A brown plastic bag under the bushes

sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)May 21, 2012

OK, I was hoping I wouldn't have to post about this but no one brought it up and the other "evidence" post was already out of control, so I am starting a new one.

I read ALL of the documents released this last week concerning evidence found and recorded at the scene of the Zimmerman-Martin shooting and the reports filed by the responding officers and the autopsy reports. I also watched the videos from the 7-11. Those make things much more clear than the opinion and supposition that has been floating around. I happened to see the video again a short time ago. I watched the clerk place the can and a small box (not a bag) of candy in a brown plastic bag apparently after Treyvon indicated that he wanted the stuff in the bag. The clerk appeared to offer the bag to him first. Then I backed the video up and watched it again because it reminded me of something in the released documents.

In a report filed by a responding officer, after Treyvon's body was turned over, and the officer raised Treyvon's hoodie, he found the candy box and tea can in the pockets which interfered with raising the hoodie and sweatshirt. He removed the can and placed it on Treyvon's chest while he checked the wound. The can was left on Trevon's chest(seems awkward to me). Nothing was said about the plastic bag.

In another report, from an officer collecting evidence, a brown plastic bag was found under a bush. Nothing more was said about the bag and the report went on about other pieces of possible evidence found in and around the scene.

What happened to the bag from the 7-11? Was there something in the bag that was found under the bush? Why was it considered evidence? Most of the other items collected were self explanatory but the bag is curious to me. Does anyone want to conjecture?

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kwoods(Cold z7 Long Is)

O man! The kid was a litterer too?!

    Bookmark   May 21, 2012 at 8:28PM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

Great comment! Very insightful!

    Bookmark   May 21, 2012 at 9:16PM
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SIF: "Why was it considered evidence?"

SIF, did you mean to say why WASN'T it considered evidence? I'd like to know what, if anything, was in the bag.

    Bookmark   May 21, 2012 at 9:56PM
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I haven't received my special CSI decoder ring in the mail yet, so I can't conjecture on the subject.

    Bookmark   May 21, 2012 at 11:52PM
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Sleepless, just come out and say what you are thinking....that after the shooting Zimm then proceeded to put the bulky can/box items into Treyvon's pockets and tossed the bag. Zimm wanted it to appear that Treyvon had a concealed weapon. But Zimm forgot to remove the register receipt from the bag and left his prints on the items. Sound about right?
This isn't really a Hot Topics forum, it's just a virtual game of "Clue"

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 10:26AM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

Vgkg, LOL.

I asked for conjecture because somehow a seemingly worthless plastic bag was collected as evidence and the same or similar bag was seen to hold the all important tea and skittles in the store video. I could come up with all sorts of ideas if I wanted to make up something but logic says if it was Treyvon's bag he must have taken the stuff out of the bag for some reason. After all, it would have made a fairly good weapon with that can of tea inside if he was afraid of George. So something must have been important enough for him to discard or hide something he could have used to protect himself if he was scared.

If the bag was empty the wind could have blown it under the bush but that doesn't answer the question of why Treyvon discarded it in the first place. George's conversation on his cell phone does say Treyvon had something in his hand and it is possible it was the bag but not proven. If it was the bag, at the start of the incident, then Treyvon emptied the bag somewhere between the location of the original sighting and where the bag was found, at the location of the fight, around two corners and several hundred feet away. It must have been pretty windy.

I admit the can of tea could have been used as a cosh, but George never said and there doesn't seem to be any claim that he was threatened or hit with it. So it was never a weapon, in or out of the bag.

Clue is a fascinating game of logic but once you realize that negative responses reveal as much or more than the positive ones, it becomes too easy to win. Real life is more complicated but follows the same rules. It becomes a question of "Why the dog did not bark".

Another question for conjecture, what sound does wet grass make?

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 3:36PM
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Because everything is collected as evidence. One never knows what will be important or not. Finger prints have been taken off of tape, non-descript fibers collected, etc. The puzzle requires all of the pieces and you cannot guess which piece will matter until the end.

Now if you have your theory, put it out there. I'm not sure I am following the whole taking the stuff out of bag deal. I take things out of my bag when I want to consume them. I might shove the bag into a pocket until I happen upon a trashcan. Or, how about this for a theory, he had just taken the stuff out to consume it, and that exact moment, Zimmerman acosted him... leaving it to fall on the ground and blow under a bush. That is, his hands were full of stuff and he was unable to defend himself. Is that conjecture enough?

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 3:43PM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

Rob, then why were the can and Skittles in his pockets rather than on the ground? Surely it would take more time and concentration to put a bulky item in the pocket of a wet sweatshirt than just dropping it or holding on to it to use as a defensive weapon or projectile.

I am also curious to know where the receipt wound up. I don't remember so I'll have to look it up. Was it in Treyvon's pants pocket with his change, or in the sweatshirt pocket with the can and Skittles or was it in the bag, identifying it as relating to the items in his pockets and leading to the video at the 7-11?

Darn, one thing just leads to another, doesn't it? Oh, I think that may be part of chain of evidence, don't you think?

I don't have a theory, yet. I may have one when and if the question of what, if anything, was in the bag is answered. Question, questions, questions.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 4:17PM
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I tried! There are just too many factors which is why you hvae quesitons, quesitons, questions.


    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 4:26PM
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natal(Louisiana 8b)

Sleepless, I can see why you chose that name.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 5:26PM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

OK, I just went back over the 183 pages of the document dump and discovered I mixed a non official report with an official one.It is annoying because a couple of words were cut off in the description of where it was found. The bag was not under a bush. That changes some things but not everything. It also raises other questions such as was the bag damaged so that Trayvon had to throw it away. I still cannot find any mention of the receipt.

Going over the reports again raised some other questions as well. Does anyone know what kind of headphone/earphone Trayvon used? DeeDee says that it sounded like someone pulled the headphone/earphone away from Treyvon and she heard the sound of it hitting the grass. That sounds like Trayvon must have had a microphone with the headphone/earphones. Does that sound about right? (I am totally ignorant about this bit of technology). I see in some ads that they can come that way. That raises a question because the headphones/earphones were recovered from Treyvon's pocket. If Zimmerman pulled them off of Treyvon, how and when did they get into the pocket???

Elsewhere I read that Treyvon habitually ran the wire under his shirt. Did it have a wire? That would also seem to indicate his headset/earphones contained a microphone. How did a wire get out from under the shirt and into his pocket? That also raises the question of where he kept the phone itself because the phone was found on the ground in an unworkable condition because the rainy conditions either caused it to discharge or short out or it had a very low battery. I can't imagine he would have carried it in a wet pocket. The 7-11 video in one view seems to show part of the headset/earphones so that also would indicate a microphone since while a microphone could be visible the ear part was hidden under the hood. If Zimmerman pulled the headset off of Treyvon, when did he have an opportunity to put it in Treyvon's pocket? What did DeeDee actually hear?

Questions, questions, questions.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 7:30PM
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A plastic bag tossed, while the contents are in pockets ...I'd call that a teenager littering.

headphones with the wire run under a shirt...I'd call that a smart kid who doesn't want his music player ripped off. Those of us riding public transit do this every day.

Absolutely nothing abnormal with either of these things IMO.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2012 at 11:38PM
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sleeplessinftwayne(z4-5 IND)

The bag is only important if there was something else in it. If it was empty then it probably has no value. The question remains, why didn't Treyvon use it as a weapon with the can of tea inside?

Who said there was anything unusual about a wire under the shirt? I used to do that when I was still able to jog. I was wondering how and when it got into his pocket. If it was wireless it would have been easy, not so easy with a wire under two sweatshirts, at least one of which was wet.

DeeDee's claim is that George must have pulled it off of Treyvon because he didn't answer her after that and she heard the sound of the grass when it hit the ground and then she heard Treyvon being pushed and shouting. Doesn't sound very simple if it was George putting it in the pocket unless of course it was wireless and it was in the sweatshirt pocket along with the Skittles, a red 7-11 lighter and a photo button, whatever that is. I guess that is a current teenage fad.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2012 at 5:08AM
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Let's see - he didn't want the bag because he was going to eat/drink the items and having them in a bag made it more cumbersome? Put the skittles in one pocket and the drink in the other and get to them easily depending on what you want to consume.

Really a lot of time spent conjecturing WHY he put stuff in his pockets when he could've kept them in the bag .... Evil intentions fo' sure.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2012 at 7:24AM
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"DeeDee says that it sounded like someone pulled the headphone/earphone away from Treyvon and she heard the sound of it hitting the grass"

emphasis mine. What? She heard earphones hitting the grass? Really? How distinctive is that sound? It's like a case a good friend of mine defended. A black male in a ski mask robbed someone. On the other side of the room. But the witness was sure it was him because she recognized him. Really? That she recognized his "eyes". What the flip?! Unless they were distinctive eyes (and his weren't), I don't buy it.

I really don't buy she "heard head phones" landing on the grass. What a bunch of hooey.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2012 at 8:35AM
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