Risky Business 2

pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)April 29, 2011

MangoDoc,

Are your plants still in Customs? Mine are still showing US Customs..

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ohiojay(z6 OH)

Like I mentioned...they are in no big hurry to update the tracking. Mine showed that it cleared Customs all the way up to the time it was delivered. Hopefully your plant will arrive today, tomorrow latest. Just be ready for it! Good luck guys. I wish you the best.

p.s. thanks for starting a new thread!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 8:43AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

My concern was that it hasnt shown "Cleared Customs"?? Just Inbound Customs..

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 8:44AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

I hope it isnt Outbound Dumpster!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 10:03AM
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MangoDoc

pj1881

Mine still showing, Inbound Customs???

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 10:31AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Cleared Customs!
"Inbound Out of Customs, April 29, 2011, 6:14 pm"
Time travel??

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 12:16PM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

Did you guys insist that he pack the plants in a two part box??? I hope so. Please let us know. I'm curious to see if he actually does it and what shape the boxes are in when they arrive.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2011 at 8:25PM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Jay,

I did insist on the two part box, he replied he would do his best to accomodate my request.. I did not receive the package today, hopefully tommorow. Does EMS USPS deliver like UPS/FEDEX or are they delivered with daily mail? No matter when they arrive I will post pictures of the packaging.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 12:14AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Package just arrived.. Packed the same way as yours Jay.
One single crushed box, but the tree manages to stay pretty safe?? I have in in Peat, in a 1gal pot, in a large clear plastic bag, watered well, in the shade outside!
Wish me luck.. Pictures soon!!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 1:07PM
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amrkhalido

yes please pictures ,, as i ordered a jackfruit from him and i want to see what to expect and what to prepare ,, i also hope this variety is cold sensitive and not an ultra tropical variety ,,

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 2:12PM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Well here are a couple photos, I thought I took more darn it! The rootball looked identical to the one Jay received, and the USDA placed a letter in the box stating "one time opportunity, and future shipments would be refused" Is that normal?? Also, the strong arc in the trunk is from the way it was packaged, I left it bent the way it was to lessen the stress of transit, correct??

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 4:38PM
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amrkhalido

why cant i see the images !!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 5:36PM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

Make sure it can breathe some. You don't want it too tight.

Wow...they actually included a letter with that statement??! Did they give a reason why it would be refused?

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 8:49PM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Jay, when you say breathe, you mean air right? Like eight half inch holes or more? Heres the USDA document..


See how it says "one time opportunity" at the bottom!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2011 at 9:04PM
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tropicaliste

PJ:
Glad your plants came safe, and the letter of "one-time-opportunity" is so lame, now you need an import permit? They're so "paranoid" about plants and the dang Marmorated Stinkbug that is destroying crops here in the mid-atlantic is the result of unchecked shipping crates... not a authorized exporter of plant material, anyway...glad they didn't destroy them and your plant looks fantastic.

:)

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 12:46AM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

While it does suck...in all fairness...an import permit is most definitely required. We're sort of side stepping around the rules here. PJ...should have ordered more items! Looks like this was your last hurrah.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 8:30AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Somehow I knew you were gonna rub that in Jay!

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 10:07AM
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jsvand5

Looks like you'll just have to get a friend to order for you next time.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 11:21AM
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murahilin(10 fl)

Get the permits. They are extremely easy to get and can possibly save you much trouble and money. Many people on the forum seem to make things much harder on themselves than necessary.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 11:29AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

MangoDoc!

Has your shipment arrived??

    Bookmark   May 1, 2011 at 12:25PM
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MangoDoc

pj1881,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but I'm part of the Shuttle launch Team and we have been very busy. Yes my package did come and it was found to be in the same condition as yours.
I'm having a problem with a shipment I got from Frankies!! One of the mango trees from them had Ants in the root ball
and since then has turned gray/yellow and is not looking good. I took pictures of the tree and sent them to Lynn&Frank along with a read receipt. The E-mail was read but as of yet I have had NO REPLY. I guess they don't care, they got their money and I got a DEAD Tree.

Anyways, I got home at 3:30AM and planted up the tree from Tialand. I have a Question about the graft. The Graft was still taped up! and very low on the root ball. Was I suppose to unwrap the union where the root stock was grafted?

Anyone else had problems with Frankies? Any input would be appreciated.

Joe.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2011 at 8:28AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

MangoDoc, I removed the white wire that bound the union. I didnt remove the blue plastic "tape", I figure the tape will eventually expand and go away. From what I saw, the union was pretty complete, and I hope I didnt weaken the graft!! Also, I spoke with Murahilin, and decided to go with a little more "breatheable" soil mix of 2Peat,1Pearlite,1Turface. All in all the tree doesnt look too bad, its dropped alot of the leaf stems nubs from trimming prior to shipment. I assume that means is going into recovery (as opposed to wilting?). Did you get the same letter from the USDA?

Patrick

    Bookmark   May 2, 2011 at 10:18AM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

I agree...getting the permit is easy easy easy. But ask Warren...Fruitguy...how fun it has been for him trying to get his plants from the inspection station!! And the added costs associated with it!

    Bookmark   May 2, 2011 at 5:34PM
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fruit_guy

Jay is absolutely correct. It's a real pain. Flight arrived at 11am. Customs automatically sent it to a bonded warehouse. Wasn't logged in the warehouse until 1:30pm. Then had to wait in line 45 minutes with all the commercial shippers to pick up my paperwork (fee was somewhere around $40-$50 I think.) Then had to take paperwork and return to Customs to show permits (plant import and quarantine). Then back to warehouse to pick up plants to take to usda for inspection. By now it was too late to have usda inspect it for free (could have paid an inspector overtime rates, with a 4-hour minimum) and would have had to pay about $200, or I could come back the next day during regular hours and have it done for free. So now I have to take another day off of work because I'm not shelling out the $200. Inspection was meticulous! Each plant was inspected thoroughly with a magnifying glass, from the leaves to the roots. Got the plants home and the next day we were hit with a cold front that lead to the death of 75% of the plants. The quarantine plants will have to be held and inspected (2x/yr) for the next two years. Quarantined plants cannot be propagated or distributed. It's a good process in the it reduces the chances of another major pest (citrus canker, citrus greening) being accidentally brought in, but a real hassle for the hobbyist.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2011 at 7:43AM
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MangoDoc

ohiojay,

Did you remove the grafting tape on your mango tree before you planted it? Mine has grafting tape still on the graft union very low on the root stock. Its at surface level.
I did not remove it because It was 3:30 in the morning and I wanted to get the roots in the dirt and the tree bagged up, It looked like it had a rough trip!!

pj1881,

No I didn't have the note in the box about no further shippments allowed. Matter a fact I don't even have any instructions from him about how to plant it once I got it?

Joe.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2011 at 9:38AM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

I don't believe mine had any grafting tape left on. If it is truly grafting tape and not some other type, it shouldn't hurt to leave it on.

Sorry to hear about your plant from Frankies. I have never had any issues with their products and don't recall anyone else having them either. I would call rather than wait for an email. Lynn is a very nice person and I'm sure they will work this out with you. I'd be very surprised if they did not. You did the right thing by taking pics and letting them know right away. Please keep us informed on the results.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2011 at 1:49PM
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amrkhalido

fruit guy ,, what do u mean by quarantine plants !!
do u mean they keep it at their store for 2 years, or they allow u to keep it !!

Amr

    Bookmark   May 3, 2011 at 2:55PM
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fruit_guy

Amr,

There is a U.S. Code of Federal Regulation that restricts the importation of certain species into the United States. (7 USC 319.37-7) http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2011/janqtr/7cfr319.37-7.htm Under this federal regulation, the specified plants can only be legally imported after obtaining (1) a plant import permit and (2) a quarantine permit, which is issued by the State in which one lives. To obtain a quarantine permit, one has to contact that State Department of Agriculture and have them come out to one's property and inspect to see if there is sufficient room to grow the plants and that they not be within 10 feet of another plant of the same species. There is a written quarantine contract with some 15-20 agreements that one has to initial. Once the State approves the quarantine agreement, then the USDA issues the federal quarantine permit. This process can take a couple of months. Then when the plant arrive, the permittee must keep the plants on his/her property and the State Agriculture inspector comes and inspects them every 6 months or so, noting which plants have survived and which have not. In the State of Florida, any dead plants must be reported to the State and after they are confirmed dead, they must be buried on property. During the quarantine period, the plants cannot be propagated or removed from the property. If you read the list, scroll down about 1/2 way to get to the fruit and nuts section. Luckily not every plant is listed, so there are many plants where one simply needs to have a plant import permit and then one is free to do with them what one wishes. Unfortunately, most of the more well-known stuff that we rarefruiters like is on the list.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2011 at 8:32PM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

Warren...please explain your first go at this and how the agent cost you and additional $80. What is his role/responsibilities and why is he necessary?

I don't want to scare or discourage anyone from doing this legally. But you need to understand that you do not simply fill out a permit and all things go smoothly from there. That's not how our government works. These are the barriers Warren has come across and he lives close to the inspection station where his plants come in. Imagine the difficulties of this process where you can't show up in person.

Many of the USDA employees are very nice people and will answer all of your questions and share what they know of the process. The problem is that many of THOSE folks don't even know their own damn rules! I know this first hand and I only ordered freaking seeds! It's frustrating and it does make you angry and defiant. I believe the process in theory is a good one and in place for good reasons. Unfortunately, it is not a friendly process to the hobbyist.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2011 at 7:29AM
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fruit_guy

The agent was basically the warehouse storage. Customs does not (as far as I could tell) store your package when it comes in, rather they send it to a warehouse nearby where they charge to "hold" the package until you arrive to pick it up. The first time I imported plants it cost $80 for that service, this list time it was a little less. That is all they do. (I wish I had that contract!) Also if your shipment is worth over $2000, then you must get a bonded carrier to move the plants from the warehouse to USDA. I have no idea how much that would cost, but most of the people waiting for packages at the warehouse appeared to fall into this category.

I agree with Jay that the USDA people I have encountered have all been extremely nice and very helpful. The Customs people have been hit or miss. Some have been very helpful and others I can only guess either didn't know their job or didn't give a damn. If one were in business and doing this every day, then it is probably a pretty smooth process, but as a hobbyist, it can be a confusing process. Hats off to Jay for beating them at their own game with the seed shipping! That was very impressive!

    Bookmark   May 4, 2011 at 8:07AM
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amrkhalido

thanks fruit guy for illustrating the process to me ,, but i think import permit should only be get if you order more than one tree ,, cause apparently one tree wont hurt the ecosystem of a whole country !!!

    Bookmark   May 4, 2011 at 8:19AM
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fruit_guy

I totally agree that there should be an easier process for hobbyists as opposed to commercial interests.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2011 at 10:49AM
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murahilin(10 fl)

I think the process should be more streamlined but I do not think it should be easier for hobbyists as compared to wholesalers and nursery owners. There is a purpose for the regulations and I am not sure of a better way to get it done. Even one plant can bring a devastating new pest or disease to the US. Look at the mango sudden death syndrome which is thought to have been brought to Pakistan from Brazil and to Oman from the same person who brought it to Pakistan in the first place. I wouldn't want something like that happening in the US.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2011 at 12:47PM
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amrkhalido

murahilin ,, sorry for nt getting for your question ,, but i wanted to ask about it first in the department of agriculture to have credible information ,, but why do you need to know ,, do you live in egypt ,,
and i will get to you about the fruits in egypt ,, but i think its mainly local mango varieties and dates and atemoya ( large variety which is local ,, called abd el razeq )
and jujubes ( trees and bushes ) and doum palm ,, carob ,, citrus ( oranges and tangerines and stuff like that ) egyptian variety of apple ,, peach ,, loquat ,, pomegranate ,,

    Bookmark   May 4, 2011 at 4:47PM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Well, just an update from the ICU in my shade house.. The tree looks identical to the day I potted it up, no leaf loss or discoloration(the Maha Chanok Mango pictured above). Just a couple questions to the pros out there. Once the bag is removed, on like day 15, should I take the tree outside? I was planning on only allowing it a few evening hours of sun for the first week. Also, the central leader branch was bent over for transport and hasnt straightened, should I prop it that way and not attempt to straighten it? And lastly, how will the new roots respond to breeze/wind?

    Bookmark   May 9, 2011 at 8:51PM
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ohiojay(z6 OH)

PJ...I would keep the plant staked until the roots are well established and ready to bust out of that smaller container. I'd hate to hear that a strong wind uprooted your new plant. I also wouldn't sweat the leader branch just yet. We'll probably be pugging them later anyway!!! LOL!

    Bookmark   May 9, 2011 at 10:32PM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

Thanks Jay!

    Bookmark   May 10, 2011 at 6:44AM
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pj1881(10a PBC Fla.)

I moved the Maha Chanok to a three gallon container without disturbing the rootball. Its been outside almost a week now and still has all the leaves it arrived with! I live then minutes from Excalibur Nursery, so I purchased one from them that I will post soon.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2011 at 7:01AM
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