I am starting to hoard now to avoid the pain at the checkout, though my freezer can only hold so much. Surely you will too after hearing the ominous reports reaching you...
I mentioned I was buying corn flakes and flour on another thread.
Right now my freezer chest in the garage storage room is almost empty so it's easy to stock up on enough of these items for probably two years.
That's optimistic, because like my dad, these days I seldom buy green bananas. Which if I do, they seem to ripen in 24 hours. Other people have noticed this, too when they buy bananas--they don't "last" as long as they used to. What's up with that? A conspiracy to get us to buy bananas more often? That's another thread.
I understand that pork and beef will triple in the coming month or so, due to the drought.
One of the advantages of eating low on the food chain is that you don't need to buy, stock, and run a freezer to store rice, lentils, and so on. Changing your diet is the only sensible response to rising cost of animal protein. Isn't most of the corn and soy that phony Monsanto stuff you shouldn't eat, and is best kept out of the food chain anyway?
I've recently started eating corn flakes.
It's a resistant starch.
I've lost five pounds since I started eating corn flakes and corn tortillas, as well as oatmeal, brown rice, lentils and whole wheat pasta.
Not giving it up!
They can keep the meat.
But our economy is going to be hit even harder with this development, I fear.
We always have several months worth of staples on hand - much more in dry/canned goods.
Our freezers are so full that I barely have enough room for ice and ice packs that I use in boat, camper and marine coolers.
I have so much venison that I've given much of it to friends.
We get more free vegetables than we can eat from family, friends, customers, employees and tenants.
Food prices have always been reasonable locally due to brutal competition among grocery resellers. Plenty of sales, coupons, discount promotions and loss leaders to lure customers into the stores.
If something is too expensive at the dozen or so stores and suppliers we shop, we'll opt out, look for a lower priced alternative, or wait until prices drop.
Food is a very small percentage of our income. We spend less on food than our poorest relatives spend on food.
We saved/invested a small fortune when we cut way back on meals away from home.
Althea my thoughts exactly, there is no meat in my freezer and have no intention of "hoarding". I keep dry staples (rice, beans, pastas etc) in the house but anything perishable, IMO, is a bad idea. One major power failure and you would lose it all, unless of course you have enough gas hoarded to run a generator.
I agree Ohiomom. I'm guessing none of the panic hoarders are installing solar panels on their house to run the freezer.
And this is why those basic survival skill sets are handy to know...
Here in the North Country where power outages are quite common, we've never had a power outage long enough that required hoarding gas, diesel or propane to run generators that provide power to freezers, well pumps, sump pumps, pressure tanks, boilers, furnaces, water heaters, pellet stoves, lighting etc.
Food will keep for quite a while in a full well insulated freezer cooler set at a proper temperature.
One of the nice things about living outside the cities is that many residents have generators (often more than one) bulk storage of heating oil, kerosene, diesel, propane, gas etc, plus these things are readily available in quantity by driving to the nearest convenience store/fuel station, marina, or calling your friendly fuel delivery dealer.
When we had our longest power outage ever (close to two weeks), we transported our frozen food to other locations. Although we have diesel, propane and portable generators at the location of the power outage, we only used them to run other necessities.
The small fortune we've saved/invested freezing food will buy many commercial generators and a whole lot of fuel.
BTW, we service many commercial freezers and coolers that have been non functional for ?hours/days. Many don't throw out the contents due to the cost.
Here is a link that might be useful: If Your Freezer Stops
My freezer costs about $26 extra to run a year. It is stocked. I freeze veggies and meat. I will always eat a balanced diet. I can eat off of what I have stored in the pantry and freezer for a year.
But I am not a big eater. Dinner for me can be one chicken wing with rice and spinach.
Exercise and balanced diet is the best diet. I have said this before we eat too much and too much of the wrong foods.
Imagine what it will be like where they really can't afford our corn. Who wins fuel or famine?
Oh but of course you already knew who wins personal choices who told those people to have all those babies.
Anyone remember the food riots of 2008 anyone remember reading anything...? That was different!
"Who wins fuel or famine?"
I think the winner is Wall Street.
This is what I remember about the food bubble of '08:
"JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, while Goldman Sachs agreed Thursday to pay $550 million to resolve a civil fraud lawsuit filed by the SEC, Goldman has not been held accountable for many of its other questionable investment practices. A new article in Harper�s Magazine examines the role Goldman played in the food crisis of 2008, when the ranks of the world�s hungry increased by 250 million. The article is titled "The Food Bubble: How Wall Street Starved Millions and Got Away With It."
AMY GOODMAN: The author of the article, Frederick Kaufman, joins us now. He�s a contributing editor at Harper�s Magazine.
Well, explain. We�re talking about Goldman Sachs today, this � they call it a landmark settlement, but they made more after-hours in trading last night than they will have to pay. So let�s look at Goldman Sachs and its record overall.
FREDERICK KAUFMAN: Yeah, this is really � it�s really outrageous. And on a certain level, this reform bill is really a sham, because it does not cover, in any way, shape or form, what Goldman Sachs � and really, let�s be honest here, it wasn�t just Goldman; it was Goldman, and it was Bear, and it was AIG, and it was Lehman, it was Deutsche, it was all across the board, JPMorgan Chase � what these banks were able to do in commodity markets, really which reached its peak from 2005 to 2008, in what is now known as the food bubble. And as Juan points out, this is unconscionable what happened, in the sense that their speculation and their restructuring of these commodity markets pushed 250 million new people into food insecurity and starving, and brought the world total up to over a billion people. This is the most abysmal total in the history of the world.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Now, what were these commodities markets like before the Wall Street firms got involved? And you have a haunting picture, especially of the Minneapolis Exchange, what it was before, what it was like. Could you talk about how things operated and then what Goldman Sachs did precisely?"
"Let me tell you, hard red wheat generally trades between $3 and $6 per sixty-pound bushel. It went up to $12, then $15, then $18. Then it broke $20. And on February 25th, 2008, hard red spring futures settled at $25 per bushel. This is completely beyond the pale, particularly at a �-
JUAN GONZALEZ: Almost ten times its historic price.
FREDERICK KAUFMAN: Yeah. It was just completely out of control. And, of course, the irony here is that in 2008, it was the greatest wheat-producing year in world history. The world produced more wheat in 2008 than ever before.
Forgot the link-
Here is a link that might be useful: democracy now!
It boils down to the basic idea that those playing around with numbers, who've never grown a crop in their lives, are the winners... and the people are the losers. Profit over people through abject greed and moral bankruptcy. Profit at any cost... people are expendable.
Wouldn't it be something... if after all this... money just couldn't buy life's little necessities... like food.
Remember? Its the 'free market' that solves all the world's problems and feeds the 800,000,000 currently unable to afford/find enough food.
Ask an oldster - money didn't matter during the WWII rationing. If you didn't have the valid coupons or didn't have an active and illegal black market going, you were SOL. For the first time, rich and poor had the same buying power. Could we be headed in that direction?
I just happened to find some old ration books in a desk drawer.
Here is a link that might be useful: Interesting link
You really don't need as much wheat to go into things as you used to. I was reading a label up at the Hospital a few weeks back. Cellulose & Cellulose gum......wood chips & wheat in your muffin!
Maybe your 200 lb. sack of wheat will have termites. A protein bonus!
One minute it's oil, then it's food, what's next? Lumber? Cement? IPads?
I saw on a show about survival if we have an emergency.
The last item was a gun. The audience asked what was the gun for and he said to hunt for food.
Grow a veggie garden and 4-legged dinners will show up on their own, or veggies are good enough. Drinking Water is more of a must than food, when on wells like us one needs a good generator. We're getting into pressure canning to reduce relying on freezing. This is just our normal living, nothing special. Would be hard to lose electricity long term, but if the Amish can do it...
Grow a veggie garden and 4-legged dinners will show up on their own
You do not hae to plant veggies. This comes up to my patio door.
Or come struting through the yard.
I have a chest freezer but my faith is in storage crops: dry beans, maize, potatoes in the row or in the tater-hole, carrots and parsnips in the ground. Kale stands edible much of the year.
Ditto MarkJames. We grow or hunt a lot of our food. Love the generator when we need to use it.
We sure wouldn't want to be city dwellers. especially these days.
Wish we could grow dry beans up here, Brown. Maybe the fact that we don't need air conditioning is a trade off, though. Can't do this, can do that.
Food is cheap here!
Especially at farm markets.
Fresh Corn. $.15 ear. The same amount of processed corn in a can is $1.09.
Fresh Beans. $.39 lb. Store bought, imported from elsewhere, $.99 lb.
Cukes. $.30 each. Store bought. $.69 ea.
Onions are dirt cheap! A 5 lb bag of Georgia Vidalia, a buck eighty nine!!!
Ohio Magazine says that over 25,000 tons of cabbage will be grown by local farmers within a 30 mile radius.
Our favorite farm market recipe is:
Rice, mixed with onions, beans, corn and smothered with cold diced tomatoes, washed down with Ohio's Pinot Gris. There's no reason to go hungry! Or thirsty.
Wild turkey is good eatin'! Of course, there's a specific season on the taking.
Joe, if it's not wood pulp, it's beet pulp or some other sort of fibrous filler. You used to see it mainly in pets feeds, but it's become common in human food items, as well. It makes me nauseous to think of what the average human and pet consumes... all the chemicals, processes, enhancers, preservatives, etc... much of it packed in a petroleum based carcinogenic covering that leaches into everything... and we wonder why we, as a species, experience all these illnesses and cancers... but dammit, profit must come before people. You know how it is...
Basement grown mushrooms contain radon!
We should have plenty of venison this year. The other night while on the way home from Tupper Lake I saw more deer than ever on Route 30.
Due to mild winters survival rates are very high.
We're catching more fish than ever as many lakes - Lake George for example weren't safe enough to ice fish.
Fresh snap beans for 39 cents a pound? I'd go broke at those prices as listed. And that is with me doing most of the work. Hire help around here and lose money big time, not just all the time.
Tupper Lake--beautiful and wonderful memories.
It is cheaper for me to shop the Farmer's Market than to grow my own with the cost of the water bill these days. The lack of rain would raise the cost of growing my own with the cost of water. My water bill for last quarter was 450.00 it usually runs 100.00.
Wow! Out here that is closer to monthly water billings for homes not planted to xeriscapes.
I get free land and water in exchange for keeping the market farm open to students and visitors and making the area attractive and safe. Still, labor costs out here are high and my labor needs are part-time and therefore more expensive. When I need the help, I need it now, not at the convenience of the worker(s).
I have 20 acre feet of irrigation water a season, which is 6,517,028.57 gallons of water, and that costs $450 a year.
/eat your hearts out
We fished Lake George (Roger's Rock in Hague), Raquette Lake and Tupper Lake all in one very long day. They're all drop-dead gorgeous areas, especially the sunrise and sunsets.
The least expensive that I've seen is 3.99/lb organic at my local co-op. Prices at the farmers' markets are as high as 5.99/lb for smaller, tender green beans. But almost everything is more expensive on L.A.'s Westside.
Depends on where you live in the U.S.
Posted by markjames (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 25, 12 at 10:09
Wow, that was a busy day, fishing three lakes!
I would ask if you did any good, but my experience is that any day fishing, regardless of the catch, is doing "good!"
Markjames, do you happen to know of a spot on the south side of Highway 3 where there are bathrooms and picnic table spots off in the woods? There is a small parking lot there. I'm assuming it was a state park area that the highway ran through, but it was just a small area.
I've looked for it on a map for several years and can't find it. It is very special to me, we stopped there the day before my husband died. If you happen to know, I'd appreciate it.
Sorry for the diversion folks.
I think we should all go back to bartering with each other, under the table, as many did during the Great Depression, and even during WW II.
Like vgkg, I am more concerned about shortages of water affecting the wells, due to extreme drought almost everywhere.
Get acquainted with cheap dinners made of rice, beans, onions, tuna. Learn to can veggies.
I am lucky in that I don't require that much food: often all I will have for dinner is a large salad with lettuce, scallions, a hard-boiled egg, fresh tomatoes, and a wedge of cheese.
I ran across this article the other day about water use in the USofA -
WE'RE now in the midst of the nation's most widespread drought in 60 years, stretching across 29 states and threatening farmers, their crops and livestock. But there is another risk as water becomes more scarce. Power plants may be forced to shut down, and oil and gas production may be threatened.
Our energy system depends on water. About half of the nation's water withdrawals every day are just for cooling power plants. In addition, the oil and gas industries use tens of millions of gallons a day, injecting water into aging oil fields to improve production, and to free natural gas in shale formations through hydraulic fracturing. Those numbers are not large from a national perspective, but they can be significant locally.
All told, we withdraw more water for the energy sector than for agriculture. Unfortunately, this relationship means that water problems become energy problems that are serious enough to warrant high-level attention.
During the 2008 drought in the Southeast, power plants were within days or weeks of shutting down because of limited water supplies. In Texas today, some cities are forbidding the use of municipal water for hydraulic fracturing. The multiyear drought in the West has lowered the snowpack and water levels behind dams, reducing their power output. The United States Energy Information Administration recently issued an alert that the drought was likely to exacerbate challenges to California's electric power market this summer, with higher risks of reliability problems and scarcity-driven price increases.
And in the Midwest, power plants are competing for water that farmers want for their devastated corn crops.
Unfortunately, trends suggest that this water vulnerability will become more important with time.
Population growth will mean over 100 million more people in the United States over the next four decades who will need energy and water to survive and prosper. Economic growth compounds that trend, as per-capita energy and water consumption tend to increase with affluence. Climate-change models also suggest that droughts and heat waves may be more frequent and severe.
Thankfully, there are some solutions.
The government can collect, maintain and make available accurate, updated and comprehensive water data, possibly through the United States Geological Survey and the E.I.A. The E.I.A. maintains an extensive database of accurate, up-to-date and comprehensive information on energy production, consumption, trade and price. Unfortunately, there is no equivalent set of data for water. Consequently, industry, investors, analysts, policy makers and planners lack the information they need to make informed decisions about power plant siting or cooling technologies.
The government should also invest in water-related research and development (spending has been pitifully low for decades) to seek better air-cooling systems for power plants, waterless techniques for hydraulic fracturing, and biofuels that do not require freshwater irrigation.
We should encourage the use of reclaimed water for irrigation, industry and the cooling of equipment at industrial operations like smelters and petrochemical complexes. These steps typically spare a significant amount of energy and cost. The use of dry and hybrid wet-dry cooling towers that require less water should be encouraged at power plants, since not all of them need wet cooling all the time. As power plants upgrade their cooling methods to ones that are less water-intensive, these operations can save significant volumes of water.
Most important, conservation should be encouraged, since water conservation results in energy conservation, and vice versa.
New carbon emissions standards can also help save water. A plan proposed by the Obama administration (requiring new power plants to emit no more than 1,000 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt hour generated) would encourage utilities to choose less carbon- and water-intensive fuels. Conventional coal plants, which are very thirsty, exceed the standards proposed by the president. But relatively clean, and water-lean, power plants that use wind, solar panels and natural gas combined cycle, would meet them. Thus, by enforcing CO2 limits, a lot of water use can be avoided.
Because rivers and aquifers can span many states (or countries), because there is no alternative to water, and because water represents a critical vulnerability for our energy system, governments at all levels have a stake in working with industry to find solutions. The downsides of doing nothing - more blackouts - are too serious to ignore.
Of course, this is the NY Times, liberul rag that always thinks that Gubmint is the answer. These sorts of problems will all go away if water is privatized and sold on free markets to the highest bidder.
Here is a link that might be useful: link
I think the EPA has gotten out of control for a very simple reason: It is a tool in the hands of the president to crush the private-enterprise system...
In other words, Ron, Romney thinks the EPA stands in his way of making more profit, and he doesn't have a shred of care for what actions that bring those profits might do to the environment we ALL must share. Isn't that special...
Evidence of drought is all around our area, with the combination of heat and lack of rain putting great stress on every living thing... the creeks are drying up, the fields of corn and other crops look highly stressed, and even deep rooted trees are dropping leaves and ridding themselves of any non-essential parts in the fight to survive. Very few farmers in this area irrigate, or have the equipment to do so... it's normally not necessary.
......and the Farm Relief Act is being stalled in the House because the "children" can't figure out a way to make it look like they won ......as opposed to America won.
You guys hired them, you guys need to fire them!
I think the food price forecast is supposed to come out today. It's out - see link below.
Mnnesota's corn crops have just been nicked by drought - mainly in the southwest corner. 77% of the state's corn crop remains in good or excellent condition, compared with 40 percent nationally.
We had a good rain over night - first "significant" fall since our disasterous June 20 flood. My grass looks to be going dormant, but the trees and shrubs really perked up.
Here is a link that might be useful: Just wait until 2013
Beef prices in particular are going to go up - not so much for the cost of feed, but the drought destroyed an awful lot of pasture. I was reading earlier that the size of the national herd was off 2% last year from the Texas drought, and another 2% so far this year, but the latest numbers aren't in yet.
Another phenomenon with high beef prices are the old ranchers cash in and retire. One of my neighbors did that last year, another is likely to do so at the end of the forest lease season this year.
Was reading that, too. Most of the corn crop here is feed corn - if the prices go too high farmers can't afford to feed their livestock and the sell off begins.
We planted extra crops this year, and fortunately things look good. No real drought here, and we have plenty of water available.
I wonder if meat prices will dip temporarily if farmers sell more livestock because of feed problems.
Entire article from Economy Watch on NBC
MINNEAPOLIS -- The record drought gripping half the country will help push food prices up by 3 percent to 4 percent next year, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said Wednesday.
Milk, eggs, beef, poultry and pork prices will all be affected by the drought, which has pushed up prices for feed. Beef prices are expected to see the biggest jump at 4 percent to 5 percent. Dairy product prices are forecast to climb 3.5 percent to 4.5 percent; poultry and egg prices are projected to rise 3 percent to 4 percent; and pork prices are expected to rise 2.5 percent to 3.5 percent in 2013, the agency said.
"In 2013 as a result of this drought we are looking at above-normal food price inflation. ... Consumers are certainly going to feel it," USDA economist Richard Volpe said.
Normal grocery price inflation is about 2.8 percent, he added, so even at the low end of the projected range people will see their grocery expenses rise more than usual next year. The USDA kept its projected food price increase for 2012 steady at 2.5 percent to 3.5 percent.
The figures are the agency's first food price projections to factor in the drought, though farmers and others have been warning that prices will rise. The drought has sent corn, soybean and other commodity prices soaring in recent weeks as fields dry out and crops wither across much of the country's midsection.
Volpe said the drought is not expected to affect prices for fruits and vegetables. Most of those crops are irrigated. The USDA is projecting an overall 2 percent to 3 percent increase for all fruits and vegetables next year, the same as it expects this year.
USDA economists were aware of the drought a month ago when they did their last projections but didn't know how bad it would get, Volpe said.
"This drought was a surprise for everybody," Volpe said. "The USDA was forecasting a record year for the corn crop until this drought materialized. Now we're not going to get that."
Poultry prices will be the first to rise because of the drought because chickens and turkeys need only a few months to grow to market size, he said. Beef and pork take longer, and the agency actually revised its beef price projection for 2012 downward because producers are sending more cattle to the market at the moment as they reduce their herds in response to the drought, he said.
Meat and poultry prices are the most affected because feed prices represent the biggest part of their cost of production. Processed food prices are less affected by changes in commodity prices because ingredients typically make up just a fraction of their production costs.
Could be a dip if there's a sudden glut of beef and pork on the market - albeit pretty short lived.
That's what I'm maybe thinking, Duluth. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled just in case. We're definitely getting deer tags this fall.
The exclamation point on the OP Title reminds me of how GOPers have been rooting for failure and touting any negative news or event that could work against our incumbent President.
Step two, blame Obama.
Yes, he caused the drought, the oil spill in the Gulf, the Bush Bank Bust and Bail-out, and the Trillions in debt that Bush created out of a surplus.
Theses Rightists are willing to go to any lengths to elect Romney and make the Bush Recession permanent.
And lest we forget, the rich are the ones who built this country. Had nothing to do with our military, our government, our police and firemen, our labor force, our teachers, schools and communities. Nope it was all due to the Duponts, the Rockefellers, the Hiltons and the Romneys. Yes, the plutocrats built our country.
The wealthy stock brokers on Wall Street, the CEO's, the investment capitalists, the out-sourcers, and guys like Mitt that took their money out of the country.
The rest of us were just along for the ride .
Thanks for sharing. That was very uplifting--NOT. So what's your point, heri?
"This drought was a surprise for everybody," Volpe said.
So the USDA is operated by the un-informed. That's not a surprise, unlike the drought (apparently) and also at least a partial explanation for why gov agencies are so poor at adapting to circumstances.
And you pegged it exactly, I suppose?
It was shortsighted to "offshore" the rain dancers.
Large and severe droughts are NOT a surprise, given what climate scientists have been telling gov agencies for years. These agencies are operated by jack-asses.
A little starvation isn't going to hurt most people in the US, will probably be a good thing and give their digestive tracts and other vital organs such as pancreas a break. Our bodies evolved to survive cycles of feast and famine. I think it's ironic we are killing ourselves with too much food.
It would probably behoove many to start adjusting their diets now, to reduce future suffering, although that's not likely to happen.