Not that it will ever matter ...

chase_gwJuly 18, 2013

.....but it appears another shoe in the IRS scandal is about to drop.

Apparently the IRS was investigating both liberal and conservative "tax free" organizations. Interesting that the information about progressive organizations was not revealed to the auditor during the initial investigation.

.....Not that it will ever matter...

Here is a link that might be useful: Auditor general reopening IRS investigation

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momj47(7A)

Actually, it was, but the progressive organizations don't have Faux News to scream for them.

This scrutiny was discussed here. Here's one examples. See alexr's post at 4:14 on June 3.

The progressive organizations probably figured it wasn't so outrageous. Some were rejected by the IRS as too political.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link

    Bookmark   July 18, 2013 at 8:58PM
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mrskjun(9)

This might be why.

Meanwhile, in a letter released Thursday, J. Russell George, the Treasury inspector general for tax administration (TIGTA), noted that out of the 298 groups set aside for a closer look between May 2010 and May 2012, only six had the words "progress" or "progressive" in their names.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   July 18, 2013 at 10:10PM
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labrea_gw

From Today Bloomberg!
"“This was a targeting of the president’s political enemies, effectively, and lies about it during the election year so that it wasn't discovered until afterwards,”

The BS artist took it back today talking about how careful people needed to be in what they say because words matter. He lied today and said he never said any of it. though tape doesn't lie.

The Internal Revenue Service’s inspector general told Congress he’s “disturbed” that he didn’t receive until this month a July 2010 document that mentioned scrutiny of “progressive” nonprofit groups.
“I am very disturbed that these documents were not provided to our auditors at the outset, and we are currently reviewing this issue,” J. Russell George told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. “I’m concerned that there may be additional pieces of information that we don’t have.”
George’s May 14 audit, showing the IRS singled out Tea Party groups that sought tax-exempt status, sparked a controversy that has cost IRS executives their jobs and led to a criminal investigation. Democrats have criticized George for failing to disclose that Republican-leaning groups weren’t the only ones that received extra scrutiny.
The inquiries into the IRS have become increasingly partisan as Republicans continue their pursuit of Washington-based IRS officials who were involved in the review process.
‘Unanswered Question’
“The big unanswered question of all these hearings is why. Why were these groups targeted,” said Representative Scott DesJarlais, a Tennessee Republican. “There does seem to be somebody who doesn’t want the truth to come out.”
Democrats have argued that the initial insinuations by Republicans of a political conspiracy have proved to be untrue.
The documents that were the focus of George’s comments today include a presentation that lumped progressives with Tea Party groups and meeting minutes that said progressives weren’t Tea Party groups.
George said he doesn’t have complete findings on how progressive groups were scrutinized.
He said in his testimony that IRS officials were the ones who said they had focused on Tea Party groups for potential impermissible political involvement and not progressive groups identified in another part of a Be on the Lookout, or BOLO, document.
“We focused our audit on the BOLO entries shown in this document precisely because the IRS represented that these were the criteria relevant to potential political cases,” George said.
Pro-Democrat Groups
George said he had known since May 20 that there were BOLO listings that had included Democratic-leaning groups. He said he would have written the audit differently if he had known about that beforehand.
“You know people’s heads would explode if you talked about Tea Party BOLOs and you didn’t mention any other ones,” said Representative Matthew Cartwright, a Pennsylvania Democrat.
George responded to criticism from Democrats that he had blocked the release of certain information about Democratic-leaning groups on the July 2010 document. He said the IRS changed its mind about whether that information is subject to taxpayer-privacy rules and that the inspector general’s lawyers are reviewing the issue.
George also said that he had been told there was a “smoking gun” in e-mails showing the origins of the scrutiny. That’s why investigators looked at 5,500 e-mails and found no evidence of political motivation.
The committee also heard from Elizabeth Hofacre, who processed applications in Cincinnati, and Carter Hull, a retired IRS employee based in Washington.
Representative Jim Jordan, an Ohio Republican, focused on the fact that Hull, a 48-year veteran of the IRS, had Tea Party cases taken from him and given to a junior employee after a meeting with attorneys from the IRS chief counsel’s office.
“The real harassment was never getting to an answer” as the groups were kept waiting in their bid for tax-exempt status, Jordan said.
Jordan said the committee plans to seek testimony from William Wilkins, the chief counsel of the IRS. Wilkins is a political appointee of President Barack Obama. So far, no evidence has emerged that Wilkins was involved in the scrutiny of politically oriented nonprofit groups.

This post was edited by labrea on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 22:47

    Bookmark   July 18, 2013 at 10:39PM
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chase_gw

To clarify ....

This is BRAND NEW information that the AG has uncovered. He said says it is significant enough that he would have written the report differently had he know it. It would appear that the numbers of progressives scrutinized is much larger than reported in June..

from the post above......

"The Internal Revenue Service’s inspector general told Congress he’s “disturbed” that he didn’t receive until this month a July 2010 document that mentioned scrutiny of “progressive” nonprofit groups.

“I am very disturbed that these documents were not provided to our auditors at the outset, and we are currently reviewing this issue,” J. Russell George told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. “I’m concerned that there may be additional pieces of information that we don’t have.”

and more importantly this......

" He said he would have written the audit differently if he had known about that beforehand. "

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 7:53AM
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mrskjun(9)

Sounds like a smoke screen.

George said IRS officials told him that the BOLO list was used by agents to select potential political cases. At no time did IRS officials provide additional information about progressive groups being screened, nor did they contradict his findings put forth in the IG's final report.

"IRS staff at multiple levels concurred with our analysis," George testified.

Although in the end it should be irrelevant what groups were targeted. The fact that any group is targeted by the IRS should give someone a chill. The IRS has ultimate control and power which should never be used arbitrarily.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:05AM
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demifloyd(8)

Although in the end it should be irrelevant what groups were targeted. The fact that any group is targeted by the IRS should give someone a chill. The IRS has ultimate control and power which should never be used arbitrarily. d

*

Thank you mrskjun for understanding the salient point about this nasty chapter of the Obama Administration.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:07AM
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chase_gw

Of course the above statement is the important issue.

To bad it wasn't the focus when it was thought to be only conservative groups.

Now that the AG has said he would actually have written the report differently had he had this information AND there has been clear testimony that the "targeting" was directed by IRS officials and had absolutely NO connection to the WH....

...it's all about what it should have been about all along.

Would be really interesting if this boils down to simply scrutinizing all political affiliated groups for non tax status to ensure they were entitled.. which is exactly what the IRS should be doing.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:13AM
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mrskjun(9)

Yes, he should have included the six progressive groups. In fact they could join the 41 conservative groups that have brought suit against the IRS. What I find amazing is that many conservatives have come forward with the stories of how they were targeted, what it cost them, the number of groups that finally just gave up. Yet not one progressive or progressive group has come forward with a single story. Wonder why that is?

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:20AM
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chase_gw

Mrs...how do you know it is 6?

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:21AM
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mrskjun(9)

Refuting Democratic suggestions that progressive groups were also swept up in the IRS probe of the tax status of Tea Party organizations, the Treasury Department's inspector general has revealed that just six progressive groups were targeted compared to 292 conservative groups.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:28AM
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chase_gw

Mrs let me try this again....

The statements from the AG are statements made YESTERDAY and indicate that he is NOW in possession of information he previously did NOT know. He said that the information is such that he would have changed the way he wrote the report.

He did NOT indicate the specifics of the new information...at least not that I could find.

What you are quoting is the information known to him at the time of the report.....in other words old news.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:35AM
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mrskjun(9)

Ok chase, where are all those progressive groups that were targeted? Have you seen them testify? They been on MSNBC, CNN, NBC? Have you seen anything that shows you there have been more than the six already reported?

All I saw yesterday was a bunch of dems browbeating an AG for doing his job. The closer this gets to Washington the angrier they get. As long as it was a couple of rogue agents in Cincinnati, they were full of righteous indignation toward the IRS. Not so much now. Now they just want it to go away...move on, nothing to see here.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:41AM
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ohiomom

Well you did say Chase "not that it will ever matter"...

....like a dog with a bone

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:47AM
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chase_gw

I find it just as interesting that relatively few of the vast numbers of Conservative groups targeted only choose to come forward when there was a huge "political" scandal targeting the WH in the air.....silent all these years finally speaking out....ya sure.

Perhaps the Progressive groups targeted did not come forward because they believed the scrutiny of their tax exempt status to be a valid function of the IRS.....

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:47AM
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jodik_gw

"A spokesman for Treasury Inspector General J. Russell George told The Hill on Tuesday that Issa had requested investigators “narrowly focus on tea party organizations.”"

Here is a link that might be useful: Issa Knows...

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:48AM
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chase_gw

My . my, my .....how the worm has turned.......

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 8:54AM
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mrskjun(9)

Why has the worm turned chase? Shouldn't everyone be upset if any groups are targeted. So much that they are even supposed to list the books that they read, are illegally asked for their donor lists? It seems the worm that has turned is now the democrats who simply want this to go away. Why is that? They were incensed at the IRS as long as it was rogue agents in Cincinnati. Now that it is finding it's way to Washington they are ready to sweep it all under the rug. Why is that?

Conservative groups started coming forward when they found out they were not being targeted individually, but en masse. Which only seems logical.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 9:11AM
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chase_gw

Mrs.....did you read the link attached by Jodi?

"The bombshell IRS audit released in May omitted information about liberal groups AT THE REQUEST of House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA), according to the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration’s office.

A spokesman for Treasury Inspector General J. Russell George told The Hill on Tuesday that Issa had REQUESTED investigators “narrowly focus on tea party organizations.”

Darrel ISSA specifically asked the AG's office to omit any information about liberal groups and focus ONLY on the Tea Party.

ISSA asked for the audit and asked that it only focus on transgressions against conservative groups and not include trangressions against liberal groups.

Then with report in hand he set about trying to make this all about the President requesting the IRS to target conservatives.

I cannot understand how any American would not be utterly appalled with Issa's actions. The only action I think more appalling is that the AG's office conducted the audit u8nder those stipulations...not good.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 9:24AM
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mrskjun(9)

“We focused our audit on the BOLO entries shown in this document precisely because the IRS represented that these were the criteria relevant to potential political cases,” George said.

So maybe we shouldn't be in such a hurry for this investigation to come to an end should we. Sounds like the IRS is just full of dirty tricks.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 9:40AM
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jerzeegirl(9)

Sounds to me like Issa is the one full of dirty tricks (which is no surprise to many of us).

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 9:49AM
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david52_gw

This discussion assumes that there are an equal number of conservative group and liberal group applications to the IRS for tax free status.

And I have no idea if thats true or not.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 10:04AM
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jodik_gw

It's okay, Chase... I'm quite used to posted links not being opened, and relevant articles with up to date information or real facts not being read. I can only guess that it makes the discussion more lively for some... or something.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 11:20AM
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chisue

We should wish the IRS would look VERY closely at any person, organization, corporation, etc. that is claiming it doesn't owe taxes.

That's its' job.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 11:25AM
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chase_gw

Yes it is there job and it may come to pass that it is clear they were in fact just doing their job.

So here's how it went......

o Certain conservative organizations complain to Issa

o Issa sees a golden opportunity to play another round of "gotcha" with a WH he despises.

o Issa asks the AG to conduct an audit but to limit the audit to only conservative organizations and not include information about the targeting of liberal organizations.

o Report comes out, and Isaa is shocked... I tell you...shocked to discover that the IRS was targetting only Conservative groups and the right wing machine goes nuts.

We must have hearings!!! ,, we must get to the bottom of this!!!! Clearly the WH was behind this..!!! The director of the IRS should go to jail!!! Taking the 5th ..she'll never get away with that!!!

o Months later the AG testifies that Issa made the request for a very specific and skewed audit......

o The AG says if he knew then, what he knows now, the report would have been entirely different....

Now , all of a sudden, it's irrelevant what groups were targeted. Well it sure wasn't irrelevant when this contrived witch hunt was started by ISSA himself.

Those who called for the jailing of the IRS folk should be calling for Issa's ouster.

......not that it will ever matter.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 11:48AM
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david52_gw

Chase, it worked. And thats what matters.

Half the population now believes that the White House was behind IRS investigations of conservative groups.

Although there is a mountain of evidence proving that isn't true, and none at all that it is true.

Which is why, now, there is all this hesitancy about getting a special prosecutor etc. Because that would just shine a light on the lies.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 11:53AM
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jerzeegirl(9)

The man has no credibility and I don't know why anyone would listen to him under any circumstance. He's a real boob.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 11:53AM
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jodik_gw

I'm shocked, I tell ya, simply shocked! Well, okay... not that shocked as Issa's behavior... actually, I'm not even a little bit shocked by such behavior. The GOP has been on a perpetual WH witch hunt since Obama was elected... so nothing they do is a shock.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 12:02PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

Correction: Half the population Fox News viewers now believe that the White House was behind IRS investigations of conservative groups.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 12:03PM
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mrskjun(9)

Half the population now believes that the White House was behind IRS investigations of conservative groups.

Now, we know that's a fallacy david. Obama only knows that these things are happening when he hears it on the news like the rest of us. Great video.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 12:05PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

ISSA asked for the audit and asked that it only focus on transgressions against conservative groups and not include trangressions against liberal groups.

I wonder if the CA GOP will step in a second time to stop Issa if he decides to run for governor again.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 2:01PM
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chase_gw

They ought to this man is not well........he has an obsession with this President that is not rational.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 2:14PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

he has an obsession with this President that is not rational.

I think he's doing what the House GOP leaders want him to do; he's just not very clever in the way that he carries out those duties.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 2:17PM
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mylab123(z5NW)

Nancy, exactly right.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 2:24PM
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Pidge

Anybody who refers to the highly-respected Clyburn as a "little boy" is clearly the most obtuse man in congress.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 4:31PM
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jillinnj

BENGHAZI

Same old, same old.

And as you said originally, chase...Not that it will ever matter

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 5:15PM
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chase_gw

It will be interesting to see the spin on this new set of facts over the next few days...my bet.....we won't hear much...

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 7:51PM
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jillinnj

By the response to this thread...looks like you are correct, chase.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 12:27PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

I for one have never understood why a group of people in the IRS who were doing their job for a change-more or less considering how the cases were decided-are symptoms of a Democratic government gone feral.

The IRS does not work for the Obama administration and with all the tweaking and scratching around no one has found even the vestige of a hint of attempts by anyone from the White House to get them to do so.

I wonder why any of you would think a president of any ilk has the time to oversee the inner workings of a civil governmental department? This president was busy making sure that 4 people were killed at Benghazi, surely he had enough on his plate at the time.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 12:45PM
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mrskjun(9)

Ms. Hofacre of the Cincinnati office testified that when she was given tea-party applications, she had to kick them upstairs. When she was given non-tea-party applications, they were sent on for normal treatment. Was she told to send liberal or progressive groups for special scrutiny? No, she did not scrutinize the applications of liberal or progressive groups. "I would send those to general inventory." Who got extra scrutiny? "They were all tea-party and patriot cases." She became "very frustrated" by the "micromanagement" from Washington. "It was like working in lost luggage." She applied to be transferred.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 5:27PM
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david52_gw

Going back a bit, who opened the door for blatant political entities to get into this whole tax-free 501c "social welfare' thing?

Before, it was stuff like United Way, the Special Olympics - clearly non-profit, social welfare organizations that get all their funds from contributions.

So how did Moveon.org and CrossRoadsGPS get in there?

Let alone "9/12ers to Overthrow Socialism"

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 11:57AM
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october17(5chgo)

"Actually, it was, but the progressive organizations don't have Faux News to scream for them."

No, they don't need Faux. They have plenty of their own: MSM.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 1:02PM
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