Splain Sumpin' Pweeze

gltrap54July 29, 2012

I'm growing what was supposed to be Butch Ts, but it looks as though they're cross pollinated....... (sorry no pics) I have some pods(on the same plant) that look like Butch Ts & others don't..... My question, can any of these pods be true Butch Ts?

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robeb_gw

Without pics, how can anyone say?

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 12:06AM
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gltrap54

I'm asking if it's possible to produce a true butch t from what appears to be a cross pollinated plant........

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 9:25AM
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ottawapepper

It is not uncommon to have variations in pods on the same plant. So, a true Butch T can have pods that look like what would be considered a Butch T shape and pods that don't.

If a plant is grown from a crossed seed then you'll never be able to predict what any saved seed will produce.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 9:32AM
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Edymnion(7a)

Yes, peppers that are not... well we can't say heirloom, so lets just say "oldschool" tend to have a lot of genetic variance. Older lines such as bells have been bred true for decades or even centuries that have wiped out most of the oddball genetic flukes.

Things like the Trinidad Scorpion are recent inventions. The number of generations since their inception are numbered by the dozen, not by the hundred. So, you will be far more likely to see oddballs crop up.

In short, don't fret over a few weirdly shaped pods on the plant, just look at the overall shape of the pods. Do most of them look like scorpions?

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 10:23AM
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gltrap54

Thanks folks for chiming in! I'm an avid gardener but totally new to both container as well as super hot growing....... I'm posting some earlier pics & promise to post more recent pics when I return from my honeymoon(yep,took the plunge). A few of my most recent pods are demonstrating Butch T characteristics, but most look like these......

    Bookmark   July 31, 2012 at 5:46PM
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Edymnion(7a)

Yeah, those don't look like scorpions. You may indeed have some sort of hybrid there.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2012 at 8:54PM
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gltrap54

Yeah, I'm pretty bummed...... Pepper Joe's sold me a pig in a poke! These are the only peppers I'm growing, so I know they weren't crossed by me..... Now that I'm hooked up here, I'll know better next year!

    Bookmark   July 31, 2012 at 10:52PM
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Edymnion(7a)

Well, you can't get hybrid pods the same season they cross-pollinate. The pod is produced by the parent plant, not the seeds. Be kind of like saying an interracial couple's wife would change color when she got pregnant, doesn't really work that way.

But yeah, there have been a lot of threads lately about Pepper Joe ripping people off, sending the wrong thing, etc. They're officially on my list of people to never buy from. They seem to be about as reliable at this point as ebay.

    Bookmark   August 1, 2012 at 9:00AM
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sunnibel7 Md 7(7)

Edymion, I think that's the best explanation/analogy about how cross-pollinating effects the seeds, not the fruit I've come across. And it made me laugh, bonus!

    Bookmark   August 1, 2012 at 11:09AM
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rdback(Z6 VA)

"But yeah, there have been a lot of threads lately about Pepper Joe ripping people off, sending the wrong thing, etc...They seem to be about as reliable at this point as ebay."

Might be a little harsh, but that's just me. Don't get me wrong, I've had issues with PJ in the distant past, and haven't bought anything from him in quite a while.

Still, the one thing I do see, over and over, is Joe standing behind his products. I'm constantly reading about Joe doing "the right thing" for unhappy customers. My suggestion is to send Joe and e-mail and let him know about your issues and see how he handles it. I know that doesn't "fix" your grow this year, but it's something.

Joe swings through the forums regularly, including this one. Perhaps he'll see this and respond here as well.

Rick

    Bookmark   August 1, 2012 at 1:43PM
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homefry319(5b NE)

Welcome to the club of getting bad seed from PJ

he will send you new seed if you email him but....

why waist your time likely that the seeds not going to be true again then you waist all the time and effort to grow something

    Bookmark   August 1, 2012 at 2:08PM
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gltrap54

Yuuup! PJ eventually sent me more seeds! Nothing like throwing good money after bad........ LOL! I'll damn sure be more selective with my seed source(s) next year! Even @ 60 yo, I'm still learning!

    Bookmark   August 2, 2012 at 3:06PM
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esox07

Joe, I did just that. I sent photos of some of my ripe pepper pods and requested they ID them. They ID'd them as I expected which is not what the seed was supposed to be. The see had been purchased by them. I wrote back stating so and never got a response. To be fair, I did not request any kind of compensation. The other variety that they sent me that did not grow true, I just chalked up to another reason not to use them again. I did not notify them on that one. The other two varieties did grow true.
Bruce

    Bookmark   August 2, 2012 at 3:14PM
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peppernovice

@Handsome54....This is my first year growing super hots. I too made a gamble on my first seed purchase. I didn't make it here until after I had already made that purchase. I have learned one thing. If you need seeds ask. There are plenty of generous people here who will be kind enough to give you seeds. Most people only have two requirements. First, send them a self addressed stamped bubble envelope (SASBE). Second, when your seeds produce pods, share those seeds with others. That is the deal I received, and I've been trying to do just that. I haven't harvested much yet, but some here were so generous I had seeds left over to share. You will quickly learn people here are as kind to you as you are to them. Most people have a list of seeds they can share. Just click on their page and go to seed share list. Good Luck!

    Bookmark   August 3, 2012 at 12:29AM
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gltrap54

Yuup, some helpful folks here for sure! I've gotten some very useful info, not only from the pepper forum, but vegetable and others as well.... They've saved me a ton of time & heartache! If I manage to grow true seeds in the future, I'm sure I'll jump into the seed exchange!

    Bookmark   August 3, 2012 at 7:58AM
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pepperjoe_2008

Hi Handsome 54 and fellow gardeners.
I looked at the pics of your Butch T Trinidad Scorpion pods carefully....and they are indeed Butch T's. There is a pod variation that is common with the SuperHots. Even in the same variety and on the same plant as you'll see in the picture I've attached. I'll gladly replace your seeds anyway just to make sure you are a satisfied customer. We go to great lengths to prevent cross-pollination. Several growers only grow ONE SuperHOt for me. Others use netting. But it only takes one little ant going under the netting with pollen on it to cause a cross. That's Mother Nature for you.
We've been in business for 24 years and have many, many happy customers. We'll keep trying real hard to continue that.
Fiery Regards,
Pepper Joe

    Bookmark   August 3, 2012 at 6:09PM
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pepperjoe_2008

Here is a pic of two different colored pods on the SAME PLANT. The pic was taken by Dale Baker of Bakers Peppers in Tampa Florida. You can have different colors, shapes, even heat levels from Chiles on the same plant. This does NOT mean that they cross pollinated. Just a natural variation by Mother Nature.
Fiery REgards,
Pepper Joe

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 1:48PM
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homefry319(5b NE)

so this is what I got out of 1 "bhut jolokia" pack from PJ

note: he has offered to send me free seed but Im not interested in it at all as its a waste of time and resources I can use on a more reliable seed source

also if anyone can actually identify any of these, I know 1 is some type of scorpion, 1 is a habanero and the other I have no idea... I have 2 more plants that are just setting pots and the rest of the plants I gave away still waiting for photos of the pods


    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 2:12PM
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peppernovice

The second pic looks a lot like my red savina plants. I'm in no way an expert. I may be stretching it calling myself a novice. Here's a pics of one of my red savina plants. Tell me what you think.

Tim

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 2:19PM
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pepperjoe_2008

HomeFry,
Your first pic is absolutely a Bhut Jolokia pepper (which is what you purchased), ...I actually label them as the Ghost Pepper, not the Bhut Jolokia. Pic is attached of the Ghost Pepper. Are you sure you purchased them from me?. Then you say "I know 1 is some type of scorpion, 1 is a habanero and the other I have no idea... I have 2 more plants that are just setting pots and the rest of the plants I gave away"....that is 7 pepper plants....then add in the ones you "gave away"....that is about a dozen plants or more. Considering I only have 10 seeds in my Ghost Pepper packs (NOT labeled Bhut Jolokia)....it seems you have more plants and varieties than I have seeds in a pack. Is it possible that you mis-labeled your varieties? Or got them from another vendor? If not, again, I will gladly replace your seeds with replacements. I want to keep all customers happy if possible. Please refer back to my post about the efforts that we go through to prevent cross pollination. The odds that you have 6 different Hot Pepper varieties from 10 seeds labeled Bhut Jolokia is about 0%. However, the customer is always right so I will gladly replace your seeds if you just email me with your address.
Great Gardening and Fiery Regards,
Pepper Joe

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:00PM
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peppernovice

I understand if you are unhappy homefry. It's very frustrating to spend time and money and not get what you expected. You do however have to admit that Pepper Joe is making an effort to correct the situation. No matter how much he tries, he can't give you this growing season back, but he is offering to do what he can.

Tim

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:10PM
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peppernovice

Handsome54.....I apologize. We totally hijacked your thread. That was not my intention.

Tim

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:11PM
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homefry319(5b NE)

Im not interested in a refund or more seed from you

also where do you get "more than a dozen"

3+2 =5 plus the few I gave away I had 9 out of the 10 seeds germinate, everything was double labeled

the only other peppers that even remotely could resemble any of those were butch ts (which I ordered from you) and they were started two weeks a part double labeled and in a completely different location ,two of those germinated and are producing peppers

again I have no interest in any seed from you ever again

plus saying its about a 0% chance that what happened, DID actually happen shows what type of business you run sorry not interested in anything you have at all

also the picture you posted looks nothing like my first picture, in both size and color(yes I understand there is variation Im not arguing that because it happens)

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:19PM
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homefry319(5b NE)

@peppernovice

the fact is hes public stated "it couldn't have happened' is whats making me more frustrated, because well it DID happen

I get people make mistakes, I do but when I know I do I man up and accept that fact not blame everyone else.

If I even figure there was an ounce of mistake where I mislabeled something I wouldn't be upset, it does happen but I literarily took triple the steps to make sure that it didn't happen(multiple labels, different rooms, different plant times), I also have types of peppers that I never even physically had seed for

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:24PM
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pepperjoe_2008

Here is another pic of different shaped pods and different size pods on the same plant.
Homefry, I publicly said I'd resolve your issue and even sent you a private email about my intention to fix your issue.
Thanks and Fiery Regards,
Pepepr Joe

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:36PM
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pepperjoe_2008

Thanks Rdback and peppernovice for your understanding. I really do appreciate that. I promise to try my best to keep every customer 100% satisfied.
Fiery Regards,
Pepper Joe

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:44PM
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homefry319(5b NE)

Id rather have you publicly admit that it could have happened rather than saying it was a "0% chance" because it did happen

an apology and admitting a mistake could have happened would have gotten you farther, not interested in more seed or a refund

    Bookmark   August 4, 2012 at 4:46PM
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pepperjoe_2008

Thanks Peppernovice/Tim for recognizing that I'm trying hard to satisfy a customer. You stated "You do however have to admit that Pepper Joe is making an effort to correct the situation. No matter how much he tries, he can't give you this growing season back, but he is offering to do what he can". I do appreciate that Tim.

Homefry, I do appreciate you stating that 90% of my seeds germinated for you....I'll take that great germination percentage any day.

Here's one final pic of Pod shape/size variation on a Chile that has not been cross pollinated....Mother Nature has a sense of humor.
Greaat Gardening to all and Fiery Regards,
PPeppr Joe

    Bookmark   August 5, 2012 at 10:02AM
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TheMasterGardener1(5B)

It is too bad what happend, homefry. Yea, from what I seen, homefry has the biggest, organized pepper farm I have seen.

There must be an actual real seed supplier that you could get seeds from ;)

    Bookmark   August 5, 2012 at 11:06AM
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homefry319(5b NE)

whats the point of 90% germination rate when I have multiple types of peppers than what they were spouse to be?

To make myself clear, I understand mistake happen I just want you to apologize, money/refund and seed mean absolutely nothing the fact you're not even recognizing that you made a mistake which is worse, be a decent human..

fyi my day job is customer support and guess what the first rule is apologizing whether you've made a mistake or not, the first thing you've done was say it was my fault..

also want to state that I didn't first blame PJ, first thing was I check all my photos and records to make sure there wasn't a mistake, then I came here and asked if it was possibly a different pot type(the ones that look like/are most like habs)

the facts are I have 3 radically different types of peppers in both pot size/shape/color than what my known bhuts(and the bhuts PJ posted a picture of)

I also want to stay(as I have in other threads) that some of the seed I ordered are doing well, producing well and exactly what I ordered

I have absolutely no other types of peppers that should look what those plants look like(all my hots I ordered from PJ) plus my plants were started different weeks, and in separate rooms(bhuts were already in the greenhouse when butch ts were started)

my gernmintion rates were

Ghost Chilis(oh and you advertise them as bhuts on your website not just ghost) 9/10 but I have multiple pepper types

butch t 2/10 doing great and hot as **** no tails(but I know only about 30% get tails) also not producing that well yet

Yellow Bhuts 9/11 (not sure why there was 11 seed but there was) all producing decent not many changing colors yet, 1 had a weird pot type(not as wrinkly) but its still as hot

Paprika, 85% germ things are going nuts

Black Jalapenos 92% germination, they are doing, fun conversation piece at the market, but in both pepper size and production rate my Grandes blow them away(see other thread) heat they will be just a bit more than my Grandes

The fact that you keep avoiding even admitting there could have been a mistake on your side is whats making me angry, Ill take it as a loss and find a better vender and always tell people my bad experience with you, if you would have actually treated me half way decent I prob wouldnt be pissed but even in this thread youve said "0% chance" and "are you sure you ordered from me"

sorry but thats just bad business

    Bookmark   August 5, 2012 at 3:05PM
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Calcat36(6b)

homefry, I'm sorry to read about your issue. Sometimes pride gets in the way of a business person LISTENING to what the paying customer is actually asking for in all aspects of the sale. Unfortunately, seeds take time to produce the end, unscrupulous dealers will try to use that as an advantage over the customer. "It's your fault." or "My supplier...". I don't know the person that sold you the seeds, but I assure you, being new to this, I won't get to know him either.

I did a search on Baker's Peppers too. I wouldn't buy from him either based on the results that I read.

If you would like an unopened package of bhuts from NMSU CPI, please let me know. Thank you for the head's up.

    Bookmark   August 5, 2012 at 4:10PM
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homefry319(5b NE)

Hey Calcat36,

Thank you for the offer, but I think you should save the pack for someone in the community who would like to try growing them for the first time.

I have 5 plants that I know are bhuts, 1 was over-wintered then I cloned it, I have them bagged off so I can save my own seed(and share if I get enough)

again thank you for the kind offer

    Bookmark   August 5, 2012 at 4:20PM
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pepperjoe_2008

Homefry,
I do apologize.
Seeing the meticulous detail that you take in your labeling and how tenacious you are with your point of view, we had to do something wrong at my end.
I'll circle back and look into who did the packaging in the timeframe that your order was placed.
I don't want to minimize an apology with any further explantion.
Let me know if we can be of service to you in any other way.
Pepper Joe

    Bookmark   August 6, 2012 at 6:44AM
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homefry319(5b NE)

thank you for the apology

    Bookmark   August 6, 2012 at 9:42AM
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gltrap54

Sooooo...... Am I growing Butch Ts or sumpin' else? LOL

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 11:53AM
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pepperjoe_2008

Hey Handsome54,
I believe you are growing the Butch T's.
You will know for sure if it has intense enough heat to be over 1.2 Million on the Scoville heat scale. It is also a tasty Chile.
If for any reason you are not satisfied, email me direct and I'll fix it for you.
Pepper Joe

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 12:19PM
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gltrap54

Thanks Pepper Joe for your effort to resolve this issue. As I've stated earlier, although I'm an avid gardener, this is my first attempt at growing Super Hots (in containers,no less). Lacking the balls to eat one myself, I made a batch of salsa using 2 Butch Ts & 2 Tam peppers per pint of salsa. Friends (with larger boys than I) have tried the salsa & assured me the only buzz they were getting was from the mild Tam peppers. I expected them to be blowing fire from all their orifices! I know heat levels can vary on the same plant, but this situation raised doubt in my mind.....

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 1:31PM
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pepperjoe_2008

OK H54....send me your mailing address and I'll send you a couple of packs of seeds...with some surprises too.
Fiery Regards,
Pepper Joe

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 2:40PM
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gltrap54

Deal!

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 3:20PM
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peppernovice

I admire your patience Handsome54! You waited for all that to be settled and never pushed your point. I hope you are rewarded with more heat than you can handle. Good luck sir!

Tim

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 4:03PM
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Calcat36(6b)

Same here H54. I also appreciate the way this thread went as a newbie. I will have to be cautious of vendors I guess. Glad to see you finally got the answer (I hope!).

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 8:10PM
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gltrap54

Thanks folks! Never meant to stir the pot...... Sometimes these threads seem to take on a life of their own. LOL Hopefully we all learned something......... ;)

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 9:22PM
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