20 dollar fine for swearing in public!

tobr24u(z6 RI)June 12, 2012

Yes, this what it will cost you in a town in MA. How can this be enforced? Such silliness is hardly worth mentioning, but some penalty for silliness of posts should be applied here...

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Yes, well, we really don't frigging like swearing here in got-dammed old-fashioned Mass, not like some of you foul-mouthed sun-of-a-guns in them other filthy states.....

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 6:38AM
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LOL PNBrown .... although the younger generation (OMG I have become my mother) do have some pretty foul mouths in public.


    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 6:40AM
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What was it I used to hear? "Chuck you, farley."

Oh yeah, my mother taught me that one. ;)

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 8:55AM
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I believe that a similar local law was ruled unconstitutional in the past year or so.

I'm an old fuddy duddy because I find the much of the swearing offensive. I particularly do not like to listen to the lyrics of many songs blasted from the car next to me. I want to roll down my windows and find the local classical music station and blast them back.

I have asked people to leave my office because they can't talk without using the f, b or n word. If you can't have a conversation without using that language, then I'm not really interested in talking to you.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:06AM
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I will shock everyone here by saying I think it's a good idea. I, too, hate being blasted by loud car rap music. And what about the effects on young children? Does that not matter anymore? For some years, we have been witnessing the "coarsening of America" and the decline of civility.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:11AM
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Another slippery slope being climbed... what words are acceptable, and which fit into the category of paying if used?

Between my husband and myself, this is probably the place where I manage to keep it the cleanest. My husband has always punctuated his speech with rather colorful language.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:15AM
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I'm always amazed when people can't express themselves without expletives and tend to think they lack the smarts to get their point across without them.

Maybe it's just considered "cool" in some quarters.

With loud music and ear buds, etc., I read hearing loss is on the rise. Add deafness to the growing list of afflictions.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:32AM
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I want to roll down my windows and find the local classical music station and blast them back.


I'm with you, jlhug.

My favorites to roll down the windows and blast back are are Mozart's Sonata in D, Beethovan's Eroica Concerto, and anything Rachmaninoff.

I've done it several times.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:44AM
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I've done it several times.

That was YOU? ;)

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 10:14AM
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How does that law work in view of the first amendment?

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 10:27AM
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Chase the 1st Amendment is only applicable if you agree with me ... didn't ya know?

Americans are all for tossing out the baby with the bath water ... that big picture needs some windex.

At a gathering of the right (Tea Partiers) the other day the activists freely admitted that getting rid of the unions and not balancing the budget in Wisconsin was the goal. Call me shocked :)

Regulations are another thing we need to toss away, who cares about the air, soil and water ... we gots monies to make for our masters.

Call me Alice.....

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 10:33AM
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In view of the 1st Amendment, it doesn't work... but then, neither do half the laws being rushed through at state level that go against the Federal laws already in place.

It's just another way to keep more money flowing, the courts more loaded, prisons profiting, and force people to conform to a police state.

Just because someone punctuates their speech with expletives at times doesn't mean they are unintelligent... it just means that's how they speak. It becomes a habit to add adverbs and adjectives that "proper" folk would never admit to using.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 11:10AM
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I'm building a house in the Columbus area and my "new" neighbor is a retired Navy Seal.

He visited me while I was there over the weekend and didn't use anything but expletives.

So, is it $20 per word or per incident? If it's per word, my neighbor owes me about $1,500.00. :)

"would you like to share a cold beer break with me?", his reply as I reached in to the cooler, "do bears f*** in the woods?".....A yes would have sufficed, but he made his point.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 11:23AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I'm not offended by coarse language.

As for swearing and it's prominent role in contemporary culture, all spouses have mastered the art of selective hearing -- so apply that art more liberally.

Mozart's Sonata in D, Beethovan's Eroica Concerto, and anything Rachmaninoff.

I would be rolling up my window at any Rachmaninoff blasting at me. My choices for blasting are Pharoah Sanders, John Coltrane, or Ornette Coleman.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 12:44PM
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Van Morrison .. :)

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 12:50PM
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kwoods(Cold z7 Long Is)

ooooooooooo!.... Pharoah Sanders..... spotify, putting on Naima now....

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 1:32PM
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Alanis Morissette

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 2:03PM
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I do find swearing offensive. It is such a lack of respect for the people around you who might possibly be made very unconfortable by coarse language.

I don't think vulgar, swearing and cursing has anything to do with freedom of speech.
What is that person trying to say that is a belief or that might change another's way of thinking.

When one is out in public common decency for others should
over rule that clods freedom of coarse language.

I feel the same way about T-Shirts with offensive words or pictures out in public.
I am offended when someone is in front of me and I am looking at F Y on a shirt.

Aaaaaaah, if only life was perfect.

Sarah McLachlan for me.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 2:49PM
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I think it's a matter of degree. I'm never offended by "Bloody he77", "dam", or even "zut, alors"! But the F word coupled with mother is just plain inconsiderate, particularly when young children are around. There is a time and a place for a well-chosen swear word,on rare occasions, but when almost every public sentence spoken is vulgar, there is no self control present.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 3:02PM
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I was raised in an ultra-fundamentalist (Nazarene) family where any swearing, even "gosh" or "darn", would have been a punishable offense. My mother always said people who needed those words didn't have much command of the English language.
I left their religion, and a piece of me in Vietnam, but somehow that one thing stayed with me.
There are exceptions: In a prison, most sentences are full of g-d and m-f references by inmates. Staff is not supposed to curse, but most do. I don't, but 5:45 a.m., I was taking my post--tripped with a 16 oz. Styrofoam cup of HOT COFFEE. It splashed all over me and my uniform. I held back for almost 5 seconds and then I said "Damn". An inmate was sweeping the stairs and overheard me. Within 15 minutes everyone in the prison knew that Mr. _____ had cussed. It was like party time and I was teased for a long time about my slip. I was laughing too - it occasionally has its' uses.
Someone being loud and profane in a public venue such as a restaurant, when my grandchildren are with me is vexatious.
But I just tell them what my mother told me, without apology.
No way this could be constitutional.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 4:22PM
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When I go back to Columbus on Thursday, I'm going to visit my neighbor, that Navy Seal who is 6'8" tall and tell him to clean up his language....my grandkids will be visiting me.

No I won't!

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 4:34PM
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I never swear in public and in regular conversation. But don't get the profanity police eavesdropping when I'm messing around the yard and the hose is kinked or the koi have knocked over the pond plants again.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 4:41PM
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I think using a different type of slang in speech, which people might call cursing or swearing, is just another "rule" that society has kind of imposed... and though my Dad would not swear in front of women or children, or in "polite company", as he used to say... I've heard him use plenty of words that one would call curses. My own Mother was quick to fly off the handle in anger, and her cursing was probably worse than my Dad's!

There are a couple of words I don't care to use, but one would say I sound like a sailor if they heard me talk! I wouldn't speak that way in front of little kids... but adults are fair game... especially if they raise my ire.

Sticks and stones, and all that... not to mention, the 1st Amendment.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 4:44PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I never swear in public and in regular conversation.

Same here. Not even when driving.

don't get the profanity police eavesdropping when I'm messing around the yard and the hose is kinked or the koi opossums have knocked over the pond plants again.

Add a few lines about kitchen mishaps, and Lily and I are twin sisters.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 4:49PM
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Not even when driving.

....okay I confess driving through crosstown traffic (with the windows up) I have been known to utter some words that would have had mama sticking a bar of soap in my mouth.

But really people did you get your driver's permit at Woolworths ?? No you cannot turn left from the curb lane, and NO you cannot turn right from the center lane and weaving in and out of traffic like a nascar driver will only get you to the red light before me.

Okay done ranting...

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 4:56PM
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Hey I'm an innocent, I thought ease dropping was offensive until I realized what it was. If you stick your nose in my business and hear me swearing well what can I tell ya. Know your audience is all, swearing and the words used can entertain or shock depending on who is in ear shot. Brits are not as prudish about swearing as you guys but this the land of Gor Blimey so what do I know. People here in Quebec say the most foul things as far as other Quebecois are concerned but it misses me completely. My wife's favourite is six balls (seebol). huh? I hear you say.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 5:56PM
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My dad was a good Catholic and I never heard him swear. But he once made the words "DIRTY COCKROACH!!" sound like the most vile thing you'd ever heard when he was shocked by a toaster he was trying to fix...

I actually don't mind a lot of rap music, but if anyone is blaring any type of music in the car next to me I'll counter it with some Howlin' Wolf, Eric Dolphy or Hank Williams.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 6:00PM
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I enjoy most every type of music, except for most instrumental jazz, most rap and heavy metal.
I love vocal jazz.

Obviously, I prefer melody.

I do not chew gum in public so of course I would not swear in public, and avoid doing so at any time.

I may have said a bad word this morning, however, when I was using a curling iron and dropped it on my thigh.

It is offensive to be in a restaurant or office and hear people use swear words. People that do it obviously want you to hear it--it's an aggressive "in your face what are you going to do about it" action.

I usually ignore it; when my children were small I would sometimes say something to the offender and remove the children from the area. Now I just ignore it, as it's someone that obviously has a chip on their shoulder and wants to "shock" someone or offend them.

I'm not shocked. I am somewhat, though mildly offended but I'm more perplexed at why someone would care enough to go out of their way to offend and shock a total stranger.

Must be that chip.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 7:26PM
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Why wouldn't you chew gum in public? That is bizarre!

I am not sure it is always about shocking people...some people just have potty-mouths for some reason.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 7:32PM
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Posted by inkognito (My Page) on Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 17:56

"Know your audience is all, swearing and the words used can entertain or shock depending on who is in ear shot."

That's me and my swearing, right there. Unfortunately, I can't take it back if I slip up. Ooops.

The Doors.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 7:36PM
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Posted by krycek1984 6a/Cleveland (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 19:32

Why wouldn't you chew gum in public? That is bizarre!


Have you seen some people chew gum?
Cows and cuds come to mind.
It's just not an attractive thing to be seen doing, in my estimation. The only person that looks good chewing gum is my father-in-law. I don't know why, but it's cute--not much motion. Go figure.

Yes, krycek, there are more than likely some people that are just accustomed to indulging themselves without thinking of the comfort of others and continue in public as they do in private.

But most people that curse in close quarters of strangers--at a restaurant, in a check out line, at a doctor's office, etc. know full well they're being heard, or should know.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 7:45PM
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....."chewing gum" in public, no "cracking gum in public" it drives me nuts ! I also was shocked the first time I saw a young girl spit, and since then grown women. Okay I am old dinasour (know that is not spelled right and too lazy to look it up) but that is me .. shrug

Daddy cussed, but mild stuff like "dammit" ... and when he yelled at mama he called her "honey". Always though that was amusing, how do you yell at someone and call them honey at the same time.

Okay here is another one from back in the last century .. "women do not go out in public with rollers in their hair".

Some days I really do feel old :)

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 8:10PM
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There's nothing so classless as a middle aged person cursing in public. By the time one is 40 years old, you would think any coolness or shock factor would be replaced by a semblance of common courtesy.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 8:18PM
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Cursing in public is annoying and tasteless, but I do love the look on an a person's face when they realize that I and one or more of my kids have been listening to them.

I'm all for fining someone who takes their flip-flops off in a restaurant. Double the fine if they then proceed to put their feet up on the chair or booth across from them!

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:07PM
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Eeeeooh the bare foot on the chair thing.

I second Demi on the gum chewing thing, but only if they chew with their mouths open, which most do for some reason. It's kind of like watching clothes go around in the dryer, only not as nice.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:18PM
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I didn't even realize people had a thing against gum...I've never known anyone who didn't think it was right to chew gum in public? I mean we're not talking about bubble-yum here...just a simple Orbitz to freshen the breathe for heaven's sake!

And what is so bad about wearing flip-flops to a restaurant and putting my feet on the seat/bench across from me? Your butt sits on the seat, you don't eat off of it. I don't see the big deal.

Seems we have some stuffy fuddy-duds in here!

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:49PM
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The gum thing makes me almost as crazy as people who chew food with their mouths open, or smack their lips. Shudder.

Fortunately, partner only does the smacking thing to irritate me (effectively).

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:55PM
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Okay here is another one from back in the last century .. "women do not go out in public with rollers in their hair".

Some days I really do feel old :)


HAHA! I ALMOST posted that after the gum comment, but figured most people would say, "who wears rollers anymore?"
Actually, I've worn hair rollers maybe five times in the last twenty years! I'm a blow dry girl for years and years now.

But I do recall growing up in a small town where on main street on a Saturday if a girl had a big orange juice can in her hair, plastic pink curlers or brush rollers with plastic picks, we knew she had a date that night! So, it was considered rather cool back then to be seen on a Saturday wearing rollers. ;)

Something I would not ever do it public, either.
Spitting? What has the world come to?
Call me T Rex, too.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 9:56PM
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krycek, I don't care if you wear flip-flops to a restaurant as long as you keep them on your feet.

OJ can, LOL! Spitting in a parking lot or on a sidewalk is soooo gross. It doesn't really bother me if walks away and does it in an area where nobody walks.

Moody Blues, Queen, Neil Young, Tom Petty, etc...usually have these blaring all the time IN the house! Kids hated it at first, but now I've even caught my son playing House of the Rising Sun and Bad Moon Rising on his guitar.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 11:24PM
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Aaaaaw, you can tell the older generation and the good manners taught and brought into adult-hood.

Mother said to never ever laugh at nasty jokes told in mixed company when I was in high school.
That still rings true to me today and I was always very uncomfortable.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 11:47PM
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Yes, Mom was wise. Other words of wisdom were: "anyone who talks about class doesn't have any."

The girls with the OJ cans had cool smooth hair. And white go-go boots :)

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 12:49AM
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I don't ever remember hearing either of my parents curse. When my mother was really fed up with me, she called me a little "rummy". I had no idea what that meant. I guess it means a drunk which wouldn't exactly be a good description of a misbehaving 6 year old.

I hear MF all the time when I go to the city...mostly young males. I think cursing in conversation is plain stupid , but I admit I have a short temper and get really irritated when I break something or the computer isn't working . The computer brings out the worst in me, and it's kinda funny because if I say G- damnit, one of my dogs jumps off the chair and goes to the other room. And no, I never even raise my voice to him, but he's staying clear.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 2:42AM
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My Chiropractor is mid 40's. While visiting "her" office to keep my early morning appointment, she walked from the records room and blurted out, "who the f*** created the cluster *f*** in the records room?

Good morning, Doc! :)

In my world, just as many professional women use the F-word in public as do young men who are not professional.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 7:39AM
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I have come to realize, ever since finding my mother in my mirror, that many things are generational.

I could not imagine spitting in public, chewing gum, wearing pajamas, hair rollers and any number of things I see these days.

We also "ironed" our hair ... yes with clothes irons.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 7:52AM
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What are "OJ cans"?

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 8:08AM
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orange juice cans :)

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 8:14AM
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I would agree with Ohiomom and her great frustration at inconsiderate drivers. I keep wondering what driver's education class teaches that yield means get there first, don't let anyone else in, and cut off other drivers if you must... that turn signals are optional, and only come with the car if you order them... and that courtesy is something to be left home when we get in our vehicles! I hear your frustration!

Traffic jams and gaper's blocks would not happen if people drove as they should and weren't so nosy about who got pulled over and for what, or how much gore they can see at an accident scene!

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 8:39AM
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I had a hunch the "Baby on Board" window sign so popular a while back was thought to be carte blanche to cut people off, weave, cruise through stop signs...

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 8:50AM
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This is like a trip down Memory Lane -- I remember ironing my hair, too.

Nothing disturbs me so much as folks who loudly smack gum loudly, especially in the workplace, or people who spit shamelessly, wherever. I just don't get why it is cool to spit. But then, I am bothered also by people loudly munching popcorn or crunching paper wrappers in movie theatres where I have paid to hear the dialogue and follow the story.

About swearing, I have let loose a curse word or two in private at computer malfunctious or traffic problems. But the key thing is I would control myself around others, especially children.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 9:22AM
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Many smokers are spitters and many who chew gum deposit it where it's not supposed to go; on the ground.

Not all sailors cuss.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 9:34AM
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"There's nothing so classless as a middle aged person cursing in public. By the time one is 40 years old, you would think any coolness or shock factor would be replaced by a semblance of common courtesy."

Pretty much sums up my feelings. And this forum is public.

I lose a little respect for anyone who feels that it adds anything but disgust to the conversation to use vulgar language.

The worst for me is the, especially older, woman who feels that using vulgar language to emphasize a point is "cool". (Cool may not be the best word, but you get the idea.)

I lost a little respect for Hillary when she felt it was cool to be photographed in public tossing down some shots in a bar. I suppose she was trying to show that she's just part of the "common people", but I wasn't impressed.

In my mind, as I've been thinking about it, I keep having images of the Queen of England. I'm not big on the English Monarch thing, but, from what I know of her, I think she's got some class. I'd hate to see her acting like Hillary or using some of the language I see on this forum.

There's nothing "cool" about vulgarity.


    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 9:48AM
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"There's nothing "cool" about vulgarity."

Wow, Hay! We agree on something!

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 9:51AM
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How about "frickin'"? I think it sounds just as bad as the real thing, but I hear it from adults all the time as if they think they aren't cussing.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 10:06AM
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You're right, HF. And those euphemisms are all over the place, gosh darn it.

Is it really the word itself, or the intended meaning?

I mean, what the heck and jeez.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 10:12AM
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Sorry, Hay, but The Queen does imbibe... perhaps it's with a classy raised pinky finger, though, that she enjoys her gin and Dubonnet before lunch; wine with lunch, and a dry martini and a glass of champaign in the evening. This is per her cousin, Margaret Rhodes.

True, you wouldn't see her in Booty's Riverside Pub with the "coarser" crowd.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 10:19AM
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I have absolutely no problem with the Queen or anyone else imbibing. I love beer.

I don't even have much of a problem with Hillary downing a few shots in a pub.

But, still, if you're putting yourself forward as the leader, sybolically representing our country, as the model for our youth and all that nonsense, I think you need to try portraying a little "class".

I certainly wouldn't want to be hearing some vulgar language coming out of her mouth as she describes our relationship with foreign states.

I don't know, but I think Michelle has "class". Does she use vulgar language? Does she make a point of downing a few shots in the local bars on the campaign trail?

It's subjective, this "class", "cool" thing.

If you want to impress me, you're not going to do it by being vulgar. Not that you care. I can understand that.

My humble opinion.


    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 11:59AM
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kwoods(Cold z7 Long Is)

I remember being a kid and being absolutely fascinated by the concept that there were such things as illicit words. How bizarre!

I love words and language. Not offended by the proper use of any word. Mindless usage because one is inarticulate is different. I do understand that others are offended so, unless offense is the intent I generally don't curse.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 12:23PM
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Chewing gum in public is bad? Really? Had no idea. I understand the cracking thing can be annoying, but other than that, what's the problem?

I think knowing your audience is the important thing. Yes, some people curse at inappropriate times when there are children around, but I don't really care. It's not like it's going to make my kids curse if they hear some stranger doing it.

The computer thing does bring out the cursing! I don't know what it is about that. I work with computers and once when my daughter was little (probably about 5 or 6) she came to work with me one day. We were in my office and I couldn't get something to work and I forgot she was there (coloring quietly in the corner). I said a few choice words. OK, more than a few. Pretty much every bad word you can imagine strung together in one sentence. Just as I said that a co-worker walked in my office and actually fell on the floor laughing. The look on my daughter's face was priceless. And the the long "moooooooooom!". Oops, sorry honey.

She's 25 now and a 3rd grade teacher and she doesn't curse very often, so I didn't harm her in any permanent way.

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 1:31PM
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It's pretty unlikely that this will stand up to challenge in court. Other attempts to enforce similar laws have been shot down. There simply isn't a compelling state reason to ban obscene or profane speech on its face. A Michigan prosecutor attempted this a few years back, trying to prosecute an irate canoeist who uttered some choice words in earshot of a cop and family with children. It was shot down on 1st Amendment grounds by our Court of Appeals and I believe later this decision was affirmed by our Supreme Court.

Here is a link that might be useful: Maybe he was actually trying to call the waterfowl

    Bookmark   June 13, 2012 at 3:05PM
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Tobacco CHEWERS spit... I've never seen a smoker spit, unless they were smoking Lucky Strikes or some other filterless cigarette, or cigars. And some of us who chew gum have the courtesy to put it in trash receptacles when we're finished with it. Not everyone is a slob, you know.

And of course all sailors don't curse... it's a figure of speech, an expression. I'm sure you've heard it before.

The funny thing is... most kids learn curse words before we realize they even know them. But, they are smart enough to learn when it's not appropriate to use swear words, and when they can get away with it.

During my own youth, I heard groups of kids cursing, thinking it was cool... but the moment an adult showed up, it was all quiet. Peer pressure, fitting into a group, and wanting to be the "cool" kid sometimes makes kids do things we, as adults, wouldn't approve of.

I wouldn't swear in front of my grandchildren, or any other kids... but when I'm home with my husband, we speak how we want. That's just the way it is.

    Bookmark   June 14, 2012 at 10:32AM
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"Good authors too who once knew better words Now only use four letter words writing prose, anything goes.
The world has gone mad today & good bad today....yadda yadda yadda.
That was written in 1934.
The attempt to control the feeling behind the sound symbol that stands for that sentiment or feeling is whats at play!
We dd an experiment once on a customer service desk if instead of using an expletive after a particularly difficult situation the agent said blip or boop or tapped their pen or snapped their fingers. If they offloaded the stress or hostility in some way other that the use of a recognizable word supervisors still felt concern or stress around the new symbol or gesture.

    Bookmark   June 14, 2012 at 11:12AM
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"Like I've always said: Someday, only the rich will swear."
Albert Lehman: Marquetry worker

Per The Onion's Man on the Street Interviews

    Bookmark   June 14, 2012 at 12:41PM
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Quite a few people who chew gum in public actually chew gum almost all the time, because they have Xerostomia, aka dry mouth. Dry mouth is most commonly caused by the medications one takes, both prescription and OTC, meds that are used for chemotherapy, diabetes, AIDS, asthma, high blood pressure, lupus, anxiety, depression, and on and on. If you can quit taking your meds, excellent. If you need them, and you have dry mouth, you need another remedy. If you don't find a remedy so as to keep your mouth salivated, your tooth enamel will start to rot and you will have sky-high dental bills. Ask me how I know.

Ever wonder why there are suddenly so many commercials on TV for Biotene? There weren't ten years ago! Doctors and dentists now know that an aging population that takes medications is prone to dry mouth, which would be a mere annoyance if it weren't for that darn tooth enamel thing. Biotene, however, only works temporarily. If one has a serious case of d.m., the only remedy is chewing gum. Sugarless, of course. Preferably with xylitol. Dentists recommend it. In fact, truth be told, dentists know that chewing gum (sugarless, of course) is a Good Thing after eating, if you can't brush your teeth. Take a look at the flavors of gum now available at the check-out counter of a drug store or supermarket: strawberry shortcake, key lime pie, apple pie, etc. This is no accident. Boomers want what they want and need.

Personally, I am embarrassed by chewing gum in public. Often I mumble to whomever I'm talking to, "Excuse my gum chewing, I have dry mouth." If they don't like it, they can pay my dental bills!

Cussing in public - a big no-no. Cussing at home - certainly, especially if the Yankees win the pennant.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chewing gum alleviates dry mouth

    Bookmark   June 14, 2012 at 12:49PM
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Demi, the ways in which we are actually alike surprises me ALL the time, usually about taste and what is "appropriate" when it comes to common social mores. And maybe design, too! :)

Back before maybe the 80's when the word "tacky" was often used to describe people who acted somehow with a poor decorum, I was taught that chewing gum, period, much less in public looked "common" by my deeply southern (but very well educated and traveled) mother. I used the word tacky, she used the word common, we both were referring to the same things usually - and to this day sometimes I will still use the word tacky, but not for everything I really think IS tacky because I realize that I am your (slightly!)older T Rex twin sister *LOL* --

My father's position required that they entertain or attend parties most saturday nights when he was in the service, so from sun up Saturday morning my mother pulled her Ponds cold cream from the fridge and lathered up for the day after she had bathed (never showered that I know of) and washed her hair and set it and put a scarf around her head for the drying process to begin and then to leave it until right before they left.

Her outdoor chores were always done for the weekend so that she didn't have to leave the house and if anyone came to the door, we were instructed to answer and tell them that my mother wasn't able to come to the door and take a message. She set her hair at night before going to bed for most of my childhood, and even went back to it after the first flush of the excitement of electric heat curlers wore off her.

Because being seen that way for no real reason or without caring that you were seen that way was common *LOL* But you know, I would't be seen that way, to this very day. Life was hard enough. I would't have left the property but I would have talked with my female neighbors, after all everyone was in the same boat back then.

But I never saw my mother's friends in the neighborhood like that either - only when we were out and about.

She always said that electric heat curlers were the first best ever invention for women (we didn't discuss tampons vs pads because we were still in high school and using pads) and the second best invention was panty hose, freeing women from girdles and garter belts.

Spanx was a long way from becoming common under wear.

On date nights my older sisters used regular curlers and got under the hood of a dryer for a few hours while their hair dried (and they did their nails and weren't to be asked to do a THING that I, their younger sis, could do) but they didn't do the OJ cans because they both always had shorter, earlier 60's fluffy Jane Fonda haircuts before Jane grew her hair longer (both actually resembled her more than a little, too I always thought)

I came four years later and although I would use the really big giant curlers that were big for a few years but only sometimes, I had the long straight hair so desired of that generation. Frizz? OMgoodness, a terrible day!! I didn't have to worry about that, my hair was naturally pin straight which I loved for about 5 years of entire whole my life and then detested beyond detestation *LOL*

Swearing? Never. Ever. I was very uncomfortable around people who swore and the kids I hung with didn't for the most part unless one of the boys thought it cool until he got the girl's reaction. We were all a bunch of very protected kids in a very small town in high school.

My husband was enlisted military, swore something terrible, it was an issue between us for many years until I learned to tune it out. After my son was grown/gone I picked it up myself when I was aloone in the house or just him and could do some pretty righteous swearing when I thought it was appropriate to the discussion or I stubbed my toe (mostly toe stubbing).

But I always felt kinda funny about it, afraid "someone outside the front door" would hear me, felt my now long since desceased disaproval and have now cut back to the rare time when I burn myself with the curling iron on the back of my neck Demi *LOL* those burns take forever to heal!

It still sounds tacky to me, even though I know that a lot of the words aren't so very terrible in today's world of
'common' language.

Since leaving the military and is now working with very few people who were in it and never used such language so often as a part of their vocabulary, it's amazing DH now rarely uses foul language and amazing how quickly he got it that such language was not deemed appropriate, right away, within the first week, just from silent reactions to his language.

If I were a lot younger and still so self involved, I would take issue with it (that he wouldn't stop for me?) but heck, he quit, who cares why? And he realizes now that not the whole younger world spoke that way, as he once honestly thought, since that was all he was around.

I started chewing gum for the first time when I began going through the quit process of smoking (never in public or in my home only hidden on the back porch!) for three decades of my life. Not the quit- helpful gum, just sugarless gum. I used the patch and chewed gum like mad when the cravings began to get to me, and it REALLY helped. Pretty soon I wasn't thinking "I want a cigarette" but thinking "I need gum right now" - it really did help.

But I have teeth placement of such that I am unable to chew gum without popping it constantly (my dentist explained it) so I had to be very careful about where I chewed my gum.

For whatever reason, I think all that sugarless gum was the cause of needing three root canals during that period of time, too. I really do, something about the constant chewing at that point in my years, I think, harmed my teeth.

I still dislike women not wearing stockigs when dressed up but back in '98 I realized that it 'is what it is' and got some good, very light self tanning lotion and use it all year long on my legs, with a nice leg sheen cream when I'm wearing dresses/skirts which I do so frequently.

I think that when women who used to invest in really good quality sheer stockings simply had better looking legs appearance wise and a better finished look when dressed up, but I also realize that is my aged perspective. On hot days I'm grateful I'm not in those awful nylon stockings.

I also can't stand seeing women's thighs (gasp! haha) through their sheer pretty dress/skirt fabric.

When did we all stop wearing slips? But I don't own one and don't know that I coulld even find one if I went looking. I just don't get too sheer with the fabric of the clothing I wear from the waist down.

I really dislike it that we don't wear slips anymore. Again, my age talking - my teenager neighbor asked "what's a slip?" when I mentioned it! ;)

And just did not get the reason for their existence in the first place, back when they were common under wear.

And, I pine for hand written (fountain pens!) letters and notecards with pretty stamps. I really miss that, I used to love my stationary and used it ALL the time, especially during the traveling years when we weren't even incountry so much of the time, much less stationed near our hometowns. I had a letter being mailed once a day most weeks - relatives, friends, I was one who kept in frequent touch and loved those who liked to keep in touch with me.

That was back when the bill payer of the house would have a cow over the constant incoming long distance phone bill charge. A stamp and nice stationary with my nice fountain pen, I could easily afford most of those years.

In that, with the frequency, I was unusual - I was homesick for my friends and my family when they or I was away, as was generally the case for so much of our married life.

I'll bet most kids under the age of maybe 18 wouldn't even know what stationary actually was! I don't know that you can buy real stationary anymore either unless it's a special order. Whoever ends up rummaging through my stuff when I'm gone will find enough lovely stationary to last many people several lifetimes!

    Bookmark   June 15, 2012 at 5:19PM
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Nice to see sable slumming over here - long time no see.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2012 at 5:54PM
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I have a full slip and a half slip and I will not under any circumstances go bare legged unless it is a sundress and sandal look ... garter belts bring back memories of little skinny legs trying to keep those "seams" straight and learning to walk in high heels. Only make up allowed was a pale lipstick. Nothing was allowed on the eyes but we would "curl" our eyelashes and sneak a bit of mascara from a friend with a more liberal mama.

3 cent stamps :)

    Bookmark   June 15, 2012 at 5:59PM
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Times sure have changed, much to my pleasure! I'm sorry, but I simply couldn't live in a world where I weren't allowed to be myself, especially for the sake of "decorum".

There are times and places for good manners, courtesy, and proper etiquette... I'll agree with that much.

But when I'm in the company of close friends and family, excluding the little ones, I'm behaving exactly as the person I am.

Society, or certain parts of it, certainly developed some priggish rules along the way... and they simply do not fit into the world I live in. I could not imagine trussing myself up tightly like a turkey on a platter, being unable to breathe... all for some social event.

But then, I've never traveled in circles where others were thought of as commoners, and noses were held up in the air.

I much prefer the company of good, decent, down to earth folks who are real. Facades are easily seen through.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2012 at 8:05PM
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I think I hit a nerve, Jodik. Unintended, simply chatting about things then and now - you were not in my thoughts as I responded to this subject - nobody was really except for Demi, who's response reminded me of myself in those matters.

I am not insinuating that my way was or is better, anymore than is yours, just the way it was and for me and for me, it worked.

I was commenting on the outer shell of the way things used to be and the outer shell of the way they are now.

I'm pretty down to earth Jodi. I might choose to decorate the package differently from the way you choose to, but I would say that I'm probably easily as real as you are and frankly, I also hang with really good, decent, down to earth folks who are also real. I wouldn't hang with any other sort.

Your response did offend me, I'm big enough to admit it. I have no idea why mine offended you, but it certainly appears to have done so, from the specific wording you chose.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2012 at 8:33PM
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Mylab, I enjoyed your post immensely--and liked hearing about your mother.

We have many, many similarities, and I do recall the first "steam rollers" which freed me from sleeping in curlers every night since first grade, which I had done everything because I was forced to by my mother.

I'm catching flak for my gum comment, and I don't mean that people shouldn't chew gum in public, just that I notice many people are crass when they do it (not everyone, as I noted some are polite) and there were three things I decided as a young teenager that no one would ever witness me doing--smacking/chewing gum like a cud, holding a beer in my hand or a cigarette in my hand.

Mission accomplished; I doubt I break the tradition now.

I do also recall the Pond's, my grandmother would buy cloth diapers and use a fresh corner to wipe her face with the Pond's, and at the end of the week wash the diaper.

When I attended college and worked, I was probably the only student that didn't wear Dr. Scholl's sandals and bell bottomed jeans--I wore dresses, high heels and Hanes Ultra stockings--back then they were I think $3.95 a package--but it was my splurge. I went without lunch many times in order to wear the Hanes and not No Nonsense, which were spongy in texture and always orange looking to me.

Have faith--hosiery is back thanks to Kate Middleton and I am now thankfully back to wearing stockings, although garter belts are still nice to wear now and then, I prefer the Hanes thigh high stockings with lace. I own two half slips but can't find the old fashioned full slips except through the Vermont Country Store.

As to stationery, yep--have it. Engraved, linen texture. :)

None of these habits have a THING to do with facades or not being real. My home is somewhat formal in decor in some areas, whimsical and eclectic in others, but one thing that most EVERYONE has said in visiting my home is that they always feel comfortable. We take our shoes off at the dining table and tuck our feet under, whether there is crystal and silver on the table or stoneware or the occasional (gasp) paper plate for dessert.

Just this week I have been told twice that there is absolutely no pretentiousness to me and with me, what you see and hear is what you get.

One can live by more "civilized" less popular mores and habits and traditions, and still be every bit as down to earth as anyone else. Part of the fun of life is being able to experience different groups of people, different ways of life, and to be comfortable across the board.

I'm just as comfortable conversing with the CEO of a Fortune 500 company as I am with the bus boy at my favorite restaurant, whether I'm wearing a ball gown, a dress, slacks, or blue jeans and loafers (sorry, no tennis shoes with blue jeans any more for me).

And I suspect you are too, mylab.

BTW, three separate third degree burns from that curling iron, it's way down into the "meat" which looks like a roast before I cover in flour to brown. Like I already didn't have enough scars ! Beware using electrical appliances without proper clothing.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2012 at 10:05PM
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natal(Louisiana 8b)

I can't believe most of you don't ever let go with an appropriate curse word. Sometimes nothing else fits.

Dr. Scholl's ... I was still wearing them as my go-to yard shoes up until a couple years ago. Now they're ridiculously expensive.

Most people look like cows chewing gum ... that's why it's better done in private, although Sable is spot on with her info. Ink, was that an oink I heard?

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Scholl's original sandals

    Bookmark   June 15, 2012 at 11:06PM
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OMG..I have a bunch of my old Dr Scholl sandals somewhere in this big house. The navy pair was my favorite with jeans. I used to buy them at the drug store and they were way under $10, I think. And I did wear them with my bell bottoms.

Although some people carry it way too far, I like the casualness of today compared to my time. I wore hats and gloves to church, wore a girdle although I weighed 108 pounds and stupid nylons. HATED it all. My mother wouldn't even let me buy a gorgeous pinstriped Villager shirtwaist dress I wanted so bad, because "it's not dressy enough for church". I was 15 and i still remember that moment and what a fraud all these dressed up people were. Good Christians who used to gossip about who was wearing what. I remember getting my first bra at 12 or 13 and thinking..I have to wear this the rest of my life? Well, I don't around the house..just in public. No girdle, no panty hose. No ridiculously high heels. I switched my Dr Scholls to Birkenstocks and when my daughter and I walked the streets of Philadelphia last week covering at least 8 miles, my feet were fine. I followed a woman from the grocery store yesterday tottering in high heels , looking like she was about to topple over and said to my husband..why?, as I was slogging along in my Nikes.

As for chewing gum, I don't. My mother used to hand out Chiclets but they're very tiny and I wasn't allowed to ever crack gum. Never was found holding a beer, because i have never had one. Never was found smoking a cigarette because I never smoked. A girlfriend said if I didn't smoke, at least hold one because guys like to see a woman who smokes. Of course at one of our HS reunions, another friend and I didn't know who she was as she sat there puffing away. She had aged that badly.

How any of this relates to swearing, I don't know. Mylab, you're responsible for this drivel...lol

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 2:28AM
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Mylab - glad you mentioned the quitting-smoking gum; was going to add that to my post, but forgot. But I don't think that the need for root canals is caused by chewing sugarless gum! They are almost always the result of profound decay.

Cursing was forbidden in our home, even gee, gosh, and golly, but my mother occasionally used a phrase in Czech which meant, according to her, "dog's blood." Not exactly; it was the equivalent of s_o_b. A few years ago I said it to myself in a public place. A strange man standing several feet away asked, "Can you curse in every language?" "Are you Czech?" asked I. "Yes," he said. We both laughed.

Dr. Scholl's and blue jeans, yes, my at-home outfit for years and years. Then they vanished from the market for some years and I switched to a softer sandal. Natal - I looked at your link. Fifty-four dollars? Gosh.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 4:14AM
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I still wear blue jeans and have a stack in different sizes for the up and down swings .. wish I could find some "reasonably" priced Dr. Scholl sandals, not paying $54 for them.

Natal my cussing is usually reserved for non-drivers when I am driving to work in crosstown traffic ... course my windows are up :)

We ate tons of sugar growing up, made a small volcano on top of my oatmeal every morning and mama never said a word, odd.

I no longer wear shorts out of the house, do have some peddle pushers LOL

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 7:37AM
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"pedal pushers"

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 7:40AM
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I was certainly not intending to hit a nerve with you, Mylab... I've always valued your opinion. But I know there are types of persons "out there" who do live in such a manner... in that kind of world... on a constant basis, even today... and I simply can't paint a facade on and pretend to be that which I'm not for the sake of "what the neighbors will think", if you get my drift.

I am who I am. I've always been who I am, and I was always taught to stand up for that which I believe in and be proud of who I am... regardless of what the neighbors think.

But it seems we're doing exactly what it is those few want us to do... fight the class war. I've never thought of you as snobbish, at all... not you, Mylab... and I'm actually sort of shocked to learn that you took what I said personally... I never would have guessed by the writing you normally do and the way your mind works, from what I can tell, that it would bother you. In my estimation, Mylab, you have always been as "real" as I.

My previous post was certainly not aimed at you in any specific or derogatory way, if that's what you thought. In fact, I went back and looked, just to be certain... and, no... I named no names. It was a general statement of what I've seen as I've grown up, and as I've moved through adulthood... that our society has its way of separating people... and I think that's where half our issues as a nation lay, if you want the truth.

We're covertly divided, sometimes not even covertly, by media... and by politics, wealth, religion... and a host of other things. And that's what keeps our minds off what's truly happening under the blanket of power. It all goes back to the OP...

I can't even imagine being given a fine for uttering a word that some political faction has deemed "not my type of free speech"... can you?

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 8:32AM
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natal(Louisiana 8b)

Lily, yup ... $10 at the drugstore. I bought my last pair on ebay for $20.

Ohiomom, those pedal pushers are now called capris. I wear 'em year round.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 9:13AM
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I still have 2 pairs of Dr. Scholl's and enjoy wearing them around the house. Love Birkenstocks, but they are way too expensive.

Blue jeans are now quite, quite chic. I have several pairs, even a pair of skinny ones that I adore. (I figure at 108 lbs. I am OK with the look). Actually, I now weigh less than I did in High School.

Pedal pushers or culottes became popular with Audrey Hepburn, first, then caught on with the general public. I have 2 pairs I wear constantly, and I wear shorts, too.

I refuse to return to pantyhose, however. It's easy to keep a tan here year round, and the self-tanning lotions are cheap and look very nice.

I have something in common with Mylab and Demi: I have always adored nice stationary, good quality paper, fountain pens, pretty cards and stamps. I still write old fashioned letters to my closest friends, on occasion. I have several boxes of pastel, monogrammed stationary that I think looks elegant, but I prefer thin European stationary. As for pens, I used to have a Pelikan that wrote in calligraphic style, due to its point. How I adored that pen! I taught myself to do calligraphy because of it.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 9:36AM
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I do think there's a fine line between not caring what others think in order to be yourself, and purposely trying to offend others. When someone is called out on the latter, they end up claiming how offended THEY are. It's bizarre.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 10:18AM
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I think perhaps "crocs" have made an effort to replace the Dr. Scholl's sandals. I don't own either, but my husband loved the crocs I bought him.

I did, however, wear those Candies open toed high heel sandals.

I am going to bet many of you did, as well!


Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Fri, Jun 15, 12 at 20:05

"But then, I've never traveled in circles where others were thought of as commoners, and noses were held up in the air.

I much prefer the company of good, decent, down to earth folks who are real. Facades are easily seen through."


Pray tell, Jodik, exactly what "circles" are you referring to?

Exactly to what "facades" are you referring?

That sounds like a very prejudicial statement--assuming that "circles" of people think of others as commoners and that their noses are in the air."

Do you think that about everyone you see, or only people that you think have financial success that occasionally "truss" themselves "up tightly like a turkey on a platter, being unable to breathe... all for some social event?"

Some of the finest people I know dress up now and then.
They also wear blue jeans and do manual labor.
You can find them in anything in between, as well!

Of course, if Mylab does dress up and enjoys using stationery and lives her life according to the same rules of etiquette that I and others do, according to you she's not one of these people to whom you were referring as being not real, having her nose in the air, and being able to see through their facade.

What's the difference, then?

If it is not these characteristics of behavior and mannerisms, how can you tell if a person is "real" or not? Would you think that Mylab was projecting a "facade" if you didn't know her politics and interacted with her on this forum?

Would you think that Mylab and I had our "noses in the air" if you saw the two of us together in New York City, wearing suits or dresses and heels, and having lunch at a restaurant with white tablecloths? Would you label me as not "down to earth" and not "real" after viewing and observing the two of us, yet label Mylab as down to earth and real as you have here?

How do you distinguish?

How do you know which one of us, if either or both of us are "decent"--you know, the kind of people you "prefer to keep company with."

What makes a person "real," Jodik?

My opinion is that a "real" person does not negatively judge others by how much money they have, how they dress, how they choose to act in public, and a "real" person does not make derogatory assumptions about people based on these prejudices against people with financial success, against people because of how they dress, against people by where they eat, what they eat, and because they are more comfortable complying with societal civilities.

A "real" person tries not to judge anyone, and a "real" person treats everyone the same, and enjoys a much richer life for eschewing such banal and self serving prejudices.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 10:43AM
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A real person is one whose words are in sync with his actions. IMHO, what our reality is, is something others say about us - not what we say about ourselves.

Realizing the world is largely unfair, having the ability to extend graciousness to others is perhaps the greatest gift we can possess. There is great diversity in backgrounds, but none of us is truly self-made.

I'm thinking the people in the rarified air of the upper classes are real too. They're true to their millieu.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 12:51PM
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A restaurant with tablecloths - I don't know why I love them so - tablecloths, heavy cloth napkins, heavy flatware....about three times a year on special occasions we go to a fabulous steak house in town because I just love the whole restaurant decor experience, the dressing up for it, the works.

And it doesn't come cheap to us either, of course - we are not people who have a much at all in the way of "disposable income" so we have to carefully save for those occasions and they are real occasions to us.

There is a nice Italian place not too far from us which also does the cloth tablecloth with the cloth napkins and a full bowl of fresh flowers on the table - I love it too, and it's very affordable so we go there more frequently - but I only like two dishes and my husband only one of the dishes so we have worn that one out for the next little while.

Most of the time, for the really beautiful table, I've got 'the works' right here at home and will do it right here at home at our dining room table, I enjoy putting it all together, even if it's just the two of us. I'll leave it set and do it every night for a week and we will hand wash the good stuff together, it only takes a few minutes and we both enjoy it.

Different things appeal to different people - a lot of people could care less about what a table looks like: if the food is good then they are pleased (and we are like that 99% of the time) that is the only importance - but a beautifully appointed table makes even mediocre restaurant food taste great to me.

I'm like that about a lot of little things, I like the dressing and packaging of life, I enjoy the whole process but because we live on a tight budget, I usually craft it myself. It all makes life worth living, but I could live without it too and certainly did for many, many years and still lived with contentedness.

Different things are important to different people.

I think it would be a mistake to try to evaluate a person by one who would rather sit at a picnic table and eat crawfish and drink beer as one type of person over another who would enjoy that (I would and have frequently and loved it -well, not crawfish, but catfish!) but also really need a nice tablecloth in a restaurant sometimes in their life too.

You can't judge a book by it's cover because you are judging by using your own perception of what you think is behind the cover.

But I would agree with you Jodi in that the superficial appearance of a person is a choice that the person in question usually makes quite deliberately - and usually they are sending some sort of message about themselves in somewhat of a deliberate way.

I disagree in that I don't think it's forced upon us by mostly by any group or entity or even much by society - I think it is something we choose when we are adults. That would apply to most people I think.

But it still would only send a superficial message, not an accurate reflection of what is *behind* the wrapping of the package. For that, I believe you have to have a fair amount of time and exposure to the person.

Sable, I missed your post, I was in a hurry even though I wrote a dessertation! ;) You are very right, my mother, in her last three years of life had to drink constantly or use saliva replacement - she had oral cancer, no teeth, no jaw, a trachostomy for breathing, so she couldn't eat but could carefully drink small sips and had to have something going all the time or it made her gag terribly. It was a difficult time. I think there are probably better saliva replacements out there now than there was in 1990. Awfully important to those who need them.

Jodi, it's all good then, I misunderstood your response, thinking it as a direct comment to my own, it's all good!

It's very easy to misunderstand each other in here, no body language to pick up, no facial or eye expression to read. I wish I would remember that on a steady basis, I am trying to now.

One last thing. I believe the female world is divided by the croc/Birk shoe preference, yea or nea.

Big surprise here....... I give a big ole' NEA! *LOL*

(well, cheap croc plastic stuff for slipping on and off at the back door patio when running in and out of the house when doing garden work, but that doesn't count!)

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 12:56PM
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Well, mylab, if you're ever this way I know who to iron the linen table cloth for and get out great grandmother's silver!

Oh--and we have two catfish cookers to cook outside and although I've never had one either, I keep beer here all the time for guests (of course with a lime wedge tied with rafia at the cap) but mainly for making beer bread which I take to just about everyone I know at one time or another.

Niceties--we don't need them, don't have to have them, but they do make life "nice."

If one does not indulge themselves their prejudices in judging others strictly because of their financial situation and how they dress and what they like to do, one can find that they increase their base and the diversity of their relationships.

I can't imagine my life without the rich diversity of friends and acquaintances. To think, if I judged a good friend I have as being "snooty" because they are extremely wealthy and a noted business leader and did not get to know that person and family because of that perception, and if I judged one of my best, most interesting and compassionate and fun friends for having piercings and tattoos, and if I judged another person that works for me, and has become a friend, because they do manual labor for me, what interesting people and good friends I would not have in my life.

Chips are for eating, not for carrying around for everyone to see.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 1:18PM
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You weren't even on my mind when I wrote my first response, Mylab... I wasn't even thinking about you... not at all!

In fact, I was thinking of the subject, and I was actually picturing the boned corsets and trussed up fashions of Victorian times and before that era, when women were expected to be covered from chin to foot with several layers of material, which must have been horribly uncomfortable... weren't even allowed to show an ankle... and had to forgo many of the things we enjoy today, like wearing bathing suits, dressing as we see fit, and a plethora of other things that would make someone of those eras swoon!

And the fact that some people can and still do hide behind facades because they don't want people to know who they really are, or because they're afraid of what society might think... and that there ARE people who separate themselves from others in a condescending way, thinking that they are superior because of... whatever reason they may have.

People have been separated through class since the beginning of time, I suspect, and as society advanced, it became more pronounced. There was once, and might still be in some areas of the world, a gentry and a peasant class. The gentry would look down upon what they saw as the great unwashed, or the commoners, the peasants or servants.

And I was thinking that I'm so glad we've moved into the 21st century, where women have rights, people can think of themselves and others as equals, and we don't have to worry about what the neighbors think. It would be horrible if this sudden rush to take away women's rights were a move back in that direction.

It's true... we don't have eye contact, body language or voice inflection to go by, so we can't always be certain about meaning when it comes to what others write.

However, since we... meaning you and I... usually agree on a lot of issues, I rather figured you'd understand that my post was not aimed at you. We've never crossed each other... we may not agree on every single thing, but I've always held you in high regard, and would not insult you. I always find worth and value in your posts.

If I unintentionally made you feel bad, please accept my apology... that was not at all my intention. You are one of the few people who are able to remain neutral and calm through some of the storms that occur here, so I would hate to think you were under the impression that I was suddenly directing something negative toward you.

It has always been my habit to address personally those I wish to read specific posts... otherwise, they are general opinions and statements directed at no one in particular, and just part of the ongoing conversation.

The sad thing is... I have met people who judge books strictly by covers, and they end up losing out on a lot by doing so. They are so wrapped up in what others might think, that they may even be following values that aren't really "them", in a manner of speaking. It may be the way they were conditioned to behave... I don't know... I only know that some of the most wonderful people I've had the pleasure of knowing sported "book covers" that the few would probably not give the time of day to... and that's sad.

As I stated earlier, I am not without manners and proper etiquette when it's required... but I do happen to think that trying to mess with freedom of speech is a slippery slope... today it's a fine for swearing in public, and tomorrow it could it be burning every book that is deemed "inappropriate" by some elected official. Where do we draw the line? When is it ok to ignore the Constitutional rights of the citizenry to enforce personal beliefs and subjective morals?

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 3:03PM
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"that our society has its way of separating people... and I think that's where half our issues as a nation lay, if you want the truth."

Frankly, I want to be separated from some people. I do not want to live in the ghetto with drug dealers on either side of me and the constant fear of shootings. Nor do I feel comfortable going to stores who cater to the least mannered among us who make the experience miserable for others.

I think society does indeed separate us too much, but separating at some level is OK.

"But then, I've never traveled in circles where others were thought of as commoners, and noses were held up in the air.

I much prefer the company of good, decent, down to earth folks who are real. Facades are easily seen through."

I'm not sure what to think of this comment...I've known several people with a decent amount of money and they are just like everyone else. Granted they have money and that cna often make things easier, but still. Some of their houses were messy, some clean. Some of them were snobby, some of them were not. For heaven's sake, some poor people are snobby!

The owner of the business I work for is worth millions, I'm sure. He is a terrible person with mental problems, but he is not snobby and he is down to earth. "They" are just like "us" - same problems in life, same issues, etc. Sure money makes things easier (no worrying about what to do if your car breaks, no worry that you won't be able to afford clothes for your child, etc.). Still, some people with money are just as bad off as the rest of us...poor money management and they live paycheck to paycheck (or dividend to dividend).

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 3:29PM
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natal(Louisiana 8b)

We eat out a couple times a month and I definitely prefer a restaurant with tablecloths ... even paper will do. I hate being seated at a naked table and forced to put my silverware on it. Totally gross.

My crocs also sit outside the door for quick walks to the trash cans or to pick up the morning paper. More often than not you'll find me with moccasins on my feet. Their comfort can't be beat.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 3:32PM
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I prefer a pair of hard soled suede slippers with fuzzy, cozy interiors. Very comfy for my constantly aching feet. For outside working, milk house boots. When we go anywhere fancy, I have heels and nice boots, or cowboy boots. I prefer my comfy slippers, though... I can actually walk a distance without feeling it.

I've never owned a pair of crocs or birkenstocks. I find neither to be comfortable.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 7:30PM
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".........you are one of the few people who are able to remain neutral and calm........"

That was very complimary, but it made me laugh right out loud - you must have missed a WHOLE lot of my posts here Jodi, I've been AWFUL for months! And a lot would agree with me on that!

It's something I'm trying to work on and have a lot of slips. I have been pretty gnarly, mostly unnecessarily so, with how I expressed myself and spoke to others - and know it.

You must have completely missed those threads! :)

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 11:49PM
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I still wear jeans in the colder months and Capris all the rest of the time. I have given up the bell bottom..lol, but I have never given up the low slung jeans or capris. They used to be called hip huggers. I have to have them fall two or three inches below my bellybutton to be comfortable.

Re: shoes. I'll admit to having multiple pairs of crocs and will say they are very ugly, but comfy. I'm trying to think where my Dr Scholls are. Maybe I could put them on eBay. Birkies are more comfortable for me.

I must agree with you who like nice table clothes and cloth napkins. Even though the birthday party/dinner I had for my son last week was a picnic held by the koi pond, I had a cloth table cloth and cloth napkins and real plates, not paper ones.

I always try to eat dinner at places with nice table settings. My two favorites are an Italian one with cozy seating, lovely ambiance, cloth napkins and soft 30's 40's and 50's music playing. My other fav is a Thai restaurant with a $35,000 salt water tank in the middle of the room , real flowers on the table, and an orchid on every serving.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 3:14AM
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I find swearing overused but I'm not offended by it. I just don't believe f*c% makes a very good adjective. But ALL words have their place in the English language and I don't understand being offended by words unless they are being used against one personally. Even then I consider the source. Some people are worth reacting to, others aren't. The words really don't matter. Intent does. LOL

Fining for bad language? Rather see people fined for ignoring their screaming kids. Practice your tantrum management at home or in the car. Totally agree with the waving feet in restaurants. Cell phones with flash going off everywhere too. Fine those breaches of etiquette but leave verbal expression alone.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 6:17AM
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I meant in comparison to myself and a few others, Mylab! Your posts are usually a lot more calm and less sarcastic than some others I've read... and yours are never filled with or oozing vitriol, as several others usually can be counted on to contain, if you know what I mean.

We all have our "pet peeve" subjects... the ones that make us say more than we probably should... but yours always seem calmer and more thoughtful. Maybe I haven't read them all yet! ;-) I do pass over some threads, not having the time to read every one.

Seriously, though... $20 for letting a curse slip in public? Yeah... that would go over really well. Just more confusion and red tape for an already overtaxed system. Can you imagine trying to collect? I can picture myself holding up my middle finger and stating, "here's your $20 right here... come get it!"

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 6:38AM
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"Yeah, I got yuwaah twenny dallaahs....."

Or, in Quincy: "that's just fookin' beeutifulll, that's fookin' great, twenny fookin' bucks for swahrin in fookin' public, you fookin' kiddin' me, or what, heeyah?"

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 7:58AM
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I wonder if it's only the spoken word they're going after... or do hand and arm gestures count, too?

I predict it's the emptiest fund they'll ever try to build, and enforce.

    Bookmark   June 17, 2012 at 12:00PM
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