With women now in the workforce in great numbers it seems that alimony, especially for life, is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Surely you must agree with this trend...
Only if you think it just applies to women. And misogynistic.
I disagree. When an employee is transferred to a new location, their entire family moves. That means that usually the spouse must give up seniority, vesting in retirement plans, etc and find a new job. Do this every 3 or 4 years as one does with the military, and there is a real impact on the spouse's earnings and money that can be put away for retirement. So, if one spouse scrafices a career so the other's career can advance, absolutely alimony is in order. The same would be if one spouse worked to support the other while he or she was going to school to gain skills in a high paying job such as becoming a doctor or lawyer.
Remember alimony is taxable to the recipient and is a deduction for the payer.
Not at all, it can be a lifesaver, especially for women. Their (our) income generally plummets in a divorce.
Someone close to you wants alimony, eh? If so, be as generous as possible.
"With women now in the workforce in great numbers it seems that alimony, especially for life, is rapidly becoming a thing of the past."
If anything women in the workforce has meant the extension of alimony to males.....
Alimony, or maintenance, is not always awarded... it's a lot easier to be awarded child support, something that's truly necessary... and it's not always easy to get enough of that awarded, and it's not always easy to collect it.
It's not generally awarded without some extenuating circumstance. And if it is, it's typically for a lilmited time, e.g. three or five years or based on a formula, using length of time married... but typically not "forever". It's really hard to collect it from some. Especially in this economic climate.
In Ontario the courts assess child support based on income. It's a straight up chart...you make X ...you pay Y. One can be asses ed more but not less.
As far as collection goes , if there is an issue the Province pays the child support to the custodial spouse and then attaches wages, sues, fines and even imprison the deadbeat.
Alimony is difficult to get and is almost always limited.
In too many cases, the parent that is ordered to pay child support finds a way to fudge his or her income to make it look substantially less than it truly is... and the parent with physical custody of the children too often can't afford to keep an attorney on retainer to make repeat court appearances to sort out the details and actually get the proper amount awarded, or adjusted...
This is often another area of law where only those who can afford the best in attorneys get the best treatment.
what an understatement--all of that jodik--both on fathers and mothers parts. Sister couldn't get the ex wife to pay support and my ex is getting paid by more than one employer, but they only look at one of his paychecks. UGH!
And now there is what is being called manimony. The wife is the successful business woman and the divorcing husband is receiving manimony at a greater percentage than in the past.
Exactly what happened to us, Robin... the pay stub chosen by the ex to show in court was exponentially smaller in amount than a normal one would be... she chose one that only showed a partial week's work... and she never showed up with more pay stubs to have the amount adjusted as ordered by the judge.
Unfortunately, we couldn't afford to pay the lawyer for repeat appearances... not that she ever intended to pay the support ordered. In all the years following her abandonment of the family, we got one initial check in the amount of $129 dollars. And she only wrote that check so the judge would allow her to leave the court building.
It's just a little tricky to raise 3 children on a total sum of $129 and change.
I like Canada's methodology for taking care of its citizens. It may not be perfect, but it shows a certain empathy for all peoples... and that's an important part of a working society.
Two managers at work the husband resigned to care for the child & do some at home work with about at 60% reduction in salary the wife has to travel as part of her job. Here a business relationship exists in a marriage contract.
3% of men receive alimony.
It's not romantic but everything should be in writing as in a pre nup!
"the pay stub chosen by the ex to show in court was exponentially smaller in amount than a normal one would be... she chose one that only showed a partial week's work.."
Seems the judge should be smarter than that. here you have to show your income tax returns AND a statement of earnings from the employer.
Chase--Income tax returns don't show your true income, if you're getting paid under the table. ahem heavy sigh!!!!!
This post was edited by rob333 on Tue, Jul 23, 13 at 12:22
I think you mean if you are getting paid under the table.
In that case nothing proves income......
My comments were directed towards Jodi's statement that the judge accepted single pay stub.
Doesn't that suck, that the judge accepted it? (I changed it as soon as it posted, so you must've seen it the 30 seconds it was NOT getting paid under the table) :) But she's right, it doesn't matter if the judge accpted or didn't, enforcing it is the bigger problem. We're back to that old irritating thing my lawyer says, can't get blood from a turnip!
I called my state, fed up with thinking about him doing what he's and how it can affect things down the road. It's just not right he can get paid under the table and there is no way to track it. And NOTHING I can do about it. I figured. But he's always done it. But I did find out for certain one thing, if he gets "behind", not a specified dollar amount, but for 90 days, they threaten to take away his driver's license the first time. If he still doesn't get caught up, and they have to threaten again, it's jail time. I've never been on his end, so I didn't know. What's really funny? He thinks I tell the state to go get him every time. And I never have. He's making his own grave. I hope, if we ever go back to court, the under the table thing bites him in the A! Big time. It'd serve him right. Karma. Whatever you call it. I'm not doing any of it. I wish him well, but it isn't a two-way street.
That said, try to see if you can get any money from your ex when they're in jail. Don't think that will work! It's really hard to bring in the bucks when you're in the slammer.
Joe, years ago I would have disagreed, but in seeing acquaintances as well as good friends divorce over the years, the fastest way to see the other side of your true love is to end up divorcing- no matter who files.
I have never witnessed a ' friendly' divorce, only quiet ones where one side saw where things were going to go and just let it all go rather than go down that road. Since they were childless, I agreed with her. The fight was going to be filthy because he had a bad conscience going into the divorce he filed for- better she let him have everything and she walk away with pride that she didnt allow herself to go down that road. It was a learning experience, to say the least, I had previously really liked and admired him. He had a nasty side to him.
Prenups.....a good thing, even if the couple has nothing at the time. It can cover the time when a little accumulation has taken place.
There are always some real trepidations with prenups, especially in first marriages - and even more so when they're ill conceived and badly done. Thinking of them in terms of a "business deal" almost seems coercive when young and in love. But since the expectation is (and rightly so) that your (generic) marriage is going to be in the 50% that does last, it gets signed and thrown in a drawer. If a couple is starting out on equal footing and neither is more moneyed, etc, etc., the idea of ever being shorted on "considerations" just isn't there.
A second marriage, or marrying older and established in one's own right - another story altogether. Without having one, one of the participants could be wandering into scorched earth territory.
(And the argument for trust will enter into the discussion in... one... two... three) :-)
Mylab, I am an example of an easy, friendly, "nice" divorce and I know a few others who have had the same experience.
We both wanted it and it wasn't because of anything terrible, No lies, cheating, etc. We married young and simply grew apart. We had no children and everything was done fairly. No fighting and no acrimony. We both remarried and the families are not only friendly but remain close. As I said upthread I know others who had the same experience but yes, I do know more people that experienced what you described and many have been ugly. I consider myself lucky.
So what happens when the assets are combined, culled down, and later on you split up? The two tables, both of which were wonderful, is now one, who gets the one table (or bed, or counh, or whatever!) left?
Messy no matter what. Business deal or not. Trusting and loving aside, even though, they are important.
So what happens when the assets are combined, culled down, and later on you split up? The two tables, both of which were wonderful, is now one, who gets the one table (or bed, or counh, or whatever!) left?
Messy no matter what. Business deal or not. Trusting and loving aside, even though, they are important.
It happens every day and it isn't always messy. It all depends on the individuals, how they feel about "things", and the circumstances of the breakup.. There isn't a one size fits all including that it always has to be messy.
Some "things" are more important than others and have sentimental value to one and not the other and other times, like in marriage, it takes compromise and negotiation.. Another factor would be if there is a pre-nup or not.
It certainly makes it easier if there is no acrimony and spitefulness but if there is it is negotiated by the parties and their representatives. Usually family heirlooms go back to the one it belonged to before the marriage and/or something of equal value given to the other. Some things are sold and the money divided. But there are many different scenarios depending on the parties and it isn't always ugly or one size fits all for everyone.
Lawyers can make it harder and add fuel to the fire since it is their job to get their client the most and part of the their job is to show your ex in their worst light but that is usually applied in a contested divorce or where there were problems in the marriage that led to acrimony.. I have a friend who is presently going through a divorce of his wife of 30 years and it isn't nasty or dirty and everything is being divided relatively fairly and evenly because they are mature and are compromising, They are not using lawyers they are using mediators. They don;t want it messy, they just don't want to be married anymore because the marriage is no longer working and neither is happy but they don't dislike each other.
epi, I've actually had an amicable divorce. It's not even one size fits all for the same person. My parents, divorced about 40 years ago, are still really good friends.
I don't find divorce messy, but it sure as heck can be. Lawyers didn't make it hard or easy. The ex is what made the difference. Had I not gotten a lawyer with the difficult one, I can tell you right now, I'd be a thousand times worse off. Still the ex who made the difference.
It takes both parties to want it to be amicable. I can want it and do it, but if he doesn't... well, you get the picture.
Unfortunately, Chase, most of the elderly male judges seem to have a soft spot for crocodile tears and fake female sorrow, and they tend to pity women who can bring up tears and fake fears in a court situation.
My husband is only the second man to gain physical custody of his children in our county... a sad testament to the outdated, traditional way in which some men view women... and a lot of females are not above using their wily ways to gain what they want, playing upon the sympathies of judges, law enforcement, and other officials.
In our case, the judge only asked for proof of her earnings, and she produced only the one chosen paycheck stub, claiming tearfully that she hardly made enough to support herself... complete bull, as she pulls down at least $50 grand annually driving a semi. I've personally seen her tax returns and her usual paychecks. I've worked in the industry, myself, so I know she flat out lied.
Without wanting to sound spiteful, because I actually pity the woman, she's always been very selfish and self involved, placing herself before her children or anyone else.
Were it me, I'd be suffering through whatever it took to support my children, though I'd never even think of leaving them in the first place... and I can't fathom how anyone could simply up and walk away after giving birth to three wonderful kids.
But anyway... as Robin says, there's only so much one can do from a legal standpoint...
My own divorce was much more amicable... in a matter of speaking. To avoid any massive conflict, I simply walked away from all the material stuff. I couldn't afford to make any attached payments, so it was easier... plus, I didn't want to fight over any of it. It's just stuff. And there were no children involved, so...
" most of the elderly male judges seem to have a soft spot for crocodile tears and fake female sorrow, and they tend to pity women who can bring up tears and fake fears in a court situation. "
Well if that is the case most women would do quite well in the courts because it is far more often that the woman is the one seeking support and custody.
Sorry I'm not buying that argument.....
which is not to say I don't agree that your husband's ex is a piece of work for avoiding her parental responsibility.
Absolutely Rob. It takes two to tango. But I disagree with your statement .Messy no matter what. No divorce is pleasant but not necessarily messy.
If there are no children, one can decide that the shared money and things they bought and paid for together arent so important as is just getting out of the relationship as quickly as possible. If there are children involved, a child needs a home furnished with the basics, with kitchens supplied with the basics and some sort of transportation - groceries for the child and jobs for the roof over its head and medical attention for the burning up with fever, sick children are better served by a car if there is only one to divide up.
The idea of starting all over again on one's own is far easier a prospect than starting from scratch with one or more children. Taking that second/ third job to get started again may take additional years to accomplish after taking child care out of the profits. Or not taking those extra jobs because after such an upheaval, its sometimes better for everyone to sleep on the floors together and catch a bus for as many years as it takes because it would be to comfort the children and create a sense of emotional security - than for the parent to work those jobs in order to turn a house into a home the children wont be embarrassed of. I saw incredibly hard choices which had to be made, one choice barely better than the other available to them. When just a year before they were happy with what they thought a loving, caring partner as they built a nice life together for themselves and their children.
Tough choices have to be made when the non custodial parent is on a possession/money grab before disappearing from the very lives he/she created.
If only more people remembered that they had once loved the person they now resent/ dislike or even hate, and that the true victims are their own children, maybe they would slow the grab as they walked out the door.
From what I have seen, I have come to believe that when the chips are down, an alarmingly large number of parents actually dont love their children, not in any meaningful way. They love the idea of them but not the hungry mouths nor the illness needing a doctor or medication or the necessary clothing, but sometimes they do like to play Santa Clause - if they are in town and they dont have a new family of hungry, sick children taking up most of their attention, affection and resources. Some people best love their children when not caring for them or paying child support - will speak lovingly and proudly of them even as they give the incorrect ages of them and forget what grades they are in.
I consider myself beyond fortunate that though there have been very difficult times in my life, at least I was at least spared all of this, I have seen some of this happen with friends - its a horror just to witness.
No divorce is pleasant but not necessarily messy.
I haven't been divorced but having said that I don't understand how a divorce cannot, at some level be messy. I understand it doesn't have to be financially messy and perhaps the actual process of filling out and filing the papers doesn't have to be messy but at some point is it not emotionally messy? At the point of the recognition that a marriage, a life-partnership (supposedly) entered into with the intention of a forever relationship, is over does that not create emotional chaos?
I know it would for me regardless of the reason for the break-up.
I agree with you blfenton. It can be ok, but there is still a mess to clean up. Assets and debts to divide. Someone has to go to court. Friends and family sometimes "choose", even you remain friends! And yes, emotional chaos. But it's just our opinions.
epi, I would never ever never ever be with Ed again. Never. Even though I care about him on a friend level. But even then, I still mourn the could've beens, wonder what it might be like (that usually ends it really quickly!), and there is some minutae (0.000000000001%) that admits the vision of "together" is there, however fleeting (and it is really fleeting!) it is. Really small. It's too hard to put it all away forever. Doesn't that alone bother you? I mean, how can you feel such deep emotions of love only to have the chasm of disappointment (if you didn't, were you ever truly in love? not you, you, the general you.), to still caring? I find it messy.
At the point of the recognition that a marriage, a life-partnership (supposedly) entered into with the intention of a forever relationship, is over does that not create emotional chaos?
The emotional chaos came long before that when we were both struggling to figure out why neither of us were happy and nothing we did was helping. By the time of the divorce we had worked on and out so many things that it was the opposite of emotional chaos. It was many things at different times including sad, disappointing, scary, strange,.. but never messy. The fact that we worked very hard on trying to make it work, together, until we realized that it wasn't going to and made the decision together, always with each others best interests in mind.also factored into it. I guess it depends on the people, the circumstances and how it is handled.
Marriages with acrimony, cheating, mistrust, etc.that culminate in divorce can be messy but for us it was none of that. By the time of the actual divorce we both knew it was the right decision and we also ended it as friends, closer than we were for the period of time when we were confused as to what to do and what we wanted.
I know plenty where it was very messy...starting during the marriages and it only got worse from there. Many times when people stay in a marriage but are not happy for a long time and stay just because they think they should don't end well and the divorces are messy.
I still mourn the could've beens, wonder what it might be like (that usually ends it really quickly!), and there is some minutae (0.000000000001%) that admits the vision of "together" is there, however fleeting (and it is really fleeting!) it is. Really small. It's too hard to put it all away forever. Doesn't that alone bother you?
I don;t choose to mentally torture myself so I never partook in mourning the could have's, would have's etc. because there is no reason to. I don't mourn something that didn't work. We tried our hardest and a marriage wasn't meant to be, but he was meant to be in my life and he is.
I don't know why dividing assets has to be messy as I have tried to explain. It is a matter of making decisions, just like we do every day in life. The number of things we had trouble deciding on who should get were insignificant and we got to split the pets so we were just fine.
In our case none of our friends of family had to choose. .We didn't have to deal with that since there weren't sides drawn up. We are all still good friends and both sets of families even have some holidays together and we have vacationed together also. Our children are friends, I am friends with his wife and he is friends with my DH and even our siblings and families are all still friendly. We had two lawyers who worked with us and didn't pit us against each other so it was relatively easy. They simply took care of the legalities.
I understand that it isn't always this way and as I said I am lucky.
It sounds like one only error you two made was in getting married rather than living together for a good long while, or keeping it on a friendship level. People often attach their dreams to the person they marry, so divorce is the long, drawn out death of a dream. It strikes me that you two really liked each other and when the marriage was overyou two still did as it ended for all the right reasons in just the right way Epi - I certainly congratulate you on that.
Perhaps a nice ending is more common than I realize, as I have only seen mostly very turbulent endings. Maybe I didnt see the conclusion to the stories of them tho, as most were military wives who relocated close to family once the divorce was final.
A very sensitive, emotional family member married what turned out to be an alcoholic and omg, drama ensued through the growing years of two children, ending almost two decades later in an acrimonious divorce.
Who could have ever dreamed that within less than a decade, they would get along better then then than a single day in the marriage.
She met and married my wonderful (and favorite) "ragin' cajun" BIL and by then her first husband had been in AA for years and happily married to his wife whom he met there and was happy. His childhood background was the most tragic by far I have ever known anyone close to me to come from. Tragic- I would have ended up an addict, or dead had I been in his shoes.
"I dont know why dividing assets has to be messy...."
Neither do I!
It has always seemed to me that dividing the assets should be the least painful part of the whole divorce.
I suspect the problem isnt actually to do with the assets themselves as much as they are a means of revenge or vengefulness over the blame given because of the death of the dream- assets are a way to hurt or get to someone.
"I suspect the problem isnt actually to do with the assets themselves as much as they are a means of revenge or vengefulness over the blame given because of the death of the dream- assets are a way to hurt or get to someone."
Uh no. Let's try a second time. You both have nice dining room tables. You only have room for one when you marry. You sell, trash, donate, give away one. Who gets the one which is left? Or you get rid of both and upgrade, who ends up with no table and stuck buying a new one? None of this is me. He got it all. I wanted nothing to do with any of the wordly goods. I ended up having family members give me an antique table that was my great grandparents, or I bought new, etc.
Those are real scenarios. It takes no animosity to end up there.
What if all the belongings went with them when they left and you had to start over? And saying, I get the bed and you get the antique side tables, well, that's not really a good split either. They don't function the same way.
Some of us walk away and some fight over the last nail. I sure don't fault them for trying hard to keep something. If you don't know why, you haven't been there? It's my only guess.
I didn't really need the antiques or china or silverware. And I ended up with my grandmother's shortly thereafter. Stuff comes, stuff goes.
Lawyers don't pit anyone. Some divorces are so amicable, both parties can use the same lawyer. I am not sure why anyone thinks that. Honestly, they'd just assume get it done and move on to the next one.
During my divorce (or actually it was years later) my lawyer told me that having a male judge actually gave the woman a better shot in court. He said often (not always) female judges feel that the woman should just go earn more money. She's a judge and often divorced, so if she's done it, anyone else can do it too.
I never actually experienced this. I once had a female judge in the many, many times I was in court. Since I won every single time I was in court, I didn't experience any difference between the 1 female and the many, many male judges I was before. Note there was no alimony involved, only child support.
When I am asked for advice by friends because they know what I went through, I always tell them to get a good lawyer. A good lawyer does not mean you are being mean or trying to stick it to the other party. It only means that you will get what you should.
When I originally got divorced, we did it with a friend of the ex that was a lawyer, though not a divorce lawyer. Well, it turns out that there were things in our agreement that were not very clear. And things that should never have been there. Well, once I was planning on getting remarried, the ex did everything he could to stop paying support. Our divorce agreement did not protect me. Got a good lawyer (yes, very expensive) and went back to court and had everything sorted out with child support taken out of his salary by the state and paid to me. Therefore he couldn't not pay me because he was mad about something (which he did previously). While a good laywer works for you, they are also there to tell you when you are being unreasonable. There were a couple of occassions I asked my lawyer about something and he told me that wasn't a reasonable request and he didn't recommend I asked for it in court. So, not only did he get me what I was owed, he kept me from asking for things that were not right. He was worth every dime I paid him.
For years, he continually took me back to court to try and reduce/eliminate his support. He was never ever successful. He lost every single time.
The last time we were in court, my favorite words issued by the judge at the end. After telling the MR that he needed to stop this harrassment and to stop filing the same thing over and over again, he said: "now someone has to pay for us being here today and it's not going to be her" and pointed at me. He made him pay every $ of my lawyer's costs. And my lawyer was not cheap. He actually had to pay some of my lawyer costs several times, but never 100% before that. Having to write that check to me must have been very difficult for him. He never filed another motion again.
Epi, my divorce was similar to yours. The difference was that I had 3 children. We agreed on child support, her car still had payments to be made, and she rented an apartment. I paid half of the payments and a generous child support. Whenever she had necessary things to do, I was the sitter and I had alternate weekends with the kids which were sometimes extended for camping trips in the mountains or beach trips. I fell behind on child support 1 month in 15 years.
We each took on partners over the years and shucked them readily when they didn't work out. We've grown closer over the 35 years. Now, all 3 kids have their college degrees (which I pat myself on the back for) and are well on their ways to comfortable lifestyles.
We're splitting this week, feeding oldest daughters cats while she's at the beach. I fed her( my ex) animals while she was meeting our latest granddaughter in California and she'll do the same for me in two weeks. I do her lawn work and she cleans my house. We each have keys to the others domicile. She just left and I'm very grateful that I met up with such a smart woman at a young age.
There was never alimony but there was always an agreement that our kids wouldn't suffer because of our split.
My ex was supposed to give me child support after we split. He went back to France and never sent me a dime. You know what? I didn't care - I didn't want his money. I figured I could support my kid on my own and, in fact, I preferred it that way. And I did.
JG - I had many friends ask me why I was allowing my ex to put me through what he did. I could easily afford to support my daughter on my own. To me, it was the principal -- he wanted to be part of his daughter's life (as he should be), then he cannot expect all the good without the rest. He didn't want to pay me anything. He didn't want a fixed schedule because he wanted to come get her when it was convenient for him. If she and I were hanging out, he'd want to come get her if he felt like it and would say 'you're not doing anything, you're just hanging out'. And if I asked for him to take her because I had something to do, the answer was almost always 'no, i'm busy'. So, we needed a fixed support amount that he couldn't change because he felt like it, and a fixed visitation schedule so he couldn't intrude on our time together. Now, if he wanted to leave and not cause the havoc in her life that he did, I would have taken that deal in a minute.
Mylab, we dated exclusively for 3 years, lived together for 2 before marrying and staying married for 6, almost 7. We even lived abroad together which is an experience that brings you closer together. We were in love with each other when we married and did it all the right way, with the right motivations. So I don't know what we could have done differently. It simply didn't work. In retrospect we both think we were simply too young and our interests grew apart but we never stopped liking each other, it seems similar to Steve.
Among my friends who married young they are either still married and miserable, just existing and are more like roommates than partners or they are divorced although I have 2 sets of friends who are still happy and have wonderful relationships that thrived through the years so it is possible. My parents are a good example as well but it was a different time and different circumstances but I had good role models when it came to relationships.
Steve, I knew I wasnÃ¢ÂÂt the only one who had a similar experience. It seems we both actually like our exÃ¢ÂÂs and still respect them even if the marriages didnÃ¢ÂÂt work out.
We didnÃ¢ÂÂt have children partly because when things started to go south we thought we needed to put it off for a while and I am glad we made that decision although I think that it would have been ok in the end, and your story confirms that.
Our pets were our kids and as I said before we shared custody and now he and his family are strong supporters of my stepsonÃ¢ÂÂs animal rescue. His kids help out often. Our children are close as well. My son is close to my ex and his wife and so are my stepchildren who I was lucky enough to have come with the package with my current DH. When they were young my ex watched them when we both had to travel for business and visa versa. We are just one large, happy, crazy, functional / dysfunctional family.
Jill your story sounds similar to mine. We can be nice and reasonabe, but there is no way to make them do what is good and right. I'm proud of us for taking the high road.
But, Rob, I was able to make him do at least one thing that was right -- paying his support. And I did it while taking the high road.
Of course, you are right, though. There were a lot of things I could not make him do. Like not tell his young daughter that I was just trying to steal his money by getting the court to make him pay support. But, taking the high road was the right thing for me to do. I bit my tongue all those years while I worried that she would grow up to believe him and hate me. Well, she is now grown up and she figured him out many years ago without me having to tell her. And, we are extremely close and she doesn't hate me! She just got married last month. After the wedding, her new mother-in-law sent me a thank you note. She said that while it's tradition for the bride to dance with her dad at the wedding (and she did), everyone knows who the true inspiration in her life was. She thanked me for the wedding and for the beautiful, inside and out, woman that married her son. She brought me to tears. Her words were very special to me because it reenforced what I already knew -- that despite everything, my daughter turned out to be a wonderful warm and caring person, and that I had a lot to do with that.
Bottom line -- get a good lawyer, and take the high road!
Ditto on your bottom line. It's exactly what I did. Everything that has befallen him, he's done. It does catch up to them. But it's caught up to us too--we are raising/raised some very smart and loving children. (((Jill))) I would say we are lucky, but we created our own luck. You too Silver!
She thanked me for the wedding and for the beautiful, inside and out, woman that married her son. She brought me to tears. Her words were very special to me because it reenforced what I already knew -- that despite everything, my daughter turned out to be a wonderful warm and caring person, and that I had a lot to do with that.
If your daughter's MIL took the time and went to the trouble to let you know that, you can rest knowing you got it right in rearing your daughter.
I wish for her a long and happy marriage.
This post was edited by demifloyd on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 20:13
Jill, that was lovely of her. Even though she simply confirmed what you already knew, it is always nice to hear it, especially after what you endured to get to where you are today.
Kudos to you. I always admire people who handle difficult situations well as you did. It isn't easy raising children, especially under difficult circumstances. No surprise that you and your daughter are close. Kids know. The apple doesn't fall from the tree.
Thank you demi and epi. I am always amazed at how well she turned out :-)
I replied to her MIL that one of my biggest fears for my daughter -- that she would make the same mistake I made and pick someone like her dad -- was completely erased when I met her son. He's wonderful and reminds me of my DH who has been in DD's life since she was 8. I got it right the second time and I'm so happy she seems to have gotten it right the first time.
Wow, it seems like your daughter and her son are going to have one very wonderful extended family unit! Think of how wonderful that will be for your future grandchildren - surrounded by the living example of what the term ' family' can mean.
You all are so very blessed.
In our area, Chase, and this is also completely dependent upon the individual judge sitting on the bench at the time, women DO come out on top. As I said, this is dependent upon the judge, and the county seems to have a few rather elderly male judges that fall for tears and blubbering, no matter how contrived it is.
You wouldn't believe the stories manufactured, where the sympathy falls... it borders on the ridiculous, but that judge has the final say in the smaller, local courts, and there's not much one can do without a rather expensive attorney.
In the end, though... the children witness what happens, and they know what's truth and what's fiction... and by the time they're young adults, they've formed their own opinions. They know who was there when they needed someone or something, they know who fought for them, who provided for them, who cared about their welfare... kids are smart.
It's just a shame that they have to take the damage inflicted... when it doesn't have to be that way.