SL41 waiting game

warddaAugust 13, 2008

So when does this sage bloom? My three plants from seed have reached 5 feet but show no signs they will ever bloom. I didn't think it was a fall blooming sage.

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rich_dufresne(z7 NC)

I don't know what your summer is like, but this year my Salvia SL411 are a bit slow. I am getting some bloom on the medium-sized plants, though. I have one big, old stock plant that is hanging tough, but is in need of fertilization. This one looks like it needs ample watering and fertilization.

At the Salvia Summit, someone in an audience commented how new sages don't do as well the second year. Though I've noticed this repeatedly, I've never commented on it before. It may be that it takes a year for inhibitory microflora and microfauna figure out how to use it as a host. I suspect that plant size, fertilization, and temperatures have a lot to do with it. This is a good topic to research for a future Salvia Summit.

    Bookmark   August 13, 2008 at 9:44AM
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wardda

We had a cold May followed by a very hot and dry June and July - less than 2 inches of rain each month. This has set many plants back by several weeks.

I wonder if you can expand on the comments about microflora and microfauna. I know that in most plants they are valuable aids in the uptake of nutrients and that many plants have very specific alliances - Lady Slipper Orchids come to mind. Why the 2nd year?

    Bookmark   August 13, 2008 at 12:38PM
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rich_dufresne(z7 NC)

My plants are in pots and it may take two years for the microfauna and microflora to find and interact with a new plant in a no-longer sterile medium. New sages might not be able to form proper associations with native micro species and might grow well the first year because there are no interferences and they may thrive with proper fertilization.

On a related note, collectors have often found that planting clean seed of a species directly may aid with adapting to local micros. Cutting propagated material may have alternately adapted and may not make the adjustment to a different local micro environment.

    Bookmark   August 13, 2008 at 1:30PM
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robinmi_gw

Would re-potting regularly, in clean compost help? Or a little fertiliser now and then?

I have also noticed how some Salvias perform better in some years. But, I think that our crazy climate does play a part!

    Bookmark   August 13, 2008 at 3:44PM
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wardda

I can't afford to buy sterile medium for all the plants in pots. Mine are filled with composted wood shavings and horse manure. On Richard's advice this year I'm also using Osmocote since the compost tends to be rather low in nitrogen. The potted plants are all thriving except corrugata which has been at a virtual stand still since May. Considering the vast range of climates from which these plants were collected, especially both of your collection, it would not surprise me if many sages felt they were living in a crazy climate. The climate in the eastern US is such that a little sage diversity isn't always a bad thing, some years we live in a rainforest and other years it seems more like a desert. Often it is not year to year by month to month.

    Bookmark   August 13, 2008 at 4:13PM
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hybridsage

Wardda
First climate does play a vital role with many species not
just Salvias. You have to be very careful with compost too.
I have had lots of crop failures do to compost not being
properly heated up to destroy any bad pathogens.Even with
plants that are easily grown in your climate. You have to
go to a business you trust. Second expermenting with some
biostimulants for individual Salvia species.One I have used
is with great results is called Bioform.Another way of developing good microbial activity in soil is Horticultural
Molasses. Something else is to develop "Soil Recipes" for
certain Salvias that don't perform as well in your standard soil mix. We use different micoriza when planting Quercus spp. then a totally different one for Legumes the growth from this has been unbeleaveable. The plants also adapt to their new environment much easier.The other half is some plants live some don't, growing from seed does make plants more adaptable to local microflora and fauna also.

    Bookmark   August 13, 2008 at 8:49PM
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wardda

I've never lost a plant to pathogens from compost, at least not that I can recall. Recently I began trying something new when potting up newly rooted cuttings. I am trying to use the soil in which the cuttings will eventually be planted. It has worked out very well, especially in plantings that don't receive supplemental watering.

Thanks for your advice, it is an interesting subject

    Bookmark   August 14, 2008 at 10:04AM
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hybridsage

Well we add lots of things into our compost here different
manures, eggshell,kitchen scraps etc...so it needs to properly heated. I have stopped buying the first batch of compost after winter that has helped a lot. Good idea adding
the local soil they are going to be planted in that helps.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2008 at 11:13AM
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robinmi_gw

Re the waiting game for Salvia SL411....I am beginning to get impatient, as to how many more years it will take before this is botanically described and named!!! As far as I know, it is a previously un-named species, related perhaps to other species, I believe that a name has been given, which has not been published yet, as botanical drawings are STILL awaiting publication, from Mainz University, I think....lack of finance, perhaps.

This delay will only cause commercial nurseries to give this beautiful Salvia a commercial name.

PLEASE, can someone in Germany, or wherever pull their fingers out and correctly name this wonderful Salvia???

I have been criticised for distributing seeds of this. I was not aware that I was should not have done so. But this was 2 or 3 years ago! So many people in UK, USA, Australia have this beauty. What the heck is all this secrecy about??? I DO understand the need for botanical descriptions...I am no botanist...but I am not stupid, and
if a name has been given, which I know it has...then for God's sake, let us all know!!!

Ok to name new hybrids and cultivars whatever you like...but a new species needs to have a correct name. Delays like this will only complicate matters.

Before long, nurseries throughout the world will be selling this lovely Salvia with different commercial names. Whilst I will be pleased to see this Salvia around, I am not at all happy that it will be wrongly named. No nursery is likely to profit from selling a plant named SL411!

SO...botanists...either publish a name....or stop wasting your time...and ours....

I am not usually as arrogant as this...usually just very quiet!

I had hoped that SL411 may have been named at the Salvia summit. But as I was unable to attend,I don't know.

Robin.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2008 at 5:55PM
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hybridsage

Robin;
You may make a better point with SOL911.Then they would have a reason to name it quickly so as not to offend anyone.
Art

    Bookmark   August 15, 2008 at 5:40PM
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wardda

I sympathize with your point of view which doesn't seem in any way out of line. You have been waiting for quite some time to know the truth if it is out there.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2008 at 12:49PM
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robinmi_gw

Thanks wardda,

I appreciate your comments. I apologise for seeming so angry and aggressive on the last post. !!! I can only blame that on an excess of some rather nice wine!!!

I regret sending that message, I don't want people to think that I am a stroppy bas?ard...I am not. Ask anyone who knows me!

Just very frustrated, as I explained!

I have so many Salvias flowering in my garden now....there are disappointments this year, 50% due to my incompetence, and 50% because of bugs and the vile weather. But visitors always adore SL411, and ask for the name!

One day soon, hopefully!

Robin.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2008 at 6:12PM
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hybridsage

Robin;
First being passionate about what you enjoy is never wrong
even if you have had some good wine.If you don't mind me asking who do you send your herbarium specimens off to for
proper identification?

    Bookmark   August 19, 2008 at 10:19PM
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annette68_gw

Here is a shot of the flowers on mine taken today, this is from a cutting of the main plant, loves my tropical climate and flowers all year round, it is a beauty.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2008 at 9:22PM
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robinmi_gw

Lovely picture, Annette. Mine is flowering well now.

Art, sorry I forgot to reply to your question. In the past James Compton and Christian Froissart have taken specimens to the herbariums at Kew and Paris. Nothing matched, and it is thought to be a previously unknown species.

Still awaiting the name...but I am remaining calm!!!

Robin.

    Bookmark   September 1, 2008 at 12:26PM
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wardda

You are not alone when you find yourself staring at your failures in late August - I for one have never learned to live with them. Taking into account the sheer number of plants involved I've never known why I kick myself over not getting everything planted by May 15 - probably just for the exercise.

Annette, it sounds like it might be better for me to take cuttings. Perhaps those would reach maturity sooner than seed grow plants. Mine should be in bloom in the next few days and I'll see what the wait was all about.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2008 at 12:15PM
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penny1947(z6 WNY)

I had to bring this thread back up. I started my three seeds last year (2008) in late winter. Two seeds of the three germinated but were very slow to grow for me. In fact the seedlings stayed so small all season that I never planted them out. I kept them in 4 inch pots through the summer, fall and winter until this spring when I finally decided to give them a shot in ground. I planted them out in early June. One on the east side of the house and a week or two later one on the south side of the house. The first one that was planted out on the east side of the house has several buds about to burst open. Both plants are under 2ft. tall and about a ft. across and both are planted in well amended soil and because of all the rain we are getting right now they are probably getting a bit more water than they would normally get. It is also cooler this year than normal I am just thrilled that I didn't give up on my latent seedlings regardless of what name they are eventually given. Robin, SL411 ia much easier to remember than some of the plants I have growing in my garden.

Penny

    Bookmark   July 2, 2009 at 6:56PM
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penny1947(z6 WNY)

UPDATE: What a difference one day came make. The first 4 blooms are open and ready for business this morning!

Penny

    Bookmark   July 3, 2009 at 8:02AM
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anygreen

Any word on the naming of this plant yet? I have been growing this plant outdoors since last fall and it has been blooming nonstop but it is really beginning to take off now that the weather is changing. Very nice and it seems to be a hummingbird favorite.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2011 at 12:37AM
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robinmi_gw

SL411 is still SL411. European botanists seem to have lost interest, sadly. Will advise if I hear anything.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2011 at 8:46AM
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robinmi_gw

SL411 is still SL411. European botanists seem to have lost interest, sadly. Will advise if I hear anything.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2011 at 8:47AM
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