Where is Nor-East Roses Now?

aveo5March 2, 2011

I have ordered my mini roses from the Nor-East miniature Roses catalog for like the past ten years. Then online the past few years. BUT now I cant find them online, and I havent gotten their new 2011 new catalog this year. Have they gone out of business? Or what?

If the are still in business...what is their website address? Or a toll free number, for the east coast nursery if possible.

I cant believe that they went out of business. But all I get when I do a search for them, is get directed to Greenheart Farms? And they only have like 10 mini roses that Nor-East had like 3 years ago.

So...whats the deal? Can someone help me find them, Website,phone,real address anyway to get a catalog,online or a paper one in the mail.

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kathya11(8b/9a)

They were sold to Greenheart several years ago, and from my understanding, Greenheart longer sells directly to the public.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2011 at 5:14PM
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phil_schorr(z6St.Louis)

That's correct. Greenheart is basically just a wholesaler of minis at this point. You might try Burlington Nursery. They sell quite a few minis from Nor'East and Ralph Moore.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2011 at 9:34PM
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aveo5

Why the heck did Nor-east sell out?! They were charging a mint for their roses, and last year I bought my usual bunch,no mention of going out of business. Now I am finding out that mini roses are becoming rare to find??? Whats the deal? Why are the companies selling out? I usually get new fresh roses every year from them. Now I cant find a Scentsational or any of its sisters to save my life! Let alone any new fragrant ones. why are these companies going out of business. I KNOW i bought from Nor-East last spring....now they are gone? What is the big secret in teh mini rose world?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2011 at 11:38PM
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roseseek

Aveo, it's no secret. Business is BAD. An article written recently by Tom Carruth and Chris Greenwood (both successful commercial hybridizers)states from industry statistics that American rose sales are something like 40% of what they were a decade ago. Of the roses sold, a huge precentage of them have been Knock Out and its variations.

People die. People get old and retire. People get ill and close shop due to their health. Business shrinks and they can't make ends meet. Sales are shrinking dramatically for all the reasons we hear of every day in the news. Read the posts here of all the people who, instead of buying from these specialty nurseries, go to Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Every plant bought at a big box store represents one which was NOT bought from a specialty one.

Greenheart was initially going to remain in the retail business to keep these varieties available. Retail does not fit their business model. An article I read about them stated they have something like 8 employees and use a lot of computer controls to produce hundreds of thousands, if not more, plants annually. They can handle Home Depot placing an order for 10,000 plants of assorted varieties. They can't handle one person calling to ask what the difference between two varieties is then either not ordering or ordering a couple of plants.

J&P lost several million dollars a year for the last few years they existed. The company that purchased them is in bankrupcty. Conard-Pyle, a partner of Star Roses, is exiting the retail rose market to raise liners, like Greenheart, so other commercial growers can grow them to retail size. The millions Week's lost on the J&P bankruptcy nearly destroyed Week's.

We've lost Ashdown, Sequoia, Pixie Treasures, Oregon Minis, Uncommon Rose, Michael's Premier Roses, Tiny Petals, EuroDesert Roses and many, many others due to death, illness, old age, no sales. Many others' sites aren't updated because the owners had to take "real jobs" to eat. Vintage posted last year that without sales, that would be their last year in business. Is there any wonder why you can't find the roses you want? We are entering the rose "Dark Ages". Kim

    Bookmark   March 4, 2011 at 7:55PM
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phil_schorr(z6St.Louis)

Many of the minis you see in big box stores and grocery stores come from Poulsen and Kordes. They produce millions of mini roses every year using automated, assembly line methods. The chains that buy them, and the people that buy them from the chains, don't care about the names of the roses or whether they produce a better bloom than the ones the store sold two years ago. They just want a miniature rose as a gift or to look pretty in their house for a week or two. The specialty mini nurseries in the U.S. just can't compete with that while producing varieties rose fanciers like us want to grow. We don't produce enough volume to keep them going.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2011 at 10:06PM
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roseseek

Look at the other thread here about Kordana rose bought at Walmart. The poster wants to know how big it will get. Kordana is the series name for Kordes throw away minis. There are probably two dozen, if not more, varieties sold under that series. They likely have six or more of each color to be sold interchangeably so when a store orders yellows, they will have some yellow ones available. That means you can likely buy many different ones as the same rose. Ralph Moore commented to me once, years ago, how he hated what Meilland had done to mini roses. When you ordered Rise'n Shine from Sequoia, you got Rise'n Shine. When you ordered yellow minis from Meilland, you could have gotten a dozen different roses all under one name. He considered that making them disposable. That, they have.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2011 at 12:30AM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

There are still a few mini vendors around, but their stock may be limited at thie time of year. Try Rosemania.com, John's Miniature Roses, Two Sisters Roses, Roses Unlimited, Burlington Roses.

Rose growing is an expensive business. With the price of oil/gas rising, and shipping proces soaring, people didn't order enough roses for the companies to meet their margins, and the smaller vendors couldn't afford to stay in business. And as Kim said, Greenheart was set up to handle wholesale traffic, not retail. In addition, some of the vendors passed away, and their families didn't want to keep up the business.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2011 at 5:47PM
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phil_schorr(z6St.Louis)

John Saville sold Nor'East to Greenheart because he wanted to retire and no one else in his family wanted to take over the business. He stayed on in a consulting capacity with them for a few years, but then retired and they went back to all wholesale. It's a common story.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2011 at 9:35PM
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trospero(8)

Nor'East was sold to Greenheart for the reasons Phil stated. For a while, they continued the business model of previous years which included direct retail sales. A severe decline in interest in roses generally, and a decline in miniatures specifically, (they quickly fell out of fashion after a meteoric rise in popularity a decade ago) made retail sales non-viable for Greenheart. So, they stopped doing direct-to-public sales. They still sell wholesale to numerous other suppliers, such as Burlington Roses and others. (The Burlington Web site only offers contact info at this time, so email to obtain an availability list. www.roguevalleyroses.com also has a selection of minis) Getting the same rich selection of miniatures is no longer possible if one stop shopping is your goal; you will likely have to buy from two or three sources to get all the roses you want. There really isn't a nursery left that deals only in miniatures now, or if they do, their selection is limited compared to what was possible five years ago. Welcome to the rose industry in 2011.

Here is a link that might be useful: Burlington Roses

    Bookmark   March 9, 2011 at 12:02PM
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kathya11(8b/9a)

Distribution is pretty pathetic with Nor'East these days -- Greenheart deals with a relative few garden centers, and those in Florida, at least, are concentrated in a small geographic area (according to the list on their website). And the sad thing is, most of the late Frank Benardella's later introductions are being introduced through them.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2011 at 6:45AM
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lookin4you2xist(9b)

I can not AFFORD to make it profitable on my end. I took on 215 Ralph Moore minis when Nor'East closed. Along with 10 other "odds and ends" minis. I have collected more since that point.

I thought I'd have it all figured out. I have all the water I need. (Reclaimed Water from the City of St.Pete ... it works but it is not ideal) A slew of containers / liners ...you name it.

Space is a premium in my St. Pete garden. Many of my roses are just too cramped. I've taken over my neighbors yards. I have started to use 10 acres in PA. But,I usually only get up to see my family around the Holidays or special events.

Thankfully, my family can take care of them. But, they all have "real jobs" also. I barely get time to weed my garden, let alone time to really enjoy it. Spring is great here. Summer, the other 9 months,is HELL.

I would need a helper to get a business off the ground. I can afford my bills, but to hire someone at this point just is not in the cards.

The chain stores make it impossible for me to really turn a profit. I do not want to charge 20$ for a mini. Many people are casual rose growers. They buy a mini rose, let it bloom, and toss it. Some might plant it in the ground. But, it is hit or miss for minis in Florida's sand /soil. So, minis have a bad reputation here. It is endless work.

Grafting minis is good for my personal garden ...But, I'm not good enough to be the next Burling. Ebay charges too much to be an outlet for me. I had a gentleman selling my minis for a while last year. We had good traffic. Not a slew of buyers. He is a "snowbird" also.

It only takes one or two cards and you really start to feel the deck is not stacked in your favor. I tell anyone who is interested in minis to go to Burlington Roses. As always sucks to live in Florida, because for the most part, You can not get roses from CA.

From what I read, minis were a hit in the 70's. Not so much now-days. I could be wrong. I have not tried to raise liners, so I really do not know if that would be the only way to go for me. It is just frustrating on my end to have roses that are considered rare, and no way to really capitalize on it. With all the bigger names going under it doesn't help me feel that "Hey,I could make a couple bucks on this."

I'll stick with stocks and day trading. At least I can look out my window and see my roses blackspot and all.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 10:54AM
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tare(zone5b)

Have you tried John's Miniature Roses or Heirloom (they are related) on the west coast? I've ordered minis from both and was able to get what I wanted. They have a good selection (maybe not now). I used to order from Nor East and was very upset when they stopped selling. They had a notice on their website before they shut down. Maybe you missed it.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 2:40PM
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vissara(8 OR)

John's is actually getting some wholesale stock from Nor'east now, so it's worth calling them if what you want isn't listed on the website.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2011 at 1:00AM
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tare(zone5b)

I'd forgotten about Two Sisters. I ordered 2 from the Scentimental line from them last year and was very pleased with the plants. There are places out there that sell minis, you just have to look harder now. I could never find any locally that ever had any scent until I went online........

    Bookmark   July 5, 2011 at 4:50PM
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dan_keil_cr Keil(Illinois z5)

It's getting to the point if you want a certain rose you need to find someone who grows it and get a cutting. I wanted Charismatic. No one has it, so I got a cutting at a show and it's rooted.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2011 at 2:10PM
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