On Wisconsin! Plunge right thru that line

duluthinbloomz4June 5, 2012

Looking for anything on the recall vote - really just early guestimates on the volume of turnout so far.

Minnesota Public radio is reporting a high turnout as reported by Wisconsin election officials. (Four busloads of Michiganders will raise the totals.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Trailways to somewhere in Wisconsin

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marquest(z5 PA)

I have a problem putting stock in anything FOX NEWS (FAUX NEWS). I would like to see the proof. They will say and do anything.

Do you believe this?

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 6:55PM
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houseful

That caller is definitely a plante!

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 7:06PM
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elvis

Firsthand reports (me, and a co-worker, different towns): records for turnout broken here. That could be bad; or it could be good. A lot of people have union people in their families; a lot of people are envious of union benefits, and don't want others to get what they do not have; hence will "spite" vote.

We're on pins & needles.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 7:10PM
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althea_gw

Walker must be worries about the high turnout if Fox came up with that story.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 7:35PM
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althea_gw

This is a good follow-up to the Faux news story. Without factual data, Drudge was reporting the exit polls show Walker is ahead.

"The Drudge Report this afternoon breathlessly reports that exit polls from Tuesday's recall election show Gov. Scott Walker holding his seat.

One problem, though. He provides no information to suggest that. The link he provides sends readers to an Associated Press story.

Republican and Democratic sources in Wisconsin told the Journal Sentinel that the numbers used by the Drudge Report are wrong. Sources said the exit polls showed that race as being much tighter than the conservative website indicated.

Later, Drudge updated his website, reporting that the exit poll showed a close race, but no recall."

Here is a link that might be useful: jsonline

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 7:53PM
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houseful

Elvis, I know you're against Walker for whatever reason. But isn't this recall about policy? This sounds like a scary precedent if he loses.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 7:55PM
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elvis

I'm a moderate conservative.

You're right; I am against Walker as governor and as a person (what little I've heard about him from schoolmates, etc).

He's a liar; I know that's normal behavior for a politician, but I don't have to like it. In a crazy way, he reminds me of Obama, whom I will also vote against. The fact that they both subscribe to the "divide and conquer" theory is something they have in common, and it's powerful and important.

And yes, if Walker stands, it will not be good news.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 8:33PM
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lily316(z5PA)

I guess it depends what you're watching. Ed Shultz is there reporting and thinking this record turnout will be a loss for Walker. Fingers crossed. Feet on the ground may trump the gazillion dollars from the GOP. If so we will do it for Obama in the fall.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 8:55PM
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esh_ga

And Obama polling ahead of Romney in the exit polls as well.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2012 at 9:12PM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Quiet tongues this morning.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 6:10AM
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ohiomom

Mornin Brush

Saw the news ... sure there are many that are delighted with the government they voted for, and then there are those who have to live with other's choices as it always has been.

♥Wisconsin♥

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 6:34AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Stock market soaring on the Walker win!

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 7:13AM
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maddie_athome

I don't think Walker "won" anything. We'll see about that.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 7:19AM
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esh_ga

Republicans high-fiving themselves all over the place over this - how they beat labor and the liberals. Even my lowly senate senator posted such a comment on Facebook. As if a state senator from Georgia would normally care about what happens in Wisconsin.

I'm disappointed that the people of Wisconsin didn't want to toss him. Apparently what he did wasn't so bad - I guess if he had passed off an old recipe as one of his own it would have been different. ;)

But I trust that the election process itself was fairly executed and that the result is accurate (and I mean that honestly). Of course the amount of money spent was incredible, especially the ratio.

But hey, that's $45 million that won't be going towards Mitt Romney's campaign.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 7:40AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

I regret the waste of union members dollars and funds wasted by the DNC.

Lesson learned.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 8:23AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Now that Wisconsin voters have spoken, perhaps some of you can organize an attack against the union busting, power hungry, FRIEND of the 1% Democrat from Chicago, Rahm Emmanuel.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 8:34AM
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maddie_athome

Oh we will. As soon as we see you take on Kasich.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 8:56AM
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david52_gw

Seems, however, that the Democrats won back the WI senate.

I was talking to someone from the upper midwest last week, and the subject came up about civil servant pensions. I don't know how wide-spread the practice is, but certainly the examples of gross excess he gave me - school principals earning 6 figure pensions after 20 years on the job stuff, are all that common.

Around here, that kind of stuff is only left for the very few, highly politically connected, and when the public finds out, the loopholes that allow it are closed.

The exception are fire fighters and police, which I saw that Walker left untouched. I know fire fighters who work a 48 hour shift in one town, sleeping at the station for two days, then another 48 hour shift in another state, so essentially a 4 day week, with two full salaries and two full pensions after 20 years service. Our fire district recently moved to full-time staffing, but the voters shot down a tax increase further supporting this, and the fire fighters went back to fewer staff with a mostly volunteer force. In a small town, word gets around.

The police here don't have anything like the 20 years and out with full benefits, but they do have that in major cities and other jurisdictions.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 9:03AM
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kingturtle(Zone 7 GA)

Goodbye Collective Bargaining, goodbye unions, goodbye Middle Class earning power. Hello tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, hello billionaire sponsored candidates, hello privatization and dime on a dollar sell off of public utilities as payback.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 9:37AM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Had Walker lost why would it have started a scary precedent?

Walker won, as I figured he was going to by Saturday.

He was able to raise total campaign funds of 30.5 million. Barrett was able to raise total campaign funds of 3.9 - with a far less percentage of out of state money in his own campaign pot.

Walker garnered 53% of the votes.
Barret garnered 46% of the votes.

The 26 extra million of Walker's campaign contributions garnered him only 7% more of the votes in that state. Only seven percent!

Now, that is an extremely bad value for so much money. BUT! He did win, in my opinion it would be VERY sour grapes to start talking about a win due to cheating unless it is proven that, but not for all the cheating, Barrett would have won the election.

Walker did beat Barrett - he won the recall election because seven percent of the voting public voted for him over Barrett.

But were I a conservative, I would't do any crowing or overly enthusiastic high fiving, and I would really question if that was a win to be at all proud of or to feel at all good about.

I would think that extra millions and millions and MILLIONS, twenty six extra millions! plus the continuing methods Walker has already demonstrated regarding his governing of his state's middle class citizen's income and that he will continue to persue with the state's middle class citizen's income should have bought Walker a LANDSLIDE win, not a measly squeak-by win.

Considering that conservatives and his own tea party so pubically approve of his methods of governing of the wages of his middle class citizens of his state who are the teachers, firefighters, policemen etc. etc.

That all the money did not buy Walker a landslide is not at ALL, in my opinion, a positive indicator for the future of conservative politicians or a positive indicator for the conservative message.

But, time will tell.

Walker represents the tea party, the tea party is still alive and well - there are still a *dumbfounding* number of birthers who will continually and even publically (even right here in this forum!) declare their doubts regarding their President's birth certificate.

Hey -it all makes the world go around!

The percentage of out of state campaign contributions Walker garnered is another complex topic of debate entirely, I suspect. One that certainly would make for good reading.

JMO

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 9:59AM
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demifloyd(8)

Let me get this straight--Walker won, and by a MUCH LARGER MARGIN than was predicted, and it's only because of money.

Had Walker lost, then the "people" would have spoken.

I've got it.

When Obama won, the "people" spoke.

If Romney wins, then it's only because of money, right?

Obama's got the money AND he's incumbent.

What will be the excuse if Obama loses?

Oh, that's right, same excuse Obama's vomited for the last 3 1/2 years.

George Bush.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 10:19AM
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kingturtle(Zone 7 GA)

Perhaps Walker won because (as exit polls showed) a huge majority of Wisconsins, even those who disagree with him, believe that recall elections should only be for malfeasance not a difference in policy. The next election cycle will show whether Walker's recall win translates into an endorsement for a second term.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 10:31AM
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houseful

That's right, Demi. They are setting up the excuses now for a possible Obama loss in November. I'll reiterate that November can't come soon enough!!

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 10:53AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

Goodbye Collective Bargaining, goodbye unions, goodbye Middle Class earning power. Hello tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, hello billionaire sponsored candidates, hello privatization and dime on a dollar sell off of public utilities as payback.

KT, are you referring to Wisconsin or Chicago?

Maddie,

I prefer our current governor over Strickland who punished taxpayers with $8 billion deficit just to keep his "friends" happy. Ask Mom about Mr. Strickland.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 11:04AM
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esh_ga

who punished taxpayers with $8 billion deficit just to keep his "friends" happy

Isn't that what Walker did? Created a budget issue by issuing tax cuts and then went after the unions to get the new budget issue fixed?

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 11:09AM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

I don't care about Walker. I live in Ohio.

And trust me, the budget issue in Ohio wasn't created by anyone other than Governor Strickland who handed out benefits to his union cronies as if they were cupcakes. Oh, and he also bashed Obama the candidate and lost his favor among Ohio Democrats.

You don't know anything about Ohio besides what you read in your slanted anti-Republican news leaks.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 11:25AM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Houseful, take note that never once have I predicted that Obama will win the re-election in this forum. In fact, I think there is an excellent chance that he will not win the election and have said so several times.....so I'm not "setting up" anything for any excuse.

Are you?

I have also cautioned people, several times, about making predictions about Obama winning the November election or making statements like "November can't come soon enough!"

Stuff like that always ends up being spoon fed back.

Unless, of course, you mean that you are excited for Obama to win.

Or, you are just so excited for November to come because you just love that month!

So, now you know...no excuses from me!

You will have to hunt elsewhere for those excuses.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 11:41AM
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esh_ga

You don't know anything about Ohio besides what you read in your slanted anti-Republican news leaks.

Huh? And what "slanted" news leaks do you think I read?

I do know what my sister in Cleveland tells me. I guess she probably doesn't know much ....

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 11:43AM
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maddie_athome

So it's ok when Kasich does it?

Got it.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 12:31PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

I find it stunning, the bitterness that is STILL expressed when anyone at all including the President himself, remarks upon the dangerous financial mess which Obama inherited the day he was sworn into office.

Stunning.

It has not yet even been four years yet since Obama took his oath, and then he had to learn the job on the job - and had a financial mess unlike any that any other President has had to deal with from day 1. Besides the serious problems with terrorism to deal with.

And yet conservatives here in this forum all continue to so bitterly complain that liberals and Obama himself tends to feel the need to remind you all of the state the nation was left in when he took the oath.

Just like conservatives so complimented Clinton when Bush inherited the AMAZING financial stability he was so fortunate to inherit? Sarcasm.

No, I wasn't here when Bush was sworn in. But I was around the internet during the Clinton years and never did I ever ONCE hear a single conservative (including myself) EVER compliment Clinton on anything at ALL....including his ability to quickly balance the budget. Nor would I believe it if conservatives in here started claiming how they did so compliment him on how he left the state of the economy which Bush/Cheney inherited.

It's not like anyone was so foolish as to even insinuate that from swearing the oath day, then Bush/Cheney were responsible for the fabulous condition they found the economy and Clinton no longer deserved credit! Who would ever be so dim witted and foolish to attempt to make that statement?

And yet people in H.T. and I'm quite sure the conservative political forums across the great expanse of the internet have no problem continuing to hold Obama responsible for this mess from day one and was angrily outraged by month 5.

Only in great hindsight, long after Bush/Cheney trashed our economy and Obama was already in office did little mentions about Clinton's wonderful gift of leaving Bush and the rest of us a great financial stability did a hint of admiration creep into the discussions when his name was mentioned.

Until Obama was in office, only fierce support for Bush was taking place - until the last few months of Bush's second term.

Then suddenly no conservative (except for Bill and one or two others) were repubicans anymore - viola! they were Independents who's main concern was the economy which they were sure McCain and Palin herself had the cure for!

I get very tired of the faux blindness and all too real resentment on this particular subject regarding the inherited mess - and often wonder if being obtuse on the subject is actually really nothing more than a political tool/ tactic used so that the inherited mess doesn't have to be actually and rationally discussed - which might mean that honest dialog would have to take place and sympathy or GASP! a touch of admiration might have to seep through during those discussions when it might be mentioned at how Obama pulled us back from the very edge of the ruin of our country.

They just can't do it. Just can't. It's their own country, the mess created by the guy they voted for, some twice, and they just can't bring themselves to do it.

The argument that Obama doesn't have the right to talk about the inherited mess comes from a place of great many American's ill will and dishonesty because they lost the last election - and specifically that Obama himself won.

Is the gut dislike of Obama really THAT great?

Because all of this chatter of resentment regarding the term "inherited mess" began within four months of the swearing in- when the economy was deeply terrible and suffering still from unexpected free fall. It all was so very, very much worse than anyone ever realized even on swearing in day.

And then active and loudly vocalized conservative distain began at 8 months when the problem wasn't fixed, repaired, over - only good times ahead!

The subject of "inherited mess" was not and has not been an honest criticism of Obama.

I also don't buy that it's been repeated so often now that conservatives who keep saying it maybe actually began to believe it.

Which was actually suggested to me on another forum.

I think they just keep saying it because then it gets them off a despised hook - the hook of maybe having to actually state - even discuss - their own President's accomplishments in the face of disaster of their own country.

And people in this forum have been critical regarding my negative assessment of the character so very many of the people of my country and my dim view of the fate our country faces due to our own poor behavior and lack of honesty and great character?

I think I will break again for a little while. Things continue to appear to me to seem very odd and unsavory in H.T.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 2:54PM
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demifloyd(8)

We just don't like whiners and excuse makers.

Obama said he could make it better, and he didn't.

I think he made it worse.

Some disagree.

I have no doubt it will be even worse if he's reelected.

Nothing else matters, the past is the past.

Obama has been president for almost four years.

Boo Frickety Hoo as to the "on the job training" excuse.

He asked for it.

He said he would bring Hope and Change.

I don't want four more years of what we've had.

It's that's simple.

Has nothing to do with the man himself; the Wizard of Oz could have been in control and I'd still feel the same way.

Wait---maybe that's what happened!

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 2:57PM
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frank_il

Wonderful post, mylab.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 3:01PM
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kingturtle(Zone 7 GA)

So you think we are no better off than when we were hemorrhaging 700,000 jobs a month rather than adding jobs as we are now, banks were collapsing daily, the auto industry was on the verge of collapse taking millions of auxiliary manufacturing jobs with it, the economy teetered on the edge of a depression, we were shoveling Bush's TARP bailout at the banks, and Bin Laden lurked around the corner? ROTFLMAO!

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 3:06PM
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demifloyd(8)

Some things are better, Kingturtle.

I don't credit Obama with all of it, but some of it.

Most anyone could hold the helm steady through some dangerous waters and still manage to chart a course headed straight for icebergs.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 3:21PM
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david52_gw

Yes, what we need is more deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 3:28PM
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ohiomom

Tax cuts, deregulation, drill baby drill ... that's all they got.

"lockstep"

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 3:31PM
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folkvictorian(4)

Ohiomom, please find a lawyer and sue the high school from which you graduated. They clearly let you slip through the cracks, and that's a shame.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 3:43PM
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lily316(z5PA)

Moderator: Pay attention. There's some slandering happening.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 3:49PM
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ohiomom

Shush Lily ... not to worry, I know who and why this arrow was shot.

It really is no big deal and says more about the person than it does about me.

But thanks for caring ... :)

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 4:15PM
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heri_cles

brushworks said:
Now that Wisconsin voters have spoken, perhaps some of you can organize an attack against the union busting, power hungry, FRIEND of the 1% Democrat from Chicago, Rahm Emmanuel.

You have made mention of this several times now, but have never explained what you mean. It is apparent that you do not know that many Democrats in Chgo and in the Chgo metro area do not support everything Emmanuel has been doing with the Chicago Public School system. You also do not seem to understand the issues.

We have a structural problem with our schools in Chicago just like other major cities have been experiencing. We have large, inefficient, and expensive to maintain public school buildings in areas that no longer have enough students to attend. In addition to low attendance, the Bush Recession and housing bubble have lowered the real estate tax base. Many homes are vacant and some bulldozed. After the white flight in the late 1960's and early 1970's, many mostly segregated white neighborhoods, especially those with affordable and simple homes, became inhabited with low income minorities. Many of those houses are 60-100 years old and some have since been abandoned or bulldozed.

Of course we know that many students that attend inner city public schools are from low income and single parent households. Some of these neighborhoods have a high degree of high school dropouts and are located in areas with a lot of drug dealing and gun crime. Some choose to blame these minorities, the single parents, and the minority communities for a lack of personal responsibility while doing nothing, but that is another issue..

In defense of Emmanuel, he had to do something given the reality of the situation...a decaying, costly school infrastructure, low attendance, low tax revenue, crime, drop-outs, etc.. Where I part ways with Emmanuel and to some extent with Obama, is on the replacement of public schools with private for-profit charter schools. I acknowledge that there has been some success with these Charter schools, but in my opinion, that does not mean that they should be in the hands of private for-profit corporations.

I support a strong public education system for many reasons, but that too would be for another topic entirely.

Back to the topic here, cable news and other media outlets put a lot of stock into this recall but they never mentioned a few obvious reasons why Barrett lost. First and foremost, the guy had already lost to Walker before. Secondly, Barret was an extremely weak candidate who lacked charisma and the ability to convey a message that could resonate beyond Union households. Most Democratic voters have no dog in the Union fight and are concerned with a myriad of other issues impacting them. Barrett failed to draw a contrast on those issues with his opponent in order to excite non-Union voters to go out and vote for him.
Having said that, I think that Republicans who believe that Barret was a proxy for Obama or a prognosticator for the Fall election are reaching a bit. The exit polling from Wisconsin voters showed a stunning 11% margin for Obama over Romney. Obama never entered into the fray on the recall because he saw the writing on the wall for Barrett, who probably could not win any Statewide election against any decent opponent, especially when that opponent had ten times more campaign money, paid air-time, etc..

Wisconsin will be contested, but the issues will be joined more forcefully and with a better candidate than Barret. And never forget about Romney's negatives. A lot of people dislike that guy for a lot of reasons, especially in the Midwest.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2012 at 4:51PM
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