Expanding on online animals

garyfla_gw(10 Florida)August 19, 2005

Hi

Was reading the "Online animals" post and thought this a good topic especially for beginners. Hopefully those with experience would expand on how to go about purchasing animals. i have both bought and sold birds via the internet but never reptiles and could write a book on what to look out for lol.

Cdfortin says there are a lot of "scams" how would a newbie know what to look for??. Also how do you determine the value of the animal and what type guarantees should you expect or demand lol.

I have been very lucky compared to others that I've heard of. I dislike buying anything without seeing it first

but find that there really isn't much choice if it's rare or hard to find.

There is a story going around the bird lists that a person sold a"Recently weaned T-rex complete with vet check and normal shots" for 500 bucks. Don't know if the story is true but somehow I would suspect it was a "scam" lol

Give us some clues of what to look for when reading the ads...Thanks

gary

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Cdfortin(GA)

The safest way to go (especially for beginners) is to use a reputable online company (like lllreptile.com). Whenever you use an online company, check it's gaurentee policy. Most companies, lllrepilte inclluded, offer a live arrival/health quality gaurentee that protects buyers to a reasonable extent. Also, make sure the company willingly provides an actual phone/street address so that you have the power to file a complaint with authorities if needed.

The next option would be to use classifieds. When dealing with classifieds, try to buy from sellers who are actually larger companies. For example, lllreptile regularly post on the kingsnake.com classifieds. Once again, try to get a contact other that the e-mail address, so that you have a way to track the seller down if need be. If a "seller feedback" option exists, be sure to read comments left by previous customers.

Another option is online auction. This can be risky yet extremely rewarding. ALWAYS check a seller's feedback to make sure he/she is reputable. Again, try to establish a way to track them down besides e-mail. And only buy from individuals who know what they're doing in terms shipping, sexing, medication, ect.

I know I really didn't go into much detail on this post, but I hope it helps. I love ordering animals online, and, after ordering online a few times, you get a real good sense of the entire process.

And, always ship next day air!!!

    Bookmark   August 21, 2005 at 12:15AM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

hi
Thanks for the info. You've obviously had good experiences with buying on line On the whole that's been my experience also. My worst experience was was a shipment that got lost .Sat in a warehouse for five days. And this was with a tracking number!!
Have no experience with reptiles and would think it's a lot less complicated than birds. Have some questions for you
On reptiles in general and frogs in particular are there any than fall under CITES regs?? Licenses or permits required?? Are there any specie that cannot be traded??
Are any permits required for N.American specie??
Do any of the DF's fall under"Venemous" laws?? my understanding is that it is a contact neurotoxin so obviously wouldn't be grouped with say, Cobras?
Is there a central info center such as ISIS for birds or AZA
Where can you check regs and import export laws??
One last question. Are there any laws restricting the sale of any specie to captive bred only?? If so How do I know for sure they are CB??
Thanks for the help
gary

    Bookmark   August 21, 2005 at 6:14AM
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Cdfortin(GA)

Ok, I'm no expert but I'll see if I can answer some of your questions.

Yeah, it's always a risk that the carrier will lose your package. And insurance doesn't cover live animals. Keep that in mind if you're buying something really expensive...

As far as CITES regs, you usually don't have to worry about that when shipping herps within the continental US. When shipping herps internationally, you need to purchase a CITES certificate.

Licenses/permits are always required for venomous species. The same goes for some herps (especially endangered ones) from the United States and other countries. There are some species that can't be traded anywhere, such as the Figi Island Banded Iguana.

PDF's do not fall under Venomous laws.

In terms of laws and regs, there are literally thousands (sorry-no clue about birds). My advice to you is: Don't worry!! If a reputable dealer offers an animal and is willing to ship it within the U.S., then you can be pretty sure that it's a legal sale. It's their responsibility to worry about regulations for you. After all, it's their livelyhood on the line, and they'd better know what they're doing in terms of legally shipping animals. And, if you see something suspicious, such as a "giant asian monkey-eating dogfish," than research it.

I know that there are detailed databases on the web that define CITES regs, but I've never bothered to read them. They would definaly be associated with gov't web pages.

Hope this helps.

Danny

    Bookmark   August 23, 2005 at 11:04PM
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tfraleigh(Ont)

I've always wanted to order online, but I could never find anywhere whithin canda. From the US the CITES regulations make it way too expensive, and I'm always worried some strange Ontarian By-Law will stop it from being succesful.

Which is too bad because i REALLY want a pair of Blue-Webbed GLiding Tree Frogs

    Bookmark   August 24, 2005 at 12:23AM
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garyfla_gw(10 Florida)

Hi
Thanks for the info. Sounds slightly less complicated than birds lol. I was wondering about the proof of an animal being captive bred. Many CITES registered birds can still be traded but you must have proof they were captive bred and not imported.Of course this is easy with a bird.
A recorded closed band is 100 percent proof of where the bird came from. Don't see how that would work on a frog lol.
Is there a method of proving a DF is captive bred??
I much prefer buying these type animals for many reasons
With birds I usually buy CB from a fellow hobbyist. This is getting almost impossible as specie get rarer. Only about 12 countries allow the export of birds at all.
Thanks again for the info. Always nice to have some idea what you're getting into lol
gary

    Bookmark   August 24, 2005 at 5:17AM
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Cdfortin(GA)

Most online stores specify CB or Wild Caught. If they sell it, be it CB or WC, you can be pretty shure that it's legal. *Most PDF's these days are CB. Some herps simply won't breed in captivity or are not popular enough to make an attempt. I'm willing to bet that most of the blue webb gliding frogs you'll find on the market are WC, and if they were CB, they'd be much more expensive.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2005 at 12:00AM
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