Neat thorns & foliage: Rosa hugonis or ???

boisenoise(5/6 West)June 17, 2007

Here is another unlabelled rose from the IBG that is needing to be ID'd. I haven't actually seen this one in bloom: it blooms earlier than most roses. As you can see, it has small, ferny foliage, and bright red canes and thorns (at least on new growth), but the thorns aren't so pronounced as on photos I've seen of the pteracantha or sericea roses. I think it may be 'Father Hugo' (which I've seen listed as rosa hugonis or rosa xanthina hugonis . . . I don't even know which of those names is proper!). Does anyone grow this rose and recognize it?

(One photo is in summer; the other is in November.)

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boisenoise(5/6 West)

This rose is just starting to form its hips, so I'll post a photo of those, too, in case it would help anyone to identify the plant for me. The hips are very round, and very small . . . only about 1/2 inch across. Surely someone grows this rose? If I can ever find out what it is, I will probably grow it myself! :)

    Bookmark   June 18, 2007 at 3:33PM
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berndoodle

Wouldn't it be so much easier it we saw yellow flowers?!?! You haven't really given us enough data to rule out Father Hugo's Rose.

Yes, it used to be called Rosa hugonis. Now taxonomists have decided that it is a form of Rosa xanthina. To properly denote the name of the species, you would italicize it and call it:
Rosa xanthina f. hugonis, syn. 'Father Hugo's Rose'

Here is a link that might be useful: Rosa xanthina f. hugonis at HMF

    Bookmark   June 18, 2007 at 8:22PM
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boisenoise(5/6 West)

Yes, I'm sure it would be easier with flowers! Sorry about that! However, as I said, I've never seen the flowers on this one . . . I've just never been down to the IBG at the right time. (I've gotten rather fond of it even without having seen it in bloom, though, because of its other features!) The woman in charge of that part of the garden said that she is quite sure it had small, single yellow flowers, but she wasn't COMPLETELY sure. She even said that it never formed hips . . . until I showed her the ones that are currently forming. She was convinced that it is 'Harison's Yellow,' but there is NO WAY . . . my neighbor has a 'Harison's Yellow,' and it is very different.

The one thing that makes me hesitant to definitely label it a 'Father Hugo' (or, okay, a Rosa xanthina f. hugonis, syn. 'Father Hugo's Rose') is that in all the photos I have seen (which are always of it blooming, naturally!), the canes are all arching and bending downwards. (That's true in the link you posted, too.) However, I haven't seen any inclination for these canes to bend! They are very stiffly upright! (See the winter photo, the middle one above.)

But perhaps the canes get weighted down only when in bloom? Or perhaps the IBG plant is more upright because of hard pruning? Anyway, that's the only factor that doesn't seem to fit the 'Father Hugo' profile.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2007 at 1:11AM
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berndoodle

If you scan through the shots on HMF, you'll see plenty of shots that shot canes that grow bolt upright. Most look rather angular, probably a result of being budded and hard-pruned. I wouldn't let that detail deter me. But I also agree it's too early without seeing the bloom color. Collect your images in a folder and wait a year. Count the leaflets and make sure the number is right. Sort through the details in this description. You should see leaves with leaflet counts of between 7 and 13. There's a link on the page to a line drawing.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rosa xanthina at Flora of China

    Bookmark   June 20, 2007 at 1:46AM
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boisenoise(5/6 West)

Thanks! I hadn't even realized that Helpmefind (a new site to me!) had more than the one photo per entry that comes up automatically. That helps a lot, with the other roses as well as this one! Thanks for the Flora of China link, too. All of those details ought to be pretty definitive.

I went to the IBG to check out the flowers when I thought this would be blooming, but I was too late. Grief, the thing must bloom in April, or very early May! I guess there's nothing for it but to check earlier and oftener next year.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2007 at 1:05AM
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bboy(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Looks like it, but can't be sure it's that particular one without more parts.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2007 at 4:09PM
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olga_6b

Canes, leaves and hips look like my hugonis to me.
I love early yellows.
Olga

    Bookmark   July 1, 2007 at 5:48PM
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joan_m(6)

I've got a number of the early-blooming yellow species. IÂll take a look at mine this weekend.

My first rose to bloom each year is R. primula. I know that about 1 week after my forsythia starts blooming I can find small buds on R. primula, and the rose is blooming before the forsythia finally fades (early to mid April). R. hugonis and R. xanthina (in my climate with a rapid spring) start blooming 7-10 days after R. primula. The rugosa roses donÂt start for another week or so after that (early to mid May). Most modern roses donÂt get into full bloom until late May or early June. Hope this helps on figuring out when to try to see this rose in bloom.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2007 at 8:57PM
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joan_m(6)

OK, I finally managed to check. The only one of mine that has thorns like the picture is R. xanthina. EXCEPT, it is also the only one with lots of new growth. The others have been moved or had water problems and don't have the masive new growth.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2007 at 8:12PM
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