Pink Brandywine Sudduth Strain vs. OTV

robinava(6B)January 14, 2014

What is the difference in taste and quality and which is your favorite?
Thanks,

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Taste is subjective so your taste preference is likely very different from mine or others. The both taste excellent to me.

Quality? How do you define it? Both are high over-all quality IMO and I grow both as well as a couple of other Brandywine varieties.

But the production of OTV is 2-3x that of Sudduth or Landis in my gardens so in terms of production it would be my "favorite".

Dave

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 12:22PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Of those varieties that have only genes for Brandywine, I've grown many of the various strains, Brandywine ( talking now ONLY of the pink fruited ones) Sudduth/Quisenberry) is by far my favorite.

There are several varieties that have Brandywine as part of the name but have genes from other varieties in them, and two examples might include Liam's Brandywine and OTV Brandywine,

See the link below for information abou tOTV Brandywine and you'll see that it was a natural cross between Brandywine and an unknown other parent that occurred in the garden of Craig LeHoullier inNC.

He had sent seeds of Yellow Brandywine to someone and got back a pictureof a large red beefsteak one with PL foliage along with seeds from those kinds of fruits

Craig is a very good long time friend of mine, 25 years , he had no room to dehybridize the F2 seeds so sent them to me, since I had lots of room,

I'm the Carolyn Male you see mentioned in the link below and it took me I think 5 years to get it to genetic stability.

Of course I like it and you can see that others do as well from the seed availability listing on the page I linked to below, and there are other sources not yet listed for 2014 b'c Tania hasn't yet been sent that info.

Why do so many folks like it? It sets fruits better in the south where some of the pure Brandys don't. It is very productive and also the taste is great.

So your choice on those Brandywines that have only Brandywine genes or not when comparing the two you mentioned.

In your 6b area you can grow both well, so why not grow both and make a direct comparison, which is the only way you'll know what suits you best.

Taste is both personal and perceptual so it makes no difference what someone else tells you since there are so many variables involved such as how you grow your tomatoes, inground or containers,. what amendments you use, which ones, how much and when, and what the weather is like in any one season.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: OTV Brandywine

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 1:20PM
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robinava(6B)

Dave I see that you answered both of my posts, thank you.
Quality over productivity is my choice.

Carolyn, thank you for such a wonderful detailed description. I read many of your answers on other posts and have actually decided to make my purchases based on your suggestions. These will be my first heirlooms all of which you have suggested at one time or another.

Cherokee Purple
Black Krim
Earl of Edgecomb
Brandywine Sudduth Strain
Black Cherry
Green Grape (not on your list)
Opalka Paste
Amish Paste ( not on your list)
How am I doing?

Both of you appear to be very active in the tomato forum and I thank you. Any additions or subtractions would be appreciated as I will be placing my order tomorrow. Plan to put up lots of whole tomatoes and sauces.

Rob

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 9:07PM
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robinava(6B)

Dave I noticed that you mentioned if you were to only grow one tomato that it would be Rutger's. Would it be the original strain or the Rutger's VF improved strain?

Robin

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 10:56PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

You are doing fine but let me add some comments.

Cherokee Purple , I prefer Indian Stripe, a version of CP
Black Krim , I prefer Black from Tula
Earl of Edgecomb , add an e and yes
Brandywine Sudduth Strain, yes
Black Cherry , yes
Green Grape (not on your list) I grew it years ago but prefer in a GWRipe cherry Verde Claro, Green Doctors or Green Zebra Cherry

Opalka Paste , OK for a paste but also Heidi and Mama Leone if you must grow a paste

Amish Paste ( not on your list) I have never considered it a paste b'c it's far too juicy
How am I doing?

I don't know about additions b/c I don't know how much room you have nor what you prefer and any list I might give would not leave you time to order tomorrow.

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 14, 2014 at 11:49PM
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fcivish(Zone 6 Utah)

I have never liked Brandywine, Sudduth, Landis, Quisenberry or any of the other pink ones. Production for me is universally horrible (most years this means NO tomatoes from most Brandywine plants, and minimal production from a few of them). But I am talking here of only Brandywine (the PINK kind). When I do get ANY of these Brandywine tomatoes I find the taste to be inferior. To me it tastes like a CANNING tomato rather than an eating tomato.

Brandy Boy Hybrid LOOKS very similar and has much better production, but even a bit worse on taste.

On the other hand, I LOVE Brandywine Yellow and Brandywine OTV and similar tomatoes. Very good flavor and better production.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 1:42AM
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robinava(6B)

Carolyn, thanks for the additional suggestions, will adjust my orders accordingly. It looks like I'll be off to a good start after all. Plan to grow all from seeds and plant out about 20 or so plants. Lots of room in my new garden. Will be a first timer for canning as well. Your suggestions on other posts of using a mixture of any tomatoes for sauces is great so will only toss in a smidgen of paste. Now the search is on just how to stake these little giants.

Fcivish sorry to hear that you had so many problems with your Brandywines but the general consensus is that they taste great, perhaps it was your soil or the weather that altered their taste. Either way will give the Pink Sudduth a try and I thank you for your feedback.

Robin

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 8:50AM
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fcivish(Zone 6 Utah)

Robin,

I have tried to grow Brandywine at 3 different houses, here in Utah, and it is always the same. VERY poor production, and, to me, inferior flavor. Nurseries that sell Heirloom tomato plants almost never carry it around here, and when they do, it always looks kind of scraggly and leggy, so I can only assume other people in Utah must be having similar experience. I'd like to hear about it if anyone around here has done well with them. I have almost always grown mine from seed and have tried seed from multiple sources, with identical results, so I gave up.

Our climate here is listed as Zone 6, but we are relatively high, 4000 to 5000 feet altitude and very dry. Utah is the second driest state in the country, after Nevada with very dry air and little natural rainfall during most summers as well as high heat, with multiple days over 100 degrees. So I can only assume that it just doesn't do well in our climate.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 5:10PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Dave I noticed that you mentioned if you were to only grow one tomato that it would be Rutger's. Would it be the original strain or the Rutger's VF improved strain?

Makes little difference. It is usually easier to find VFA seeds if looking to order some.

Dave

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 5:28PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

I have also read that Brandywine does not like HOT weather (as Fcivish describes above). But then here by the PNW (Seattle WA) that we have cool summers, my Brandywine failed miserable in 2013. It just kept on growing foliage, up to 7 ft., and produced just a few fruits late in September. and most did not get ripe.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 5:31PM
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robinava(6B)

I too live in zone 6, we have heavy spring rains, summers can get quite hot but it is not a dry heat. Perhaps I should reconsider this one and go for the yellow as fcvish suggested. Any suggestions for a good red slicer?

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 8:52PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

To me there is also a "sportsmanship" and "hobby" dimension in gardening and growing tomatoes too. Not everything is measured by the pound. Visual an appearance is also has a place. I am not a market grower and I am not a big canner either. So I like varieties even with less than average productivity, as long as they were not pain in the neck. In this respect Brandywine did not meet my requirement. It was more of a PIN. I did NOT enjoy growing it.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 3:36AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

If I changed sowing seeds for varieties that others said did not do well for them, I'd have missed some great varieties.

No two persons have the same situations as to how or where they grow their tomatoes, weather and all the other variables I've mentioned here, so if it were me I'd grow what I wanted to and find out for myself.

As for a good red slicer you might want to consider:

Neves Azorean Red
Ashleigh
Chapman
Red Penna
Aker's West Virginia
Cuostralee

to name a very few,

Carolyn

This post was edited by carolyn137 on Thu, Jan 16, 14 at 9:38

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 8:56AM
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fcivish(Zone 6 Utah)

For a red slicer I tend to go with fairly productive medium sized tomatoes with what I consider to be good flavor. That would include things like RED BRANDYWINE (Not related to regular Brandywine), Mule Team, Box Car Willie, almost any Bulgarian tomato (they all tend to be sweet), and then for larger and later tomatoes of great flavor I like things such as Marianna's Peace, Italian Sweet and Stump of the World.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 10:24AM
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robinava(6B)

Carolyn, you are absolutely right. Being a newbee I can be swayed and I do listen to the comments of others but the ultimate decision is always mine. I quite agree that one could miss the boat by not following their instincts and I am buying the BW Pink Sudduth strain. You will enjoy this one, I set up a document file titled "Carolyn's Choice." I listed your choices by color and types, have gone though numerous posts and copied your advice knowing that I can't go wrong with any selection.

Seysonn, productivity is certainly not my primary goal either, and, as you stated diversification and taste is.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 10:39AM
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robinava(6B)

Fcivish, thanks for the list. It seems to get longer by the hour. Isn't it wonderful to have soo many varieties to select from with soo many tastes being accommodated.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 10:45AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

(For a red slicer I tend to go with fairly productive medium sized tomatoes with what I consider to be good flavor. That would include things like RED BRANDYWINE (Not related to regular Brandywine), Mule Team, Box Car Willie, almost any Bulgarian tomato (they all tend to be sweet), and then for larger and later tomatoes of great flavor I like things such as Marianna's Peace, Italian Sweet and Stump of the World.)

You've got some pinks in there with the reds

About Box Car Willie and Mule Team, both good, but I think even better is another one that Joe's father bred, which is Red Barn.

Joe found the above three and also Great Divide and Pasture already named in glass jars in a toolhouse. He couldn't germinate them, sent them to me, and I was able to get the ones I named above going, but there were three that I couldn't germinate and I always wondered what they might have turned out to be.

Carolyn, who sometimes cuts and pastes info from a post she's answering b'c this Senior Citizen cannot always remember all that was said, and hates going back to a previous post to check. LOL

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 1:51PM
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robinava(6B)

Again I thank all of you for the copious amount of lists and information. Perhaps one day I will be able to share my tomato expertise, but for the present, all I can to is ask questions and take advice.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 3:16PM
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Deeby

If OTV means off the vine-what does that mean? Why would it be a name?

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 4:00PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Off The Vine (OTV) was simply name we choose for our International newsletter. Craig has a blog and the name he chose for that is quite similar, but right now I don't remember what it is,

Not that different from I heard it on the grapevine, ahem, and newsletters back then had some pretty interesting names as I recall.

Off the Vine refers to the fruits, b'c most of the articles featured info about specific varieties persons important in the field of tomatoes and so much more, There weren't articles about how to sow seeds, how to save seeds, and the rest of the basics

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 5:00PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

If OTV means off the vine-what does that mean? Why would it be a name?

Nothing strange at all about the name Craig and Carolyn gave it. Not when compared to many other names. Stump of the World comes to mind as does Black Boar, 1884, Watermelon, Arkansas Traveler, West Virginia Straw, etc. And yes, they are all tomatoes.

The developer can name it anything they wish and there are thousands of unusual tomato names out there.

Dave

Carolyn - Craig's current blog is "From the Vine". And he also posts and tweets as NCTomatoMan of course.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 8:51PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Thanks Dave, I knew it had the word vine in it, but just didn't open it to take look.

He was having problems with the server and I just haven't followed that and he hasn't posted about it lately

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 9:49PM
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Deeby

Got it. Thanks all.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 9:58PM
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sue_ct(z6 CT)

Just my 2 cents. I have grown Brandywine every year since I bought my house and started a garden 15 years ago. I am in zone 5b/6a (it changed at one point and is now 6a). When I learned about the different Brandywines here I decided to try Sudduth and I have loved it. Brandywine does better for me than many, but some years a short season might mean few tomatoes. I don't care, the taste is worth it to me. Now I am trying to find the room for 2 of them in garden so I can compare the OTV to it, in the same year with same weather, etc. If it does well in your area, you will love it, I think. Around here if a place sells heirlooms, they almost always have it and sometimes it is the only one they have. I believe part of that is because the name is so recognizable, but obviously if it always did poorly they wouldn't sell much.

I also have grown many of Carolyns suggestions and every one has tasted great. You are wise to weigh her opinion heavily. Dave and others have also helped me a ton and devote a lot of time to answering everyones questions here so I thank them also.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 11:06PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Sure a name is just a name. But it would be better if there was a relevance and meaning to it, if at all possible: Like pineapple, cherry, ... , Mr stripy. JMO

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 7:14AM
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yardenman(z7 MD)

Every good Brandywine type tastes better than all other tomatoes. Except I sure like a Cherokee Purple just as much in a different way too.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2014 at 3:29AM
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