Red Morning??

pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)February 16, 2011

In Jakfruit varieties there is a type known as "Red Morning", I only see one post that mentioned it and the person said they did not enjoy the type.. Also, is it worth planting a seedling of a Jakfruit??

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mango_kush

there is some debate over whether "red good morning" or "Borneo red" Jackfruit are superior. Ive never tasted one personally, only had a general unknown variety.

yes its worth growing Jackfruit from seed, I bought a 9' Bangkok Lemon (what i believe to be) seedling from a fruit sale for $80. I hear they generally come true to type or close. pretty sure it was from Excalibur

I also grow a chempendak jackfruit hybrid "cheena" which is grafted. being a hybrid Im not sure what its seedlings would produce

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 3:04PM
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hmhausman(FL 10B)

I am growing a seedling of Red Morning.....not very impressed with its growth habit so far. I also have Borneo Red grafted.....and it hasn't done particularly well either. I have never had the fruit from either but have fruited several seedlings of other varieties of jakfruit. While they (jakfruit in general) do not grow true from seed, IMO, they are worth growing from seed as the fruit will be decent more often than not.

Harry

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 4:55PM
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murahilin(10 fl)

I agree with Harry regarding the fact that jackfruit do not generally grow true from seed. I've had the fruit from many of the red morning seedlings at Excalibur and many were not that good. Some had horrible sulfur like aftertastes. I think the whole "jackfruit come true to type" BS that nurseries say is based on a few things, jackfruits aren't as easy to graft as other trees, fruit quickly from seed, the fruit from seedlings are usually okay tasting, and most people wouldn't really know the difference anyways between the fruit from the grafted tree and the seedling.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 7:04PM
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jeffhagen(10B)

My guess is that some cultivars are more true from seed than others. My understanding is that the bankok lemon that Excalibur is selling now are from seed. I believe NS1 is fairly true from seed as well.

Jeff

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 7:12PM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

So whats my best bet for finding a good Jakfruit? I have a seedling of an unknown variety that was pot bound in the ground now... I have a Red Morning seedling I was going to replace it with... Now I want to really look at another option.. HELP!! What about a THAI Globe grafted?

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 7:24PM
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murahilin(10 fl)

Jeff,
I wouldn't trust any of those bangkok lemon seedlings from Excalibur. The reason is they haven't really done any testing on whether it comes true to seed or not. It's pretty much a guess.

I don't like the idea of calling a fruit the variety name when it's not the exact tree. Fairly true to type doesn't cut it. Bangkok lemon is an excellent cultivar and I would hate for people to start propagating seedlings and calling them all bangkok lemon and ruining it for everyone. Also, the seedling of the seedling might not be that true to type but it might still be sold as bangkok lemon. Eventually we might lose a very good cultivar.

pj1881,
There are a lot of good grafted jackfruit varieties. If you are limited on space I wouldn't take the risk with a seedling.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 9:04PM
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jeffhagen(10B)

Ohh boy. Well, I guess I got lucky that I was able to get a grafted tree back when they had them.. though it wasn't cheap :-).

Jeff

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 9:58PM
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jeffhagen(10B)

err, I guess the cultivar I got was "crunchy lemon", which I was told was identical to the bangkok lemon.

Jeff

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 10:02PM
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murahilin(10 fl)

They should be the same cultivar. I think they are both now referred to as Bangkok lemon.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 10:16PM
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mango_kush

there was one called "Lemon Crunch".

my bangkok lemon was marked grafted on the tag at BRFVC spring sale 2010. It looks like a seedling though.

Ill be kinda ticked if i paid for an $80 seedling but i will hold my judgement until I taste its fruit.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 10:35PM
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jeffhagen(10B)

Seedlings can sometimes fruit faster than grafted trees :-). My NS1 seedling flew out of the ground like a lightning bolt and after 4 years from seed it already has a fruit on it. My grafted black gold which is about 18 months older than the ns1 has flowered 3 years in a row but has yet to set a fruit. It's also only about 1/2 the size of the ns1. Grafting seems to have a dwarfing effect on the jackfruit.

Jeff

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 10:51PM
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murahilin(10 fl)

MangoKush,
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but your bangkok lemon is a seedling. All the bangkok lemon trees sold at the BRFVC sale that year were bought from Excalibur. They were all seedlings that were sold at the nursery for $35. I'm guessing BRFVC had to make a profit so they jacked up the price. The fruit still might be good though. Just cant guarantee it.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 11:04AM
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red_sea_me

Jeff Hagen stated:
"Grafting seems to have a dwarfing effect on the jackfruit." very intriguing, is this just on your specific jak tree or have you noticed this on many trees? Does it shorten the node length or just remove vigor from the tree?

thanks,
-Ethan

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 12:50PM
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hmhausman(FL 10B)

My experience is that grafted jakfruit trees, like many airlayered trees just do not do the "taller rather than wider" thing that seedlings seem to do. Especially with airlayering, taking a lateral branch and using it as a main upright trunk somewhat limits the trees wanting to reach the heavens rather than grow more laterally. I have also expereinced some loss of vigor in grafted trees. But that is not an across the board thing and may be an individual somewhat idiosyncratic issue.

Harry

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 1:03PM
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mango_kush

a good stub on Jackfruit

Artocarpus Heterophyllus
(Jackfruit)
Other Names: Jaka, Jakfruit, Langka

Related To: [Moraceae] Marang, Pedalai, Chempedak

Main Uses: Fruit.

Growth Rate: Fast.

Mature Height/Spread: Seedling grown trees may reach 70 feet. Grafted varieties often dwarfed and are considerably smaller. Smaller also in marginal climates.

Flowering/Pollination: Cauliflorous. Hand pollination ensures a higher quality/quantity of fruits.

Tolerance: Not tolerant of salt. Has some drought tolerance and can thrive in semi-dry climates. Prefers regular watering.

Soil/Nutrition: Deep, fertile soils. Superior drainage is very important and quite beneficial to the health of this species. Also appreciates compost and mulching.

Light: Light shade to full sun. Younger trees require protection from daylong sun exposure, which may burn/dry them. Generally prefers a sunny spot with a little shade.

Wind: Requires shelter from cold and strong winds.

Temperature: Tree grows fast in warm, humid environments. Tree is not hardy below freezing until well established, near or at fruiting age. Once established, tree can withstand short drops to around 30F but will begin to freeze gradually at this temperature. Tree fares well in areas where any duration of cold is short lived.

Dangers: None.

Diseases Prone: Mealybugs (mostly on seedlings and container trees).

Bearing Age: Bears while still a young tree, 3-4 years from seedling. Grafted trees may bear a bit sooner, although it may be a good idea to let a grafted tree grow to a good size before allowing it to fruit.

Fruit: Gigantic fruits ripen by turning yellow to brown, with a very pronounced fruity odor, offensive to some. Fruits are sometimes harvested under-ripe, at which point the flesh is crunchier and not as richly flavored. It is also sometimes harvested underripe and used as a vegetable.

History/Origin: Jackfruit are native to India and Malaysia, where the gigantic rainforest trees have been cultivated for thousands of years.

Species Observations: Jackfruit is probably the largest edible fruit produced by any tree. Gigantic fruits are round to oblong, sometimes lumpy and oddly shaped, with pale green skin with many hundred blunt spines. Fruits are cauliflorous, being borne off trunk and large branches. Individual fruit can weigh up to 80 pounds, though are typically smaller. Each fruit contains many large kernel segments, separated into compartments by latex-like filaments called "rags." The sweet, aromatic kernels are usually eaten fresh. Most larger segments contain a single seed. The fruit segments or "pegs" can be white, yellow or orange, which are the most common colors; however, there are some red-fleshed jackfruit cultivars. Cultivars used for canning tend to have crunchy, rather than soft kernels.

Dwarf types: "Cheena," "Cochin," "Golden Nugget" "Ziman Pink" "Singapore"
Large Fruit Types: "Black Gold," "Mia 1," "Mia 2" "NS1" "Lemon Crunch"
Red Flesh Types: "Borneo Red" "Ziman Pink"

Seedling trees are often a better choice for trial growing in marginal climates, however smaller fruited cultivars such as "gold nugget" display more cold tolerance than the species' standard. There are some fruiting trees successfully grown outdoors as far north as Tampa, FL in protected locations. Always shelter from northern winds in marginal climates. Plant many seedlings and let nature weed out the weakest ones. The bigger the tree, the greater the cold-tolerance, so pushing the tree to grow quickly is of particular benefit, and always include micronutirents when aiming for cold tolerance. Pay special attention to maintaining the soil's potassium content, which will help the plant achieve its maximum tolerance.

Jackfruits are a very practical fruit to grow, and they are rather fast growing, fruiting in only a few years. In tropical climates with adequate moisture and soil, these trees will easily produce an abundance of nutritious food.

Propogation: Easily propagated by fresh seeds, which germinate very rapidly if soaked in water for a day prior to planting. Though it is difficult, young wood can be layered, or cuttings taken. Warmth and humidity are a must for either rooting process. Trees may also be grafted, a practice which is becoming more common as methods are refined for this species.

Container Culture: Jackfruit can be grown in a container for a few years but will eventually need to be planted outside to thrive. Grafted trees are smaller and will last a little longer in a container. Be very careful with the large taproot when transplanting as this species is quite sensitive to root damage.

Medicinal Uses: Unknown.

Nutritional Information: Unknown.

Preparation / Food: Jackfruits are most often eaten fresh or prepared as a dessert. Used also like a vegetable when the pegs are under-ripe.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.skyfieldtropical.com/encyclopedia/jackfruit/

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 1:29PM
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jeffhagen(10B)

mango_kush's post has some interesting info:
Container Culture: Jackfruit can be grown in a container for a few years but will eventually need to be planted outside to thrive. Grafted trees are smaller and will last a little longer in a container.

In my experience grafting seems to lower the vigor of jackfruit trees.

Jeff

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 2:44PM
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mullenium

I was at my local tropical nursery and they had a single jackfruit tree avail.. small maybe 4ft in a 5gal pot.. not sure if it was grafted or not..

i choose not to buy it because I figured with the size of the fruit this small 4ft tree would take almost 10 years to fruit...

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 4:38PM
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jeffhagen(10B)

mullenium, my 4 year old jackfruit seedling has fruit on it.

Jeff

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 6:41PM
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mango_kush

    Bookmark   February 17, 2011 at 11:24PM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

Wish I could grow the two varieties we had at the folks' home. Incredibly good. One yellow and one orange. The most interesting part of the experience was watching and listening to 3-4 different people apply their technique of cutting one open.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2011 at 7:22AM
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