do what you have to do.

Meanwhile, the American people are going to do what they have to do to take their country back from politicians who agree with you.

Enforcing our laws isn't something we're going to continue to "negotiate" with pro-amnesty politicians about. They're going to be enforced one way or another. If it takes new politicians to get the job done, so be it.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2010 at 12:52PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

blame America first

If you can't refute what I wrote, you blame the messenger.

politicians who agree with you

I wish there were politicians that agreed with me. The election stolen by the PRI would never had been recognized. Guns and money wouldn't be flowing to Mexico; NGOs would be receiving funds instead.

pro-amnesty politicians

You are aware that amnesty doesn't automatically grant permanent-resident status to undocumented immigrants. There's a legal procedure to be followed before final approval. Are you familiar with IRCA passed during the Reagan Administration?

    Bookmark   May 30, 2010 at 1:44PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

the American people are going to do what they have to do to take their country back from politicians who agree with you. And the other half is going to make sure that we hold our ground so we do not devolve again into that horrid and possibly illegal and unconstitutional excuse for a government that the republicans shoved down our throats for eight years.

    Bookmark   May 30, 2010 at 2:27PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"And the other half is going to make sure that we hold our ground so we do not devolve again into that horrid and possibly illegal and unconstitutional excuse for a government that the republicans shoved down our throats for eight years."

Whatever. I don't think anywhere near "half" of the US population supports what the open borders crowd and their friends are after. Do you really think mainstream Americans want this kind of stuff for their country? I'm absolutely certain they don't.

Here is a link that might be useful: source

    Bookmark   June 1, 2010 at 3:56PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

I am absolutely that certain that "the open borders crowd and their friends" are among the same people who are playing the political games aimed at protecting many economic interests. From my reading and listening, I would throw in quite a few of those agitating to close the borders as pursuing economic and political agendas favoring more some special interests than the general welfare and security.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2010 at 9:36AM
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dicot

So let me make sure I've got this straight for the white right:

* Capital is free to move between countries: because that's how we make more wealth, please try and ignore the occasional downside, it's a rising tide ...

* Goods & resources are free to move between countries: because we need stuff and we need it now and we don't really care about how it's made as long as it's a good deal or a quality product.

* Companies are free to move between countries: because they are the engine of wealth, not labor, and displaced labor is a necessary byproduct of an adaptive free market.

* Ideas, art, movies and other intellectual concepts are free to move between countries: as long as someone gets paid for intellectual property rights:

* People's movement must be restricted: Because there are somehow different classes of people and certain types, usually dark skinned, must be denied what's available to others.

No thanks, these concepts are making a crappy world for the masses. I say it was the white elites who put CA in this financial situation, not the immigrants of any type.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2010 at 3:18PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I say it was the white elites who put CA in this financial situation, not the immigrants of any type.

A strong second from me!

    Bookmark   June 3, 2010 at 3:32PM
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demifloyd(8)

10.5 BILLION dollars a year that California spends on illegal immigrants and it's the "white elites" who put CA in this financial situation?

I would think there's enough blame to go around to people who exploit the situation as well as those who knowingly and willfully sneak into this country illegally and go to our schools and collect other benefits from taxpaying citizens.

Not all of them contribute by working, either.

    Bookmark   June 3, 2010 at 3:39PM
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clumsygrdner

If you kicked out all the illegal immigrants would the CA budget get better?

No. Because CA's debt does not come from allocation to welfare projects.

Sharona Coutts, Marc Lifsher and Michael A. Hiltzik, Coutts, a writer with ProPublica, reported from New York. Lifsher, a Times staff writer, reported from Sacramento, and staff writer Hiltzik reported from Los Angeles.
Goldman, Sachs & Co. urged some of its big clients to place investment bets against California bonds this year despite having collected millions of dollars in fees to help the state sell some of those same bonds.

The giant investment firm did not inform the office of California Treasurer Bill Lockyer that it was proposing a way for investment clients to profit from California's deepening financial misery. In Sacramento, officials said they were concerned that Goldman's strategy could raise the interest rate the state would have to pay to borrow money, thus harming taxpayers.

Or do you think they just screwed Greece?

Here is a link that might be useful: LA Times

    Bookmark   June 3, 2010 at 3:58PM
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