sandandsun(9a FL)September 3, 2013


I see that this forum is rarely used. As I am posting now in September 2013, the most recent previous post was the end of May 2013.

I have decided to post here even without company. I've learned over the couple of years that I've been posting on the regular rose forum and the antique rose forum, that new ideas, organic ideas, knowledge from 30 years of gardening in multiple climates, etc. are all mostly unappreciated there. They have a "if WE didn't say it, then it ISN'T true approach."

There are threads in those forums (you'd have to search for them) that document a mass exodus of forum participants due to the behavior over there. There is also documentation of how there "used to be" very knowledgeable well known participants in those forums who also stopped participating.

Even a rather recent post by an organic method endorsing American Rose Society certified rosarian who stated that the nay saying posts of (not his words) know-it-alls, was too much to endure.
Indeed, it is true.

We've had a revolution in rose growing in this nation thanks primarily to the introduction of the Knock Out roses. The other forums are still primarily "California focused." California was the source of all the ne'er-do-wells for decades, and yet....

Anyway, this forum should NOT welcome those who spray or apply fungicides in any form - or otherwise use chemicals regularly, etc. There was an unbelievable thread in the main rose forum where an individual asserted that since she used "a fungicidal drench" that her garden was "no spray."

So, I arrive here.

I realized or discovered while posting in the other forums, many readers are "lurkers." I did this myself for a couple of years. During my time posting on the regular rose forums, I had the rare gratification of having someone post acknowledgment of the help my posts provided them (even if it was well camouflaged). And also to have my ideas sometimes restated later (given sufficient time) as someone else's ideas which is in its way also gratifying (if one ignores how inherently insulting that behavior is).

There's an old cliche: "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

But, I believe that anyone who does so is only compromising his or her own principles or beliefs. Can you imagine our modern day if the Boston colonists had accepted the tax on tea?

By participating in the other forums and having constantly to defend my knowledge and experience against those who drove away the countless afore mentioned, I was depending upon the reader to be discerning. Here, in the 'Organic Rose Growing' forum there SHOULD NOT be any such issues. And if attempted, should be quite obvious. So I leave the main rose forums with, I suspect, as much pleasure as the countless others before me. I do reserve the right to "give 'em what for" should they badly need it, but the truth is they need it badly much too often.

But, I will not leave, at least not quite yet, or abandon you - the novice reader (or others) yearning to succeed by refusing to share my knowledge and experience when time and energy (T&E) allows. This does NOT mean that I'll be monitoring this forum to answer questions, or that I will necessarily answer questions because my T&E don't allow for that.

Cheers to the 'Organic Rose Growing' forum!

This post was edited by sandandsun on Tue, Sep 3, 13 at 12:57

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strawchicago 5a IL(zone 5a)

Hi SandandSun: Thanks for your honest opinion. I post in here to defend the Organic Roses Forum, recently someone came here to recommend spraying, with is totally inappropriate. Another person recommended chemical product for a seedling which is sick from over-fertilization.

GardenWeb stated at the head-line of this forum: "This forum is for those growing roses using organic methods. Organic gardening is most easily defined as a philosophy that stresses the use of naturally occurring substances and friendly predators and avoiding man-made chemical fertilizers and pesticides."

Besides corporate lobbyist and chemical pushers who invaded this forum, there's spammers who posted unrelated links. That's why I post in here, to defend the outline that GardenWeb established for this forum.

I'm with you on Knock-outs, it's environmentally friendly rose. I have a few Knock-outs, I never spray, fertilize, nor water them.

My philosophy for posting is to share my experience, so others don't make the same mistakes ... like mixing horse manure into my clay, with severe salt-burn. It was back-breaking labor to replace the soil of the entire rose bed.

Roses get the bad rep of needing spray, needing chemicals ... who wants to bother? My purpose of posting is to promote rose-growing. it can be a cheap and enjoyable hobby, without destroying the bees and the environment.

I believe in being nice and polite. I speak for myself, and never for others. It's about sharing one's experience, rather than criticize others. Some people post to dominate and to control, that's why I got out of other forums.

I'm here to post useful info., and to speak for myself. With other forums, some people spoke for me ... I find that controlling. It's more useful if folks share their own info. & experience, rather than nit-picking on others.

    Bookmark   September 3, 2013 at 12:44PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)


Be aware that we might not always agree on the details, and if and when this occurs, it will be a result of experience or location, etc., but I think we agree with very little doubt on the big picture.
I don't have time right now, but I'll try to find the thread and link to it where I wrote way-back-when that I liked your efforts.
I also intend to link to threads which demonstrate some of the behaviors I referred to above (again if and when T&E allow).
I'm going to be very busy for a while, so don't expect me back too soon, but I wanted to get the transition done.
Thanks for the welcome!

    Bookmark   September 3, 2013 at 1:04PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)


I've realized that I was mistaken about the use of this forum - thanks for pointing out that you are actively posting here and that my looking at the uppermost posts - that were not replied to, gave me an inaccurate conclusion about how recent the threads were.

I also realize that you were explaining that you post here because you may post without interference so to speak. I understand that now and even if we don't agree on details, I will attempt to keep silent about that.

Personally, I don't know that I will find value in that approach myself. I will continue to ponder the dilemma presented by these forums and my desire to help novices succeed - it may be that the two are irreconcilable. I'm beginning to believe that they are.

Good luck to you and happy posting!

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 10:16AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)


In the thread linked below, there are "who cares?" posts about the subject of being so offensive to someone as to drive someone away from a forum.
Who cares?

When I read the thread, the last post on it at that time blithely and naively defends offense as unintentional when no such excuse can reasonably be made. I'm not naive about such things; I'll tell you that.

I must say I really like the thread and think it is a great reference because it reveals by defensive posts and sympathetic posts the "hearts" of those posting. Don't get me wrong, there are other, neutral, arguably well-reasoned posts in the thread as well.

Now the thread has no direct relationship to me, but it is about someone else who gardens organically.

I find it MOST amusing that THEY think that THEY deserve credit - as in being the active force - "driving away."

I will add that in my case, I know that I AM the active force.

I left. I was not "driven away."

I left because I do not wish to be in such company nor to possibly imply my approval of such types by virtue of my association with them.

Overall, the thread reinforces that I'm happy to be HERE instead!

Here is a link that might be useful: Public Apology

This post was edited by sandandsun on Tue, Sep 10, 13 at 14:01

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 1:26PM
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strawchicago 5a IL(zone 5a)

Thank you, Chris (sandandsun) for your unbiased opinion. Folks, I don't know Chris outside of this forum. I appreciate Chris' calling it for what it is: forum bullying. In the other Roses forum, I was polite and nice so I didn't name who's the attacker, I simply left.

I'm happy to be here to have freedom of speech about gardening organically ... and that's what this forum is about.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 2:57PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

"...restated later (given sufficient time) as someone else's ideas which is in its way also gratifying...."

The time requirement seems to be rapidly decreasing.

Perlite, eh? Who said that was bad stuff?

Here is a link that might be useful: Three new bands

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 7:21PM
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Uh, YOU posted your information as your own, not someone else presenting what you previously presented as theirs. OK...given the laws regarding interstate transportation of "soil"; the drainage requirements of "under mist" production; and the weight reduction required to permit cost efficient shipping, what is your suggestion for a suitable perlite replacement? Kim

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 7:56PM
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I came here to learn

Also to share what ideas worked for me and post some pretty pictures with the rest of you

I think I'm the least experienced rose person here

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 11:33PM
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Perlite is good for seed starter, right? Also adding Peat Moss to keep its moisture inside the hanging flower pot or ferns, personally I prefer sand & pumice (horse, dry stall) for rose in the container, either band size or larger size. Hopefully there will be more input coming from anyone who wants to educate me. Thanks.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2013 at 1:09AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Hello kittymoonbeam!

I'd just like to say that we can all learn on most of these forums. Lately, I've been learning a lot of stuff unrelated to roses.

Also, I'd like to say that I really am impressed with the post by racin_rose in the Public Apology thread linked above and again below. There are so many good and true statements in that post. I'm not talking about the personal observations about specific folk, but the stuff after the first two paragraphs is impressive (at least to me).

Do you garden organically? I can't remember ever noticing you specifying. Last thing I remember is that Francis Meilland is coming along slowly - did I get that right?

Here is a link that might be useful: public apology

    Bookmark   September 13, 2013 at 2:39AM
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strawchicago 5a IL(zone 5a)

Hi Chris: I don't want to read the "public apology" made by M. to me ... looks like inviting the public for a second beating on Strawberryhill. It's like putting salt on old wounds, doesn't make me feel better.

There are old-timers who like control and dominate, and if I do it different from them, then I got discredited. It's bullying against newbies. It's about power and control, rather than being honest and sharing one's experience. I came here so I can have freedom of speech without being nit-picked on what I do in my own garden.

Some folks post to control and dominate, or to speak for others. I don't play the same game. My motto is to speak for myself always, and to share the mistakes I made in my garden.

I moved the perlite discussion into its proper thread.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, Sep 14, 13 at 12:18

    Bookmark   September 13, 2013 at 10:40AM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

It has been brought to my attention that my statement:
"Can you imagine our modern day if the Boston colonists had accepted the tax on tea?" in my original post in this thread might be interpreted by some as an endorsement of the modern day "Tea Party."

I want to be very clear that this is in NO way true.

I do not in any way support their disruptive and potentially economically disastrous tactics.

My mention of the original tea party was meant as a reference to a generally accepted turning point in the establishment of the independence of our nation.

The great strides we have made since that time, including our continuing present day advancements in freedoms of all sorts are truly American. Even if other nations rush to ratify our ideals before our process can make them realities, they are still American ideas.

Again, I do not in any way support the disruptive and economically dangerous anarchistic tactics of the political faction associated with that term. Nor will I forget or readily forgive the Republican party for holding the nation and the world to ransom under the guise of the power of this faction.

The House authors and authorizes all the spending bills; they, like the rest of us, should pay their bills NOW!

This post was edited by sandandsun on Sun, Oct 13, 13 at 14:18

    Bookmark   October 12, 2013 at 3:33PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

The Perlite thread mentioned above:

Here is a link that might be useful: Perlite

    Bookmark   October 13, 2013 at 2:30PM
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