Is 'Crimson' Carmello the same as Carmello?

peebee1January 27, 2008

Hi, I just saw a recent posting here about Crimson Carmello, and I am confused. Is this variety different from just plain Carmello? It must be, since replies to this posting said seeds were only available from Renee's Seeds, right? Because regular Carmello is available from other sources.

What is the difference? Is it the "F1" factor in the Crimson?

Thanks!

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seedboy

Peebee1,

I posted the other thread. I too would like an answer to this question. Tomatofest has "Carmello" for sale, and Gary Ibsen doesn't say it's a hybrid. I'm wondering if "Carmello" is a dehybridized version of Crimson Carmello (or if Crimson Carmello is really a hybrid).

    Bookmark   January 27, 2008 at 9:50PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

I've been doing some Googling as well as trying to think back when I first grew both Dona and Carmello,as well as checking the SSE Yearbooks. I had initially thought that both were introduced to the US via Sheperd's seeds but now I don't think so.

What I found in doing a Google search was that this hybrid, which is VFNT tolerant, which might help some, but not many folks, is listed elsewhere online as just Carmello, not
Crimson Carmello.

The Yearbooks yielded up even more info. An OP Dona and Carmello show up as far back as 1989 which was before Renee offered them.

I grew both the first year she offered them, which was sometime in the early to mid 90's as I recall,and they were represented as being , I think, hybrids, but I'm not sure. And I'm not sure b'c both were listed as OP's in the Yearbooks before that.

I grew them both and was not particularly excited about either one.

My own take on this is that the initial ones offered by Sheperd's Seeds were not hybrids, they were OP. There was also a pepper that they offered that was said to be a hybrid and wasn't.

THere are numerous links via Google to read, I certainly didn't read them all, but at this point I think that this Carmello F1 hybrid is just the original OP Carmello with some added disease tolerances. Which again, may be meaningful or not depending on where you live, and marginally meaningful anyway.

Carmello and Dona are still listed in the 2007 SSE YEarbook and possibly that's where TOmatofest got their seeds, but again, I have no proof of that. No one who lists it in the SSE YEarbooks I looked at says anything at all about it being dehybridized from an F1.

Best I can do on this issue.

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 9:24AM
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trudi_d

I think you sneed to go directly to the source for veracity. Renee is a dear lady and she can let you know what you have with certainty.

Here is the cutsomer service email address:

customerservice@reneesgarden.com

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 9:32AM
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trudi_d

My apologies, I should have done further looking at the RG website before putting in the customer service number.

On Renee's Garden there is an equivalent listing for the name differences between Shepherd's Seeds and Renee's Garden. I love this list as it's such a great part of her integrity.

Carmello is Crimson Carmello.

I'll paste in the link for the comparison list.

Here is a link that might be useful: Renee's Garden Seeds Equivalent to Shepherd's Seeds Varieties

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 9:38AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

I think you sneed to go directly to the source for veracity. Renee is a dear lady and she can let you know what you have with certainty.

****

You beat me to it Trudi, for I was about to suggest the same thing.( smile)

I will say that sometimes the wholesale vendors misrepresent varieties to retailers, and I presume that's how the OP pepper I referred to above got listed as an F1 at her original Shepherd's Seeds.

And I should remember to say Renee's Seeds since it was many yars ago now that she sold out to White Flower Farm and then after a few years off decided to go back in business.

I will say that I was very surprised at some of the equivalents listed for Shepherd's Seeds and Renee's Seeds.

For instance, Old Flame is not Marvel Striped, and now I can't remember the others I looked at. LOL

Just last week I got her list sent to me with a free package of some zinnias. This b'c while for many eyars I was a member of the Garden Writers Association I no longer am but still get sent all sorts of stuff like the AAA winners for each year, etc.

What bothers me a bit about her list is that she offers so many mixed packs, yes, with known varieties, and then calls those mixed packs exclusives. None of the varieties by themselves are exclusives.

Ah well.

And if anyone decides to contact her refer to the initial listing for Carmello in her Shepherd's Seeds catalog as well as the OP Carmello version going back to 1989 in the SSE Yearbooks. That might help.

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 10:57AM
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trudi_d

Just last week I got her list sent to me with a free package of some zinnias. This b'c while for many eyars I was a member of the Garden Writers Association I no longer am but still get sent all sorts of stuff like the AAA winners for each year, etc.

Yeah, I get all that stuff too. It doesn't designate any importance to whomever receives it, because you just have to have your name on those particular lists.

I have to speak up for the mixed variety packs because I think they're a great value for someone who wants to have an assortment of a veggie, such as the Squash Trio which is three different types of zukes--you get a yellow, a light green and a dark green, and to help people know what they're sowing from the packet, the seeds are dyed to ID them.

So no, it's not the varieties that are exclusive, it's combining them in the way she does which is so exclusively fabulous. IMHO, the lady does it right.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 11:40AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

So no, it's not the varieties that are exclusive, it's combining them in the way she does which is so exclusively fabulous. IMHO, the lady does it right.

*****

I'm quite aware of that Trudi, but as I indicated above each of the varieties in the mix packs are known and to say that the mix is exclusive seems to me to be stretching it a bit.

If there was a new variety that only Renee was offering and only Renee, then I'd say that that variety was exclusive.

Heck, I could put together mixed packs of tomato seeds with three varieties in each, make up probably hundreds of those mixed packs, each with three different varieties and no way would I say they were exclusive b'c of the individual mixes, but that's just my own opinion.

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 2:02PM
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trudi_d

Heck, I could put together mixed packs of tomato seeds with three varieties in each, make up probably hundreds of those mixed packs, each with three different varieties and no way would I say they were exclusive b'c of the individual mixes, but that's just my own opinion.

whatevs

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 2:31PM
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peebee1

Thank you for your replies, I guess I'm sort of enlightened...I just got another seed catalog and they are listing it as a hybrid. In other words,if you buy seeds from a source that says so, then I would not share any saved seeds. It's not my favorite tomato, but it was pretty good, and the healthiest, most productive one I have grown so I would grow it again just to ensure that I have tomatoes all the time while I am waiting for the other ones to ripen/produce. I have so little space, and I would rather have ANY home-grown tomato than none at all.
Thanks Trudi and Tomato Goddess!

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 6:44PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

peebee,

If you want a round red OP about the same size as Carmello with what I think is better taste, please consider:

Break O Day, a wonderful older commercial variety
Druzba
Red Brandywine, but watch out where you get it from
Bulgarian #7

,,, for starters. And all of the above are available commercially and all of them are at Sandhill Preservation, but I see you're in zone 10 so you should have already sowed your seeds, as I see it, and as Sandhill says at their site, you have to have patience when requesting seeds at this time of the year. TGS has, I think, all but Break O Day but to get the right Red Brandywine get the one that has Landis associated with the name.

Am I'm not a tomato goddess; I flew too close to the sun and my wings and halo burned up and I crashed to earth. LOL

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 7:50PM
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peebee1

okay, I will look into those varieties for next year. It's not that it HAS to be a round red--my #1 priority is abundance. LOTS of tomatoes! Brandywines were tried years ago, not very productive. I can only grow 8 or 9 varieties, so I grow one plant for productivity alone. The rest I grow for taste, or cuz it's new to me. I'll use the Carmello as a "filler" in my salsa(mixed with tastier toms) and in ratatouille. So while I have your attention, T.G., are the ones you mentioned also productive? If not, any suggestion would be so appreciated. I hear that Boxcar Willie is also a good one. I like all colors, but no cherries or small ones please...

Suzie, who believes in the Tomato Goddess more than she does the Tooth Fairy

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 11:38PM
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tom8olvr(Z5 MA)

"to help people know what they're sowing from the packet, the seeds are dyed to ID them. "

Trudi, I've always stayed away from the 'mixes'... if I want 3 different toms, squash or flowers I want to pick and chose where there going, etc. Because I've never bought the mixes I had no idea that they DYE them to identify them! Is this a standard or something that just Renee does??

    Bookmark   January 29, 2008 at 8:29AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

I had no idea that they DYE them to identify them! Is this a standard or something that just Renee does??

****

There are others who also dye seeds in a mix of various vegetables, but more common are just mixed broccolis', cabbages, squash, etc., at various places, where you just plant and hope. ( smile)

At one site where I post someone bought a mixed pack of tomatoes and the seeds were dyed, yet what grew out was not what was supposed to be in the pack.

Some good folks here IDed one that she couldn't ID and it turned out to probably be Japanese Trifle Black and when she e-mailed the source they had no idea how that one got into the pack, or so they said. Sigh.

Carolyn

    Bookmark   January 29, 2008 at 8:45AM
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trudi_d

I've not encountered any mixups yet in a pack of Renee's blended seeds, but I've only grown a few of her mixed packs--some melons, tomatoes, zukes, and some lettuce blends. The best thing to do is for people to buy a Renee's mixed pack and see what grows because there's no greater witness than their own eyes; I always strongly encourage people to learn by doing because that is a great way to obtain skill, experience and knowldege.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2008 at 9:04AM
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adrianag(AL z7)

"It's not that it HAS to be a round red--my #1 priority is abundance. LOTS of tomatoes"

Peebee1, Carmello will meet your requirements, it is HUGELY productive, and a very good tomato as well. Nice, round uniform bright red meaty globes. I grew them a few years back for a chef who specifically requested them.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2008 at 9:55AM
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