Juvenile vs. adults growth

bonsaigai(NY Zone 6)June 15, 2012

Pirate Girl mentioned the difference between juvenile and mature growth on plants. I was actually discussing that with Norma also. This morning I was looking at the plant, thinking...

Does a plant revert to juvenile foliage when divided too young? If a plant like fischeri is divided, is it "set back" to juvenile state? How about masoniana, cutting the larger rhizomes, will it be considerably smaller the next growing season?

Throwing it out there...

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Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6

Yes Michael it does this very thing. That's why I told some to leave the pups grow. They get bigger each time. If removed, the mother stays small and so do the pups. The longer left on, the larger they can get. There was a web site that talked about this very thing. Sooner or later the growth is going to try to reach it's full size. Or maybe that's were the hahnii's came from??
I bought a gold hahnii bird' nest and when it puped, they grew double the size of the mother plant. Left alone now they maxed out to about 10 to 12 inches.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2012 at 3:54PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL(8B AL)

I think I have an example of this?

These 2 babies were separated from the mama (kind of accidentally) a little over a month ago. They looked like white carrots with no disginguishable leaves:

At the same time, these babies were poking up and left attached to mama:

    Bookmark   June 19, 2012 at 10:52AM
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bonsaigai(NY Zone 6)

Thank you all. I've been thinking that in those cases, it may happen. The pictures are especially telling. Leave the offset on as long as possible...

I was also wondering, if an offset is removed from a mother plant, when it ALREADY has mature foliage, will it continue to have mature foliage or will it revert or be stunted?

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 9:24AM
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albert_135(Sunset 2 or 3)

A tangent, something I always thought interesting, but then I am a tinkerer, is that the juvenile form of some Sansevieria grown from seed may persist for several years.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 1:43PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL(8B AL)

I think I'm finished fiddling with these until fall at soonest (except the leaves I'm trying to root.) I want to compare the difference, too. Will it just be rate of growth, or also eventual size?

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 5:14PM
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pirate_girl(Zone7 NYC)

Maybe it's me, but I think you all are overthinking this a bit. I don't particularly believe in this reversion business, I think it's completely different types of growth.

I think I'll look to Norma for the final word on this as I don't think I believe (or even really understood the postings above).

I will say I haven't seen her around lately, though it sounds like BonsaiGuy spoke to her. Why not ask her since (1) she'd likely be the best authority for us on this topic & (2) you're already in touch w/ her & I haven't seen her around here lately.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2012 at 6:42PM
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I just wrote a long message and hit a wrong key it is in Cyber space now. I will attempt this again tomorrow. Pirate Girl you are correct, you know far more then you give yourself credit for. I'll write another note tomorrow, and try again. It is very difficult for me to write now. Norma

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 2:56AM
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bonsaigai(NY Zone 6)

Definitely Norma would be the best authority.

Unfortunately, I DO tend to over think things...

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 7:59AM
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pirate_girl(Zone7 NYC)

Hiya Norma,

Thanks for chiming in, am sorry to hear typing has become difficult.

You & your words are very kind. Yes, my dear you taught me well; I also have a good sense of intuition & when to use it. This explanation just doesn't sound right to me & I can feel that.

Now a tip about typing, so as not to get text lost in Cyber space. It's happened to me too Norma, I'm sure to others as well.

For Norma & everybody else:

I am an ex-word processor & as such, am lazy & wish to make the computer do as much of the work as possible. After I too hit a wrong key, sending my text in Cyber space, I remembered a good idea.

After writing your text out, Copy it as if to make a 'copy & paste' out of it. This makes it the last thing in your computer's memory (before you invoke 'Paste'), so if one hits a wrong key or somehow sends the text into the Ozone, once one gets back to the screen where one wants to be, then invoke 'Paste' & there's your text (without having to retype it).

After 10 yrs. on GW, I have trained myself to do this automatically. For those who write lengthy posts that sometimes take a lot of time & thought to compile, it might even be worth it to save those writings as Word docs, which one can then cut & past into posts was they come up.

Glad to see you Norma, have been thinking of you, ((Hugs))

Your Pirate Girl Karen

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 12:09PM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL(8B AL)

Excellent advice, PG. I've been zapped a few times, too, and I give you my sympathy also, Norma, and appreciate the effort.

My thought from my recent experience is that being attached to the mama allows the resources and production of "food" of/by the mature leaves to be directed to the pups, giving them the ability to grow faster than the severed ones (with nothing on which to base an opinion about how it might affect their eventual size, staying out of that part.) Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 12:21PM
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bonsaigai(NY Zone 6)

I re-read my post and can see it's confusion. The term "reversion" is especially misleading. My (more complete) thought was... wondering if new pups that form from a separated, mature leaved offset will be juvenile in form. I think I remember seeing that occur in fischeri when a mature growth was removed, it produced pups that were juvenile leaf forms until the plant re-established.

Anywhoo... maybe I'm just over thinking it again... and should just watch and wait.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 12:48PM
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pirate_girl(Zone7 NYC)

Again, just my opinion BG, but overthinking. Juvenile forms (by definition) are the first, youngest growth, it's not reverting or abnormal. Juvenile == youngters, I believe it's just that simple.

Don't kids become toddlers before they become little children & then adolescents?

One can't be born as an adult, comparably, how could a pup first emerge as anything but juvenile? Again, overthinking & illogical too (sorry)?

There's your key, watch & wait!!

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 2:04PM
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bonsaigai(NY Zone 6)

Got it >> Watch and wait...

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 3:39PM
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pirate_girl(Zone7 NYC)

PS to BG,

Just in the interest of full disclosure BG (;>), I sometimes overthink things too. Guilty, I confess, it's just that the topics in question are usually something other than plants.

Not the worst thing in the world, by any means, but worth remembering.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2012 at 10:16PM
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Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6

I do have the original mother plant that stayed as a hahnii and it's pups over grew it. That plant can be separated and grown on and stay that size. There is a limited number of leaves a rosette can produce. It can just stay small with a few leaves until it decides to pup again and start the whole process over again. Also small cut pups will stay small. New pups from them will resume there true growth. I have see this myself and have read a paper on this on the internet. Wish I can find it again. I am still looking. I think Norma will agree with me on this. I am not saying you can create a dwarf this way but a plant will be stunted. Sans seedlings are just this way. Pup start producing the large growth. Seedling plants stay small.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2012 at 4:48PM
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Stuch, thue, but you must grab the plant when it a wee little one, put it in a small pot and treat it like a bonsai. There is a man that specializes in this. It is hobby and a challange for him.
It doesn't matter if you take the bably plant off too early, and move it up to a larger pot each year until it reaches full growth. If you don't want to bonsai it. As you make your own mictakes you will learn, observe them, write down you mistake, It helps to think of them as people. They can sunburn if not used to the sun, they need food to eat, and water, they need air, need to be free of insects, ints, mice anything that will do them harm. once the parent plant has flowers it will not flower again, but produce offsets. Register all of your plants in a book, and put the same number in the book and again on the pot. Use a white china marker. If you see small black ants, use baking soda mix generously with Sweet and low it has enough poisen to kill ants. It was created to kill pests. But it is sweet and they could make more money selling it as a sugar. here are many more ways to kill ants. Norma

    Bookmark   June 25, 2012 at 3:23AM
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Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6

Thanks Norma,
Nice to know what we are eating. I don't like the sugar subatutes myself. I will have to remember that ant trick. Hope all is well with you. Hows the weather over there? I am lucky here that we don't get the big storms or fires or all the other dasters I been reading about.

    Bookmark   June 25, 2012 at 7:38AM
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