what varieties are these seeds? sapote -guava

greenman62February 3, 2014

Someone i know brought me back seeds from Nicaragua.
I am sure these are home grown heirlooms
(for many, many generations) ,
and since she speaks little English, we had to figure out what kinds of seeds they were.
She is from a very poor area of Nicaragua

I am pretty sure i have it down to...
Sapote
Starfruit
Guava.

She didnt know what kind of Sapote, i asked her white or black, she said no, but maybe that was a mus-understanding.
Almost positive its not Mamey or black

The guava she said had either white, or more likely a yellowish flesh.
i was able to show her a picture of a starfruit and she said YES to the 2 darker/flat seeds.

She also gave me lots of Annatto /Achiote seeds as well, but i knew what those were.
(if anyone wants a trade)

Any further info would be helpful....
thanks
Brad

This post was edited by greenman62 on Mon, Feb 3, 14 at 11:07

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trianglejohn

The big one looks like a sapote (it could be just about any of them, many look alike) and the small ones are guava.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 11:31AM
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greenman62

i am thinking it may be a canistel (ROSS Sapote?)
She said it was similar to a Nispero, but it wasnt nispero.
but then, she doesnt speak english well, and probably knows a lot about fruit in Nicaragua, but little about them in the USA

It has a white/light brown look to it.
im no expert, but i think a lot of sapote's are dark colored.

The guava seeds are big, i have 3 types of guava seeds. one Mexican guava, another was from a large tree with red-fleshed fruit, the other just says Psidium Guava

These are bigger than all of those

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 1:24PM
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sf_rhino

I'm fairly sure it is a mamey. They look like the seeds I've sprouted. Also, my in-laws are from Nicaragua and when they say sapote they are referring to mamey. I showed my m-i-l a photo of a canistel once and she didn't recognize the fruit, although they should have it in Nicaragua (it is a relatively big country).

The star fruit (which I think they say carambola or something similar) seeds I have are whitish but they could just be immature or a different cultivar (mine aren't from Nica).

ryan

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 6:32PM
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greenman62

I actually asked her if it was Mamey, she said no. Although we have a hard time communicating, its possible she or i, just misunderstood.

Interesting that your Starfruit seeds are whitish. i did a google image search, and i saw both whitish and browner looking seeds.
maybe different varieties?

i found a link with someone discussing the difference between Mamey and canistel seeds.
The Mamey seeds i think are darker than this, the one i had was anyway, but maybe color is variable , especially between cultivars?
The shape is very similar to the one Mamey seed i did have.

it seems that there are at least a couple different types of canistel with different size/shape seeds

i am thinking it could be Lucuma ?
Or even something that is not recognized here in the US.
that would be interesting :)

thanks
Brad

Here is a link that might be useful: cannistel - Mamey seeds

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 8:41AM
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sf_rhino

I learned a couple of things this morning--

My starfruit seeds are indeed brown. I recall them being whitish/yellowish when I took them from the fruit so perhaps they turn brown when they are exposed to air and/or dry out. Either that or I am totally mis-remembering. I wonder if mine are still viable, they are over a year old.

The second thing is that the whole mamey vs sapote thing is very confusing. I asked my mother-in-law about them this morning and got an answer I wasn't expecting. Of course this may all be regional but--they have a fruit they call 'sapote' which is the mamey sapote. I bought them some mameys a few months ago (I think we chatted before about finding them in Latin supermarkets) and they definitely call those sapotes; however, there is another similar (related?) fruit they call 'mamey' which is not the typical mamey sapote. What they call 'mamey' is larger and eaten harder and apparently looks similar but is different. My hypothesis is that there are two cultivars of the mamey sapote in Nicaragua. The one we commonly call mamey (and is sold in stores here as such) they call 'sapote' (but not mamey) and there is another kind I have not seem which they call 'mamey'. In doing a web search I also came across another unrelated mamey (mammee apple); I'll see if they recognize that one. So anyway if your friend is like my family what you have may indeed be a mamey sapote but not the kind that they call mamey. I'll ask my father in law about it this evening and see if he can fill in any more gaps. He is from a different region of Nicaragua. It's been my experience that there is a lot of variation in plant and animal names in Central America.

All that said, those photos photos of the canistel seeds look very similar to the mamey seeds I've seen. I know with the mamey the viability drops off pretty quick so you probably want to plant it soon if you haven't already.

Here is a link to a couple discussions with some photos of my mamey. Soaht has a lucuma growing, it has smaller leaves.

Mamey seedling & Lucuma
Mamey seeds & sprouts

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 2:03PM
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greenman62

I absolutely agree, its confusing as hell
to add to the regular taxonomy, every country has a different name for the same fruit.
I have a friend from Columbia, and he had different names for all of them, and i never heard most.

To me, a sapote is a sapodilla or Manilkara zapota
and i had thought white and yellow sapote's were cousins of the sapodilla
but it looks like i am wrong...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapote

yellow, green, mamey, lucuma and canistel
i beleive are still all Pouteria, and WIKI calls a yellow sapote a canistel.

White sapote is Casimiroa edulis,
Black Sapote, is Diospyros digyna, a species of persimmon
(i didnt know that)

Anyway, the seed was cracked, so i tried to chip the edge of it gently. there is a small hole, but it looks hollow inside.

All this and the seed was bad... arggg....
I threw it in hot water and will plant anyway just in case.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 4:03PM
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sf_rhino

There is a fruit they call níspero that I think may be the sapodilla although I'm not sure.

Too bad about the seed, but nice that you have someone brining you fun things to plant.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 4:18PM
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sf_rhino

So my grandmother-in-law confirmed that to them a 'mamey' is a mammee apple (Mammea americana; totally unrelated to the sapotaceae). She was surprised we call the mamey sapote a mamey.

She also didn't think the wikipedia photos of a sapodilla were a 'níspero', but wasn't sure. She said a níspero looks similar to a kiwi...

Here is a link that might be useful: Mammee

    Bookmark   February 5, 2014 at 12:11PM
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