Arrrgghh.... life is cruel, heavy branches break

mjhuntingtonbeachSeptember 6, 2013

I came home today and found massive branch off my pride and joy cracked off, gravity being a cruel fiend to my tree.

I have two plumerias I could try and use for rootstock, or I could try and root what is essentially a good sized tree in and of itself, although only a fraction of the whole tree, or I could get quite a number of good sized cuttings from this beast, at least 8 or 9.

Any thoughts? I have ZERO experience rooting, it is late in the season for rooting I would imagine.

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mjhuntingtonbeach

See how thick this beast is?

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 3:12PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

A very thick but clean break on the bottom.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 3:13PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

It was my Typhoon :(

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 3:14PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

I meant to say earlier I have ZERO experience grafting, not rooting.

Sorry, I guess I'm a bit upset.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 3:17PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey MJ,
A cutting that large and healthy, even this late in the season, will make it. Id let it dry out for a bit then plant it up with a solid stake or tied up to a pole somewhere. You should have no problems, but cut off the leaves and inflos as they will utilize the energy that could be used for rooting.

The other suggestion is cut it up and sell the cuttings as I believe Typhoon is no long available as the mother tree was destroyed in Thailand, so if I remember correctly this is a rare one no longer in circulation.

My condolences and congrats on all the new babies..

Cheers

This post was edited by freak4plumeria on Fri, Sep 6, 13 at 15:21

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 3:19PM
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nativec

Mike, I feel horrible for you! I think if that were my lovely Typhoon I would take Freaks first suggestion and try to root the whole thing. It may just be me but I couldn't imagine cutting up one so special. Let us know what you decide. Can you post a pick of what remains of your mother tree?

My best to you...

Nicole

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 3:42PM
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astrl

Me personally, I would root it. I have no experience grafting though.

So sorry to hear that though! I hate to have any branches break, much less a nice, well-developed one.

astrl

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 4:27PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Well the experts have spoken, I will try and root the large cutting and see what luck I have, maybe trim off a few of the branches to make sure it isn't too heavy. :) I had had plans to cut off several of the low hanging branches and had I known they were gradually pulling the branch off the tree I would have done so several days ago.

I'll post pictures of what this puppy looks like without leaves and flowers, and a picture of the main tree with gaping hole in it after I get back home tonight :(

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 4:27PM
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mksmth zone 6b Tulsa Oklahoma(6b)

I just want to say how awesome those flowers are.

JJ still offers Typhoon but at a steep price because of the limited stock. 2 gallon rooted is $109.00.

mike

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 5:13PM
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Mykel02

That's a big sized cutting... sorry to hear the branch breaking...
Your Typhoon looks so beautiful... a must have for me hehe... :-)

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 8:04PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

well a few more pictures, a gaping hole in my tree :(

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 10:35PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

and the branch, stripped naked :(

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 10:37PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

Hi MJ!!

I am so sorry to see this break on your beautiful Typhoon..

This accident will hopefully turn out in your favor since it will be a beautiful tree once rooted. I would try and root as James mentioned. It will do well for you I'm Sure.

Good luck and I'm so sorry for the break on your beauty....

I know you are upset.. I would be as well...

Take good care,

Laura

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 10:39PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Mike,
Oh Ive had a Plumie that was missing a branch like that. In actuality it might be a good thing as the plant will get more sun and air circulation. The other thing is the branches that are left will shift a bit to meet the angle of the light, so you should start seeing it straighten up a bit next season.
Still a gorgeous/healthy plumie.

Cheers.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 12:38AM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Thanks for the kind input James.... so yes, that one branch was so multi-branched I have been worried about it, I suspect what you say is true.

So, would you trim off anything from the bottom of the branch that broke off, or does the break look clean enough to you?

Mike

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 12:51AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Hey Mike,
Awhile back on couple of the different plumeria forums there were threads where plumie experts stated that branches that broke off and were left as is would root faster and better then if you cut it clean. Hetty Ford also tried rooting a cutting that broke off and was jagged and it rooted quicker than a conventionally cut cutting. Supposedly it has to do with survival mechanism, where the trauma causes the plant to root. Sort of like when a plumies is dying or sick sometimes when its on its last leg you will notice that the plant will try to send up inflos on all the tips as a last ditch effort to reproduce.

Here is an example of a Hilo Beauty branch that was broken off when the tree blew over during a Feb wind storm. The broken branch was not dipped in rooting hormone or calloused over. Basically the branch was found the next day when the tree was propped upright again. The jagged, rough cutting was just poked into the mother trees pot, even though it was cold and winter. The cutting was rooted, pic taken after the cutting was pulled out of the mother plants pot in June.

So basically Id leave your Typhoon cutting as is and just root it. I would also just leave all the branches on for now as I would not want excess sap to escape right now, you can always prune it later next season after it roots. This will give you a chance next season to see the shape of the new plant and decided after it leafs out if it needs a trim.

Good Luck

Cheers
James

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 4:27AM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Wow, James, a Hilo Beauty rooting that well during cold wet winter weather? Then that is what I will do, stick the branch as is, jagged edges and all into, maybe a 5 gallon and let it do it's thing. I'll give it another day or so to dry and maybe just a bit of rooting hormone to help it get going.

Thanks so much for your advice.

Mike

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 10:04AM
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nativec

Mike- I can see how this tree was your pride and joy! On a positive note you probably have more Typhoon trees than John:). I'm sure it's all going to work out perfectly, your mother tree will shift to compensate as freak stated and I'm sure you'll get that branch rooted. I don't know what your take is on sealing the spot on the mother tree where the branch broke. There's been lots of suggestions here on the board. Some leave it, some seal with DAP or others things once its dried a bit. I guess it's all personal choice. I hope someone will weigh in with their experience.

Keep us posted on your rooting progress. We're all pulling for you!

Nicole

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 2:04PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Hi Nicole,

Good question on sealing. I have never done it, and have found that most cut branches seal themselves off in time. Not sure what I should do here. I do have some tar based pruning spray sealant, maybe I should use that in a day or two. I've heard others use DAP sealant, I think it is some sort of calking compound, not sure if that will help.

I was debating shaving off the rough edges of the wound before I did that, rather than leaving rough edges stick out, but again, I'm a generic plant person, not that much of an expert in plumeria trauma center surgery :)

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 2:19PM
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nativec

Just remember that every good plumeria surgeon sterilizes....LOL. I think you'll know over the next few days if you're going to leave or seal. I lost a branch from a J-105 (not nearly as big as yours) and I left it. It's been fine but its pretty ugly. I was torn about sealing or not too....really is going to come down to what you feel is best.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 2:38PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Wow, you too had a J105 accident? After a bad year last year where my J105 hardly threw off a leave I decided to plop it in the ground. Late May I was checking that one and another behind it for growth and I guess I pushed too hard on the branch with my leg... broke right off. Happy ending, I now have a 5 branch new J105, rooted right away... and I gave a 7 inch cutting to a friend from Costa Rica and he now has a growing thriving J105 also. The last time I tried to root a J105 it took over a year to root and start growing. Go figure :)

So far I haven't inspected the broken end that I moved to face a cinderblock wall, but it seems happy :) I attached an awkward photo, you can see there is new growth around the top of that wound, but it has had 4 months to heal.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 2:59PM
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nativec

I see the little nub pushing out there. That's great! My J-105 "accident" is a bit more embarrassing. While misting the tree a lizard ran across my foot, now while I'm not terrified of lizards or anything...I jumped(I might have screamed too) and the misting wand wacked the branch right off...LOL. But I like you, gave the branch to a friend. So it had a happy ending. I've not checked for new growth where it broke but you have me thinking I should.

How many in your collection now? If I remember correctly you use much more restraint in adding new trees than most.... :). Which is amazing, I must say!

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 3:29PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Restraint? omg, I wish... although this year has been much worse than in recent years, usually I get one or two, get rid of one or two, had the collection at roughly 25, now, particularly after the JJ open house and the San Diego sale last weekend, and oh, let's not forget those evil tempters showing off their wares at the South Coast Plumeria Society open house in August.... I added about 11 :( I'm up in the mid 30's again ... sigh.... lol...

how about you?

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 4:21PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Oh I was going to say that sometimes in Aug, usually mid way through I actually cut off/thin the leaves off my plants as it adds a lot of weight, cuts down on light and air circulation and there is less that will start to drop later on. Mike looking at your pics, besides the heat, your Typhoon was thick with leaves, so maybe if you thin out some of your leaves it will prevent anymore breakage. Jus a helpful suggestion.
Cheers
James

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 6:04PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Hey James, great suggestion... I sometimes wonder if I just over water and over feed, I have a Thornton's lemon drop that broke on me too, just about this time three years ago, and I can see that one starting to droop now too.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 7:10PM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Mike,
With the weight and the fact that the leaves catch the wind, if your in a coastal are that gets the after noon strong breeze then that could be another for breakage as the wind can catch on the leaves and be strong enough to knock down large plumies in pots that I have, so if you thin the leaves out may not be as heavy and you reduce the drag coefficient.

Cheers

This post was edited by freak4plumeria on Sat, Sep 7, 13 at 20:20

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 8:18PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Wish me luck. Now in a 5 gallon, root hormone applied, two stakes to hold it up.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 9:40PM
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nativec

Looks great! Seeing it potted up really gives perspective to how large the branch (now daughter tree) is. I can't believe you were at the open house and didn't say hi! LOL. I was the one running around like a crazy person with the price list in my hand. I'm sure I blended in well :)

Adding a couple a year in my opinion is the equivalent of super human restraint. I've done much better this year than years past. To answer your question...ahem...well it's not an exact count but I think after this season I'll be in the high 60's. Shhhhh.... It may be more :). My problem is I'm not lacking for space so I use that excuse to justify "just one more". Then I look on this darn forum and that one more thing goes straight out the window!

Okay that was a long story for what was a short answer.

Hope you'll keep us up to date on Typhoon's mini me.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 9:51PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

OMG Nicole, you need an intervention, "just walk away from that plumeria" ;)

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm struggling to root two other much (MUCH) smaller Typhoons, if you'd like one let me know (no promises that either will root, it's a work in progress ;) )

Mike

    Bookmark   September 7, 2013 at 10:36PM
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nativec

Are you kidding?!? Do I want one?!? (Insert extreme excitement here) Please put me at the top of the list and name your price! That is certainly not one " to walk away from"... LOL. I'm good at justifying one more :)

Thank you for your kindness & intervention. :)

    Bookmark   September 8, 2013 at 12:01AM
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freak4plumeria(So CA zone 10)

Mike,
Next year the Typhoon will be AMAZING!! 2 Trees next season.
Looks so healthy that I can hear the roots popping now..lol
Enjoy your new plant!!

Cheers

    Bookmark   September 8, 2013 at 12:03AM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

haha.. from your lips to God's ears James... thank you :)

    Bookmark   September 8, 2013 at 12:11AM
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tdogdad(Zone 9)

If you want to trade the other cutting, I would root it. Let me know. Bill

    Bookmark   September 8, 2013 at 1:03PM
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

MJ...

Looks beautiful...

It really will be a awesome looking tree when it is rooted. I also have faith in you that it will root fine!!!

Good luck and Nicole is doing the " dance right now.. ". I can feel it here in VA!!" Sometimes, it's not good luck to counts trees... ;-).

Have a wonderful day MJ and I would seal that cut on the mother tree before any rot or bugs could attack that lovely tree. I also agree that the mother tree will fill in nicely. You could always train the limbs with a piece of rebar or PVC pipe like Bill uses. I would tie the branch to the rebar or PVC and gently start the pull of the branch in the direction you wish. James is also correct that it will naturally fill in as well.

Good luck!!!

Laura

    Bookmark   September 8, 2013 at 2:38PM
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No-Clue(So Cal Zone 9)

Mike,

So sorry to see this. What a shock! But she looks great potted up, so I am confident that you will have another gorgeous tree in no time.

    Bookmark   September 8, 2013 at 2:39PM
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jandey1(TX8)

WAH! Turned to WOW! Mike, that branch will surely root for you, so come back in the spring with more pics, okay? You have some great looking compact trees! The Typhoon is a knockout--hubba, hubba!

James, if you didn't get my last email message, your cutting rooted for me while we were in Kauai. Whew! She's looking very good and loving this Texas heat. Many thanks!

Jen

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 1:50PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

James,

Your comment about thinning the leaves made sense - I came home today and gravity and the prevailing winds was starting to push the remaining tree over.... I thinned as you suggested and grabbed what redwood stakes I had around to prop them up. Hopefully it works as we can get some near hurricane force winds sometimes that seem to gust in and around corners, things fly all over. I should probably find a few more sturdy stakes to use for the fall/winter.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 12:35AM
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texasplum(8)

Looks like your going to have another awesome typhoon next year! Hopefully the stakes and trimming help the tree! what a beauty

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 2:11AM
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130119

I too have had branches break off, my question is there something to seal the break to prevent it looking like this?

    Bookmark   January 13, 2014 at 3:46PM
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the_first_kms2(8/9)

Most recommend either DAP brand caulk (tan color) or Liquid Electrical Tape (black). The tan is more attractive. You could also clean up those cuts a bit. A better idea may be to cut below the knuckle and let it regrow. But thats a hard call to make without seeing the whole tree. If you choose to do that you can cut the knuckle off the cutting and attempt to root it.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 2:48PM
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beachplant(9b)

well ouch! Looks like a great save and a new fabulous tree has emerged.
$109 for a 2 gallon pot? wow.

Tally HO!

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 10:24AM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

10 months later and time is beginning to heal the wounds of my sudden branch loss last September. After losing that one large branch, I ended up cutting off the opposing branch in April to avoid the tree leaning off to the other side, so the 4 original branches became just two. The gaping wound left by the broken branch is almost healed over. The tree still hasn't grown out too much in the direction of the damage but I am sure it will over time. Blooming this year is a bit less, most of the inflos are buried deep in the foliage.

The large branch that broke off still hasn't rooted, very strange, but it is still firm so I expect it will eventually do so. Leaves are trying to grow out but they aren't opening up as I would expect if there was any rooting activity at all.

The tree as it looked this weekend:


The wound left on the trunk, gradually growing over and sealing up:

Some of this year's flowers:

The still, as of yet, unrooted branch, 10 months later:


    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 2:09AM
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barb13_gw

WOW! Those flowers are beautiful. Lucky you. Barb

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 2:46AM
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nativec

Mike,

Typhoon looks great!!! Thank you for posting the updated pic's. It looks like it's healing really well. Let's face it Typhoon is gorgeous regardless of temperature. Just wait until the August heat comes on :)

I know its been 10 months but I think your cutting is going to surprise you and root before the end of the season. It looks really healthy and like those claws are just waiting to pop. And wow, what great form. Its going to be a fabulous tree.

Nicole

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 12:56PM
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texasplum(8)

crazy that it has taken that long to root specially when its that big! Flowers look great sir!

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 1:40PM
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daogirl

I had two large cuttings (not quite as big as yours, but still much, much bigger than the usual cutting) take 17 months to root ... but root they did ... eventually. :)

Your plant looks pretty good for 10 months with no roots!!

    Bookmark   July 29, 2014 at 3:04PM
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beth7happy

This is a really good thread...my ears are perked because I have to make a BIG cutting before any possibility of a hurricane...a big storm would be sure to wreck my plant! This Typhoon looks awesome...even if it's not yet rooted, I bet it's not far. Just LOOK at those amazingly beautiful tips!! REALLY glad that I saw this year long thread and so good that you came back to share what has happened!!! Thanks.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 12:31PM
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Pondplant_kid(9b)

When there is a big wind storm approaching I usually cut off all the leaves of my favorite/ very large trees. Then they are more arrow dynamic. It really hurts to do it but when it saves the plant and doesn't hurt it Im happy. It just may look a little ugly for a few weeks.

Josh

    Bookmark   July 30, 2014 at 2:11PM
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TikiTropic(10b SoCal)

Mike - Those are stunning photos of your flowers!!

Hope your cutting gets going this year... keeping my fingers crossed for you :) Have you considered removing the inflo to give it a 'boost'?

Good luck!

Doug

    Bookmark   July 31, 2014 at 12:49AM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Well suddenly starting last week, the large Typhoon branch seems to finally have rooted, just shy of a year after it broke off my main tree.

Now my only question is .... what to do with another large Typhoon, and what appear to be two other cuttings that will soon be taking off.... an embarrassment of riches haha.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2014 at 12:17AM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Two weeks ago, all I had was the unopened claws. In another two weeks, without a doubt, fully leafed out.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2014 at 12:19AM
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jandey1(TX8)

Mike, I feel for you. Please let me help you in dealing with your too-many trees. It's the least I can do for the guy who tempted me into a J4 purchase ;)

    Bookmark   August 31, 2014 at 1:14PM
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mjhuntingtonbeach

Well now that it has leafed out, the one inflo that has been on this cutting since it cracked off the main tree has been blooming with some very intense colors. Small flowers but very intense coloring, almost similar to the picture in Jungle Jack's online catalog. I'm sure the last week of intense heat hasn't hurt, nor the stress of surviving without roots for almost a year.

    Bookmark   September 18, 2014 at 12:43AM
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