Frilled Edge to Rose Leaf

Dublin29July 9, 2014

I am trying to identify a rose which is flowering now in the UK.. But perhaps nearing the end of flowering. I will post photos.

But a more general question. It has a dark dull leaf on top. Lighter underneath. But it has a frilled leaf edge. Are there a group of roses that have frilled leaf edges ?

Just a beginner with roses !

Thanks.

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Dublin29

This is the Rose I am trying to identify . If I can download the photos !!!!!! The rose is 8.5cm bloom diameter. one bloom at 9cm. Fades from light pink to a whiter pink with age. Dull dark green frilled leaves. lighter on underside. Bush about 5.5 ft at max height. Sharp thinnish thorns. Not too many.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 11:53AM
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Dublin29

Here's that leaf with a frill.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 11:56AM
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comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)

I think you'd call those leaves serrated rather than frilled. Could it be a Centifolia? Looks like an old rose of some kind, so it would be worth posting this on the Antique Rose Forum if you can't get a definite ID here. A closeup of the the stems with their thorns, and a description of the scent, whether there's any repeat bloom (if you know), and an idea of the overall size and shape/habit of the plant are all helpful additional pieces of info for ID of old roses. Oh, and a side-view of the flower with its receptacle and peduncle (the bulge and bit of stem immediately under the flower) if possible! :-)

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 1:01PM
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Dublin29

Thanks .I'll try & get those pics if I can in better light than tonight. A bit more info it was from a derelict cottage mid 1970's so could be an oldie. It has a strong scent. 5 leaflets to a leaf & spiky sepal ends (I hope that's what they are. I've got a pic of that already). I'd call the scent a bit soapy myself. But know everyone describes these scents differently. In the family we used to call it a cecille Brunner. But now I'm more interested in roses (only a beginner) I don't think it is one. Pic of sepals to follow.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 1:37PM
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Dublin29

Sepals pic. Spiked ens. Rose is pinker than caught here.

Cheers

    Bookmark   July 9, 2014 at 1:48PM
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comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)

You're right, that's not Cecille Brunner. Still looking Centifolia-ish to me, but which one, I don't know. Pretty sure it's old anyway - i.e. certainly not a Hybrid Tea or Floribunda; not a David Austin, maybe an old alba, gallica or damask. I see you posted on the Antique Roses Forum. Hopefully some of the highly knowledgeable folks on there will know - sorry I have only a fairly hazy knowledge of these old beauties. Another Q - are those 5ft 5" canes long and lax/floppy, upright or sticking out at odd angles? It's hard to pick out the shape/habit of the plant from the pix so far. Modern roses are often selected and can be identified mainly by their very distinctive/novel flower colours/blends alone, while the old ones tend to be grown and loved as graceful and interesting flowering garden shrubs, often with other interesting features besides the flowers - like those sepals - and fascinating stories/history to boot. If you are interested in learning more, browsing through the ARF is not a bad way to go, as well as catalogues, blogs, books and if you can, visiting display gardens to see them 'in the flesh'. :-)

    Bookmark   July 10, 2014 at 7:25AM
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Dublin29

Just previewed a long post, then lost it !!!!!!!. So just a short one. I'll get back with those pics. But waiting for my sister & her camera to take them. Not Lax in form. Buds are pink when opening. Have looked at Fantin Latour & Celsiana. But think not.. I'm considering Blush Damask ????

What is ARF please ?

Your help much appreciated on this one. My fav roses are wichurana ramblers. Do you have a fav ?

    Bookmark   July 10, 2014 at 9:52AM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

The first thing I thought when I saw the foliage was "that reminds me of my 'Yolande d'Aragon'." I don't think it's the same rose, since your photos show a much paler flower color. But I also don't think it's a Centifolia, since they should be finished blooming by now, and your photos show unopened buds. Centifolias are also more floppy in habit than your pics (and last post) indicate.

I'm thinking this is a Hybrid Perpetual, possibly of the "Trianon Perpetuals" family -- I'm thinking 'Yolanda d'Aragon', 'Sydonie', 'Baronne Prevost', et al. These HPs were more heavily influenced by Damask Perpetual X Hybrid China breeding than by Bourbons, and you see it in their foliage, sepals, and generally stiff, upright growth.

Being as you're in the UK, the list of possibilities is greater than if you were in the US. One that came to mind is 'Baroness Rothschild' but I'm not 100% about that.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Baroness Rothschild' at HelpMeFind

    Bookmark   July 10, 2014 at 1:14PM
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Dublin29

Going straight to Helpmefind AquaEyes !!!!!! To take a look at those.

Cheers

Derek

    Bookmark   July 10, 2014 at 1:22PM
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comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)

Hi Derek, how are you getting on? Sorry, ARF = Antique Rose Forum :-) Re wichuraiana ramblers, I adore Albertine of course (who wouldn't?) also Alberic Barbier, esp. when I saw it used along a fence, scented and creamy-beautiful against lush dark leaves in a friends garden in Devon. I am thinking that maybe wichuraianas suit the British climate rather better than here? Hard to pick my favourite class of rose, I have 'fallen in love' so many times! Some of the loveliest blooms of all are on the old once-flowerers, which don't do terribly well here (no winter chill along with too much heat in spring I believe is the problem); albas and gallicas etc. only bloom for a few weeks if you're lucky, which is fine if you have a big garden/acreage and can have different areas of brief seasonal interest. Noisettes, teas and chinas do best here (= all heat-lovers). I especially love the noisette, Mme Alfred Carriere, something about her 'undone' grace, like a very beautiful and elegant lady in her boudoir, still flushed from sleep, before she's washed her face or brushed her hair... She used to bloom magnificently in mid-winter here, at the same time as the almond trees; the two together in a vase were exquisite. She has also done v. well for my sister in mid-Wales, so is fairly adaptable, I think. I currently long for a R. moschata (species or close) when I eventually get my new garden going. Hope her flowers won't fry. If you're still trying to ID your rose, I would suggest moving the whole thing over to the ARF once you get the more detailed photos and full details, hopefully someone there will grow it or know it. I've had a look through the various suggestions so far, and am still not sure. I just don't see those long sepals on any of the likely candidates. :-)

    Bookmark   July 12, 2014 at 7:18AM
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comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)

Correction - Had another look at the photos of B. Rothschild on HelpMeFind, and DID spy one or two with a hint of long sepal! Sorry, Christopher! But still not with those big clusters of buds....

    Bookmark   July 12, 2014 at 7:44AM
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Dublin29

Hi Chris.

Been in the garden last couple of days ! Warm here. Have got some more photos. Apolgies, none of them show the form, because the border needs a really good weed. Once done I can get some of those as well.

I've been looking at Alba Maxima. It is really like it in the white stage. But don't think maxima starts out that pink.

Very interested in your post, Really good. I too like a " wayward looking rose" with muddled petals & that slightly unkempt look. Makes the seem natural. Im not a lover of "English Roses" - too perfect for me, & I don't like huge blooms. As you touched on. I think the aim has to be a continuous, long flowering season , spring to late summer. Yes Albertine is gorgeous, but I've heard it's mildew prone.
Alreadt got Dorothy Perkins driving me mad, my white Dorothy Perkins seems OK. Excelsa is a special favourite of mine. I'll post pics soon.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2014 at 3:57PM
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Dublin29

I believe this to be Felicite Parmentier after looking at the Albas. Could anyone with one. Take a look at the pics & see what they think ?

    Bookmark   July 17, 2014 at 5:13PM
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