What is this Old Outhouse Rose?

robbiezone5(z5 HudsonValley)July 6, 2007

our house was built in the early-mid 1800's, but i'm not sure when the outhouse was re/built. the outhouse still has toilet seats -- but we use it to store garden equipment, instead of its intended purpose. i don't know when this rose was planted next to the outhouse. a few years ago i pruned it hard probably at a bad time, because it is now taking a long time to bloom again. prior to that, it was covered with blooms. last year it had one bloom. this year i think it produced five or six. i've decided not to touch it anymore since i've already cleared out all the dead canes.

it blooms once, and is fragrant. the blooms are, when fully opened, about 3 inches across. the height right now is about 7 or 8 feet, but i think it may have been a little taller when i cut it back a few years ago. the canes do have thorns.

here are some photos...

fully opened:


buds:


full bush:

i currently call it "the outhouse rose", because i don't know the real identity. does anyone have any suggestions on what it might really be? if there is any other info needed to help identify, let me know, and i'll try to answer.

thanks for your help!

--robbie--

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lionheart_gw

Hi Robbie.

Lucky you! Even the old outhouse is bearing roses for you. Of course, it must have been a fertile field at one time. :-)

Your rose kind of reminds me of Manetti. It, like Ragged Robin, was once a popular rootstock. Check the link below and see what you think.

You see a lot of Manetti in the south, from what I understand. I wouldn't think that it's hardy here, considering the supposed China/Noisette heritage (look under the "References" tab on the link below), but I don't know for certain.

Compare the characteristics of your rose's canes and leaves with those of the pictures on HMF. If you recall what the hips looked like, there are also pictures of those on HMF too.

Your rose may not be Manetti, but there's a strong resemblance.

All the best,

Deb

Here is a link that might be useful: Manetti at HMF

    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 9:14PM
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petaloid(SoCal 10a/24)

I have a Manetti and that's also what I thought of when I saw your photos, so it may be related. Mine has smaller blooms, though, more like 2" across. I don't prune it and it blooms nicely each spring.

Here is a link that might be useful: r. manetti on HelpMeFind

    Bookmark   July 6, 2007 at 10:37PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

I third the nomination.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2007 at 6:16PM
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robbiezone5(z5 HudsonValley)

thanks --- i did see a photo on the "help me find" site that looks very similar to this flower. the biggest difference, though, are the photos of the red canes. this outhouse rose does not have red canes. the new ones are green, with reddish thorns.

also, we're in zone 5, and this rose gets absolutely not protection in winter. it's very winter hardy. it was my understanding that noisettes are not hardy for where we live. and the help me find says that it "blooms in flushes throughout the season," but our outhouse rose blooms only once.

the help me find doesn't give zone info on manetti, though. is it possible that a noisette could be so cold hardy?

thanks!
--robbie--

    Bookmark   July 9, 2007 at 3:43PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Shade from building could be keeping canes green. Look for signs of it being a rootstock, for example stumps left from scion with existing sprouts coming from around and beneath.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2007 at 10:58PM
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robbiezone5(z5 HudsonValley)

thanks bboy ---- i'll take a close look for that this weekend.

thanks!
--robbie--

    Bookmark   July 11, 2007 at 2:29PM
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york_rose

I'm not familiar at all with Manetti, but when looking at the pictures the very first thing I said to myself was, "That's an Alba."

Consider them as you try to name this! Albas have green new growth. Many of them have pink flowers, but the pink is generally gentle, and sometimes quite pale. If I'm right, the flowers of yours are about as dark a pink as they get. If it's an Alba and it's happy, when in full bloom it quite literally covers itself in flowers. The flowers are probably not simply fragrant, but are fragrant with a distinctly pure sweet scent. It probably also is not notably thorny. Prickles will be present, but they won't be the first thing about the bush that comes to mind when you think about it (the way they are with a rugosa, or with New Dawn).

    Bookmark   July 15, 2007 at 8:38AM
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