What is it? Newbie seeks answer 2 bittersweet mystery

georgeccAugust 4, 2012

What is is?

Well, I bought a nice 6-foot Jeannie Moragne on Craigslist several months ago, and I've been waiting patiently for it to bloom. It's right in the middle of yard, should make a great centerpiece.

Then it opened! What is it??

It's definitely not a Jeannie, and I'm really bummed about that (I'll have to shop for a large Jeannie to put there - it's a great location). But as upset as I am, this new flower is gorgeous! - 4 inches across, deep rose color, with crimson and magenta and slight purple - beautifully veined and strong wonderful scent.

Funny how disappointments with plumerias identities bring such mixed feelings! Does any one have any idea what I have? Unfortunately, my camera doesn't capture the deepness of the reds as much as I wish it would, but hopefully it can still be identified. If not, I may call it Simi Mystery and try to register it (although Another Craigslist Mystery might be a more accurate name!)

I've got others that need identifying (beautiful ones, too), but here's the first for the experts!

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georgecc

Another pic...

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 1:07PM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

Well whatever she is she's a beauty! Maybe others can ID it for you. :)

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 2:16PM
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georgecc

No-Clue, it's so much more beautiful than the pic, you'd love it. I'm learning it's a big challenge to photograph red plumerias properly. Even my small Jeannie that looks so good in photos, looks so much better, colors more intense, live. Do hope I find out what this is!

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 2:22PM
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pcput

I'm wondering if it could be a Jean Moragne, the Sr. not Jeannie the junior. Just a guess. You need the experts here. Peg

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 2:53PM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

whatever it is, it's sure nice!

I'm only familiar with Jeannie Moragne, Jr. and that's not it.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 3:27PM
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georgecc

Outside of the rounder shape, it's also much redder than Jeannie (I have Jeannie and Katie and have seen Kimi). Although the mystery plumeria does have magenta, it has a deep rose red, too. Jeannie is a mind-blogging plumeria in my opinion - the color saturation is amazing, especially in the warmer weather here. It's simultaneously graceful and startling. (Katie is a beauty, too, but not as dramatic). But this mystery plumeria is pretty special. And it's turning a deeper red as the hours pass (whereas my Jeanne gets a deeper magenta with the hours, before it starts fading).

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 3:39PM
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georgecc

Peg, Interesting if it turns out to be another Moragne. It's a big family!

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:31PM
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printmaster1

You can get a Jeaanie Moragne in Huntington Beach.
Look on Craig's List. Ad states he has 20 varieties and 100 plants & is a SCPS member. John has great plants. I bought six last week from him. Search Orange County.
Lonnie

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 10:17PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

My first thought was Lurline or J-105 It has the looks of the folded petals and thickk looking petals.. Just a thought..

It is Funny you say this.. I was just looking at my Grafted Aztec Gold... which i purchased from Plumeria Gallery years ago. Not sure if they are stil in business, but it looks something different from the tag.. HMM? I see pink or rose... and the tag says, Aztec Gold? HUH? : )

We shall see!!

Good Luck to you..
I hope someone can identify this beautiful bloom.

Take care,

Laura

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 10:44PM
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georgecc

Laura, interesting suggestions! I checked out photos of both, and this has similarities to both Lurline and J105 - the shape, size, veins, curled petals, the purple. It looks a little more like the J105 to me - however, both those flowers have a lot of orange, and mine doesn't. Now, given the weather here, my flowers tend to be much redder than those growing in other places (my small Jeanne, Kauka W., even Caifornia Sunset will attest to that. But this flower is MUCH redder than those - primarily a deep rose red rather than primarily magenta. I'm wondering whether I should bring the flower to the show tomorrow. Once the inflo has several flowers blooming, this is going to be awesome.

Lonnie, I'll be seeing John tomorrow in Huntington Beach, and I'll check out his Jeannies. The photos he has of San Miguels look amazing, too. Only problem is that I hadn't budgeted for a large Jeannie right now. One lady in Long Beach offered to sell me a big 6-7 foot (by 3 feet wide) cutting off her large Jeannie Moragne tree, with lots of branches (for about 125, which is much much less than any 6-7 foot rooted one in a 15 gallon pot). Does this sound like a good idea?

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 11:21PM
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jandey1(TX8)

I don't believe any of the Moragnes are that red. Wouldn't it be funny if that was a Wildfire? Not likely, but amusing to think about!

Simi, what are your temps and humidity right now? The flower looks like a cross between JL Red Orange and Dean Conklin.

Hopefully one of our CA experts will chime in.

    Bookmark   August 5, 2012 at 11:23AM
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georgecc

Jandey - would have been funny if it turned out to be a Wildfire! On the other hand, my Cerise hasn't opened, but my Sundance opened and turned out to be a Cerise! (I wonder now what my Cerise is? Can't wait till it blooms).

And I found out that my 'Hollywood Mystery' is actually a Guillot Sunset (it was Bud Guillot who told me that, LOL, so at least I have good confirmation!)

Here's a new photo of the mystery flower that started this link - some think it's J105, some say it's not - but it's gotten even more beautiful!

    Bookmark   August 18, 2012 at 11:11PM
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jandey1(TX8)

Wow, Simi, whatever she is, she's stunning!

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 1:52PM
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moonie_57

Yes, it is a beauty! Is it purplish or is it my computer?

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 2:38PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Last pic looks like Jean Morange Sr. Both Jeannie Jr and Jean are large flowers 4" plus. In your first pic it looked kind of like a Gina from Jungle Jacks which also gets large.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 4:59PM
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georgecc

Moonie, it's not your computer - there's purple, violet, magenta, crimson, rose, all the reds and near reds are in there! The first photos I took with my Nikon, and the reds were suffering. I tried a Pentax and am getting more realistic reds. It's quite an amazing flower.

freak4plumeria, that's interesting - I saw a Jean Sr. yesterday and it didn't get my attention. But it was in a cooler part of town, so it wouldn't have gotten the deeper colors. Shape-wise, it still looks to me more like a J105, but it seems way too red overall to be that. I've seen a Gina, too, which is quite beautiful, but I didn't connect it to my flower. Hmm. I have to look at the Gina and Jean Sr. a little more.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 6:19PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Simi Valley gets pretty hot during the summer so you will get more intense, saturated colors, where your reds can look purple, some reds even look blackish. So again just taking a pic is not 100 percent proof for ID. You need more info like scent, growth habit, leaves etc. The interesting thing is that you were going get a Morange but it looks like it could be a Thai JJ Variety.... Did the person you bought the plumie from sell or carry JJ's varities??

Good Luck on your ID.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 10:30PM
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moonie_57

I agree with James about the info like scent and leaves, etc. My mystery plant that is going to bloom soon could be 1 of several varieties. Going by the leaf shape and leaf tips, to my DH's delight, I believe it is going to be Celadine. I won't complain because he will enjoy the scent.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 11:10PM
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georgecc

The last couple of weeks in Simi have had temperatures between 89-105. I bought a number of plumerias in cooler areas, and have definitely noticed how the colors have become deeper/more intense and more saturated here. Sometimes they become so deep they lose their beautiful subtle details, sometimes they're so saturated that they seem to gloriously jump out at you - it's good and bad. I will take some pics of the leaves and the shape of the tree (Simi Mystery I'm calling it for now), hopefully that will help, along with a description of the scent (it's rose-like, but I'll get more specific).

I bought six good sized (4-7 foot) trees from the same person on Craigslist - Maui Beauty (wasn't Maui Beauty - but whatever it is it's awesome and doesn't stop blooming), Jeannie Moragne (turned out to be Simi Mystery), Sundance (turned out to be Cerise), Cerise (hasn't opened - Sundance? Could be anything), Bridal White (hasn't opened, could be anything, but I did go take a look at a Bridal White at Island Plumeria in the likely case I never see one here). A Teresa Wilder was a cutting, and it's bloomed twice, but it looks like Celadine. So I doubt the seller was an expert on plumeria varieties (although she did know a lot of names), let alone Thai ones. But since I've been repeatedly surprised by this seller, who knows? As disappointed as I've been, I've simultaneously loved the trees I got from her!

Still looking for a 6-7 foot Jeannie Moragne (I'll make sure it's blooming before I buy it this time!).

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 11:48PM
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jandey1(TX8)

Sounds like your seller was suffering from Plumeria Confusion Syndrome. It happens to the best of us.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2012 at 10:58AM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

Simi I went to see Mathew yesterday. Long story short... DH had business in LA, and when I put the two locations on the map, Mathew was only 10 miles away so I literally hitched a ride w/ DH!

Oh my goodness he has a HUGE operation!! Sooo many plants but most blooming ones are too big for me to take home! I did walk away with 6 five gal plants though...and first time I ever bought so many non-blooming plants!

1. My Valentine... not the blooming one b/c she's about done... but the two brancher... hoping she will bloom for me next year.

2. Siam Ruby - not blooming but I need more red.

3. JL Golden Pagoda - he has one blooming but the blooms are very small so not very mature. I went w/ the one that is not blooming hoping it will have more time to build up the root system and maybe just maybe bloom next year?

4. Hilo Beauty - he has a HUGE plant that is blooming but way too big to even consider taking home. Once I saw the blooms in person, it was a no brainer. Has to have her. Amazing, show stopper, heart pounding beautiful.

5. Butterfly Gold - he got this plant years ago from FC! She is not blooming this year so I might get lucky next year?

6. Kimi Morgane - she's my only blooming plants. Flowers are so beauty besides I have to have one blooming right? Just a one brancher but looks like a prolific bloomer?

Anyway, I just thought I'd share since you were the one to mention Mathew. So thank and sorry to hijack your post!!

    Bookmark   August 20, 2012 at 11:33AM
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georgecc

No-Clue, I'm so glad to hear - I knew you'd love it. I know that Kimi Moragne he has well - almost got her my self but I had too many pinks - it never stops blooming. I have to check out the Siam Ruby now - I'm looking for another red (I have Hilo and Pops Red). Sorry I took the biggest My Valentine last time! Congratulations on the great purchases!

    Bookmark   August 20, 2012 at 11:45AM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

LOL... it's not your fault. It wasn't meant to be. I wasn't planning on getting MV from Mathew... in fact another gentleman was holding mine but then he sold it... so I guess when you snooze you lose, so I figured I better take this one even if it's not blooming.

He has quite a few Siam Ruby but they are all small. I find it hard to get a 5 Gal Red of anything. So right now I have Siam Ruby, Siam Red, Hilo Beauty, Duvachelle (just barely rooted by a friend for me), Safari from JJ"s, and Wildfire but all are in 1 Gal! So it will be a long time before I see any red blooming.

How do you like Pops Red?

    Bookmark   August 20, 2012 at 3:29PM
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georgecc

No-Clue, I love Pop's Red! Love it. You immediately notice the flowers from anywhere in the yard, the color just jumps out at you. It's an amazing red, the inflos look awesome, it's really beautiful. I've been tempted to get another.

I've never seen a Duvachelle, but heard it's pretty amazing. Have you seen a bloom?

    Bookmark   August 20, 2012 at 6:52PM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

Pop's Red is listed for Sale in Sept... so I will look for it then.

No I have never seen Duvachelle in person. I actually bought a cutting thinking I was buying a rooted plant! At least I had the sense to send it away to my friend to root for me. Last I heard he said all my plants will make it including Duvachelle cutting!! But I asked him to keep my plants until December after I moved... this way they will be more established and also I don't have to disturb them twice. So I have not seen my 5 kids for over 2 months!

Mathew has quite a few Musk Rainbow did you pick one up? He gave me a few blooms from his larger tree and they are so unique I had to get it. I bet with your weather that plant will be phenomenal!

    Bookmark   August 20, 2012 at 7:20PM
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georgecc

Now I have to check the Musk Rainbow! I see so many beautiful things every time I go, that it's a little overwhelming. My head spins!

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 12:31AM
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georgecc

Okay, here is a overview of "Simi Mystery".

The scent is fruity, rose-like, spicy. Varied and quite nice. The flowers don't last too long on the tree at this point (remember the tree is still in a pot).

The flowers are about 4" across - this is in 90-100 degree weather:â¨â¨

Tree in pot:â¨â¨

Branches and leaves:

â¨â¨

Leaf:

â¨â¨

Leaf front:â¨â¨

Leaf back:

â¨

Okay, so there are the facts. Any ideas? And if we can't identify it, can I name it? What are the rules?:)â¨

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 9:47PM
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georgecc

Sorry for all the weird characters (â¨, etc.) in the above post. I was not careful enough!

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 9:49PM
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