Vera Cruz Rose, Hilo and Nebels Rainbow

beachplant(9b)September 24, 2012

While visiting with Emerson he told me that Vera Cruz Rose will not grow down here. He said it will be growing like crazy then just crater with no warning. He, and I, are very disappointed by this. He has tried multiple times and gave up. He was very impressed with the fragrance.

He also reported problems with Hilo when it is cut, stating it will start to die back and often dies back completely. Apparently this is a problem across the country and some growers are trying different methods including a sabersaw (?) to prune. He has had this problem several times. He did have a few Hilo and of course, being unable to resist red I had to have one.

Nebels rainbow is another he has problems with, black tip is very common and very problematic with this one. Which is why he is so excited about the Broomstick rainbow, no black tip.

He also reported losing cuttings of Pudica when temp was 40, I know a lot of ya`ll have yours in before it gets that cold but good info for those of us that are warmer, the established plant suffered no damage at that temp and retained its leaves.

What plumeria do you have problems with?

Tally HO!

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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

The only ones in patch to get BT or have issues some season are Lurline (never seen it bloom in 7 yrs that Ive had it), Donald Angus and of course Singapore White...

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 3:26PM
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Tally, thanks for those tips! Valuable information to have before we go crazy for plants that will give us heartache.

Was Emerson referring to growing Veracruz in the coastal areas of Texas or all over our state? You'd think being close to Veracruz, Mexico's climate that it would be well adapted. I wonder if Hawaiian Coral or Hawaiian Rose (VCR offspring) have the same problems.

Good to know about Hilo, but not surprising. And I can attest to the Nebel's RB BT problem. My cutting from CA started an inflo this summer and when I nipped it to let the cutting root instead, the whole tip went black. Now it's trying to push out side branches. I also have an unknown RB that looks like both IR and NR that has black tipped from a nipped inflo, too. But my Intense RB has given me no such problems over the last two seasons.

James, I have had black tip on my Singapores nearly every year--with no blooms as a result--so I'm passing it along to someone who will hopefully have better luck. And I've heard Lurline is equally frustrating, too.

And isn't the nickname for DA Donald Anguish?

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 5:02PM
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He also mention lurline as a "just break your heart" plant down here having no luck growing it.

I would guess he meant on the coast here. He is pretty close to the bay, a few blocks maybe?

Tally HO!

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 6:25PM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

OK, so why does Emerson think these varieties don't do well down there specifically? Too much unrelenting heat? Nights too warm? Soil not right? Too humid?

I have noticed that my Hilo Beauty didn't seem to like the 100+ degree heat we had back in July. Maybe the heat?

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 6:38AM
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Dave in NoVA • 7a • Northern VA

What does it mean to 'crater'?

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 9:58AM
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Minderella(9 Lake County FL)

Does this include Florida 9B?

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 10:07AM
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Cratered: doing fine one day and dead the next

No idea on other areas of growing. I didn`t ask him about them. He has plumeria planted all over the Florida Keys and when they go to FL for the winter he apparently tends to those plants and takes cuttings. I know he tries to encourage Floridians to use plumeria. You`re own your own for information, perhaps growers in your area can provide some information.

He didn`t know why these did so bad down here. I can only assume our high humidity plays a big factor. I wouldn`t imagine soil as ones in pots do no better than ones in ground.

Tally HO!

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 2:43PM
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surfbreeze(9 TX)

The only one I have that you mentioned here is Vera Cruz Rose. I am just down the coast from you. Hopefully I can prove you wrong. I have only had it since very early Spring, and as you have described it has grown like crazy all summer despite our heat, and also bloomed and it was very nice and fragrant. I will followup next year.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 8:44PM
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I`m crossing my fingers! Please keep me up to date, I may take the risk if I find one for the right price.
Tally Ho!

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 10:15PM
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Minderella(9 Lake County FL)

Tally Ho,
I dont know any growers in my area, that is why I get most of my information from here.


    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 9:45AM
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What part of Florida are you in Mindy? I know the landscapers in South Florida and the keys don`t use plumeria because they are dormant in winter when they have their busiest season.

Look on Craigslist, if there are any plumeria growers in your area you usually can find them here, they are generally trying to sell some to support their habits.

Are there any plant swaps in your area? Try the Florida forum and post to see, if so then you will probably meet a couple of plumeria fanatics at the swaps. Garden clubs are another good source of information. If all else fails when you are out look for plumeria in peoples yards, hopefully a gardener will live there and you will have a new buddy.

Sorry, I did`t mean to sound like myself in that post lol! Zone 9 can be such a varied zone. We are hot and humid with rare freezes but the same zone a couple of states over is hot, dry and cold at night.
Tally Ho!

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 5:20PM
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Minderella(9 Lake County FL)

I am in central florida, near orlando.

    Bookmark   September 26, 2012 at 9:10PM
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Hi All,
I am back from vacation.

I have great luck with Donald Angus. I have two of them. They are about 8' tall and bloom like clockwork every year on most branches. They have absolutely no problem with black tip rot. They make large inflos and it is one of the best reds. The are slow initially in blooming but once they get going they bloom every year.

I also have Vera Cruz Rose. It grows very tall but blooms every year with very large inflos. The branches stay green and grows new leafs in the winter (does not go fully dormant). It does not get black tip though.


    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 12:00PM
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Welcome back from vacation! I have 11.5 hours and my vacation starts.

Perhaps the cooler temps or lower humidity where you live? I was very sorry to hear about VC rose as it is so pretty and the smell is incredible. Roses struggle here, the campus has a rose garden that has 2 full-time gardeners and they struggle to keep those things going. So I am not surprised a rose smelling plumeria doesn't like us either.

Mindy, I've been to Florida but that's about it. I think Orlando is a bit warmer in winter and not as humid. Plus you don't have salt to deal with on a daily basis. That's about the limit of my knowledge of Florida. Oh, the seabean convention is next weekend in Coco beach, it's a blast, bunch of us beachcombers well, beachcombing and talking about beachcombing. Airfare prohibits me from attending this year It's at the library. I have some 100,000 year old crabs I found last time went beachcombing there.
Tally HO!

Here is a link that might be useful: ghost crabs

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 5:12PM
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I live in Sugar Land. We have hotter and as humid air than you do at the coast! It has nothing to do with temperature and humidity.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 5:29PM
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So there is hope! You're a whole lot colder in winter than us but hotter in summer. Are you ready for this cold front on Sunday? Might be in the 40's up your way, mid 60's for us.

Tally HO!

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 9:01AM
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Same problems with Vera, Lurline, and Singapore here in the Valley in So. Cal. Hong Kong (seedling of Singapore) does amazingly well with the same classic fragrance. The only drawback is that she has thin branches.


    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 5:34PM
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Since it was mentioned in another thread that Nebels's Rainbow and Lei Rainbow were actually different varieties, can anyone comment as to whether Lei performs better than Nebel's as far as BT or other problems?

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 10:24PM
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E, I think all the classic rainbows blacktip, which is why Emerson was so excited about Broomstick. And if we're confused about the difference between Lei and Nebel's, I'm sure there are some reputable sellers who are also using the names interchangeably. Maybe MPG could tell you for sure.

    Bookmark   October 7, 2012 at 9:49AM
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LR vs. NR: look at your leaves, if they are dark green, you have Lei Rainbow and if the leaves have a red border, you have Nebel's Rainbow. Lei Rainbow has a stronger scent than Nebel's. Nebel's has better keeping quality and is a larger flower. Note the pointy petals and how it is different than Nebels.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 9:45PM
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