Matina vs Stupice vs Bloody Butcher?

woodcutter2008April 2, 2011

I have not grown Matina nor Bloody Butcher, but from the descriptions, these would all seem to be early, potato-leaved, and have fairly small fruit. I've grown Stupice from two different sources, and it had typically 2-3 oz. fruit from both sources. I guess that I should add "Kotlas" to the group; also similar, but had even smaller fruit than Stupice (for me).

For those of you who have grown the others, how do they compare in terms of *fruit size* and *plant size* to Stupice or each other?


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edweather(Zone 5a/b Central NY)

I grew Matina and Stupice together a few years ago. Matina was very similar. Early, but not quite as early. Taste was very good, just not quite as good. Fruit was a hair bigger and the plant was definitely bigger. My plant got huge and produced tons of tomatoes. IMHO worth growing at least once. Stupice has been my favorite, and I've grown it every year so far. This year I'm growing Black Cherry instead of Stupice.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2011 at 4:51PM
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I have grown Matina and Stupice, and yes, they both are early tomatoes. In fact this year Stupice even beat my cherry tomatoes, and already has two tomatoes on it. Neither one is a taste test winner, but the earliness makes up for it. Of the two, Matina makes larger tomatoes. But once your main crop tomatoes start producing you probably won't eat anymore of these two.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2011 at 4:55PM
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Kotlas and Stupice are very similar. DTM, size and taste about the same. I prefer Kotlas by a touch.

Matina was a good two weeks later than Kotlas and Stupice. I would classify as a mid season if comparing to Kotlas and Stupice. Much better tasting though and slightly larger fruit.

Haven't grown Bloody Butcher.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2011 at 5:23PM
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I grew Stupice and Bloody Butcher last year. The plants and fruit were very similar, BB being slightly darker foliage and fruit. I thought Bloody Butcher had a bit more flavor, and Stupice had more of a traditional tomato taste. Both were early and productive. Bloody Butcher was earlier for me, but I gave them a lot of help.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2011 at 12:11AM
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tomakers(SE MA Zone 5/6 or ?)

Kimberley is my favorite early so far. It is in the same class as these others, but I prefer the taste, slightly. BB is also good, but Kimberley was a little earlier in my garden.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 7:32AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

I've grown Matina and Stupice and Bloody Butcher and Kimberley and of those I prefer Matina, on taste alone which is the only reason I grow tomatoes .

I don't grow that many earlies these days unless I get sent a new one and my absolute favorite is Moravsky Div, sent to me by Andrey in Belarus. Very early and wonderful taste, which most earlies don't have IMO.


    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 8:09AM
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Carolyn is Moravsky early as in Stupice early or a bit later like Matina? Size of fruit? DET or Indet?

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 2:10PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Moravsky Div should be earlier than Stupice or Matina or any of the others mentioned here. Just read Glenn Drowns comments about it...."early PL, golf ball sized fruits ( CJM would say 2-3 oz squarish shaped), Surprisingly, had ripe fruit in about 40 days from 4 inch transplants, remarkable growth rate in 2009." And that from his 2010 catalog b'c I can't find my 2011 one right now.

It's also det and PL.

Carolyn, who doesn't remember when she saw the first ripe fruits with it but certainly very early.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 4:55PM
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Thanx Carolyn. This could be a next winter's indoor in the doning room window candidate...:)

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 8:06PM
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I had not heard of Moravsky Div before. Thanks for the info -- I just ordered it from Victory Seed.

    Bookmark   April 5, 2011 at 8:31AM
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carolync1(z8/9 CA inland)

Moravsky Div sounds great. Tried translating the name on the Bing translator and got something close to "Wonder of Moravia" in Slovak. Interesting that the two seed sources I saw list it as "midseason".

Think I'll try Moravsky Div next year. Maybe with Bulgarian Triumph as a follow-up unless someone has other suggestions (including varieties in a different color). We have a long season here, but smallish tomatoes seem to do better in our hottest weather, as a rule, than the big ones. Many varieties which were developed in cool climates also do well here.

Had TMV problems last year, so this year I'm putting resistant hybrids between the OP types to try to limit plant-to-plant transmission.

Thanks for any suggestions. A different Carolyn

    Bookmark   April 11, 2011 at 9:59AM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

like many gardeners, I look for that early tomato taste ... just to beat the slow/cold nature.

Her are some of the best and well known early matoes :


I had Early Girl last season. This coming season I will plant BLOODY BUTCHER and MATINA instead. As I read the reviews, taste wise they are not exceptional . What makes them appealing is their short DTM and productivity. And that is EXACTLY what I am after. I have already got the seeds.

OK ! lets talk EARLY. What are your favorites ? Any ?

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 7:34AM
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Chuckling here how we are all getting different results (fruit size, taste, etc) with all the similar early PL varieties. Just goes to show you need to test grow your own and not take what someone else tells you as set in concrete. Including myself, of course, ha!

My personal preference is for Stupice, and has been since I started growing it. Kimberly was too small and unproductive, tried it two years. Matina and Kotlas I tried only one year, but honestly don't remember much about them, so they must have been forgettable, maybe they had poor spots in the garden? Moravsky Div was very similar in all ways to Stupice, tried it two years and it might have been slightly smaller in size and fruit. Bloody Butcher was a very sprawling and much taller plant than Stupice for me. Taste might have been a little better, but it was a few weeks later and very productive, which meant that much of it went to waste because it had to compete with midseason and late tomatoes. I only need a very early to tide me over until the better tasting tomatoes start in, and have not found one I like better than Stupice.

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 11:50AM
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I've given up on early tomatoes. I got one or two ripe early and the rest were mid season at best. So, I've shifted to mid and late season and hope for a late frost. Most tomatoes I pick green. However, this was a terrible year: in late, hail twice and Ludmilla's Pink Heart was a winner. Keep in mind we have 18 to 20 hours of sun in the summer.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 12:56PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

I wonder , in zone 3, what is the length of your growing season ( as measured from last spring frost to first fall frost) ?

Here, in NW Washington State, our daylight length gets to about 17 hours by beginning of summer. Even thou we are considered zone 7/8 , yet we have PRACTICALLY short growing season for things like tomatoes. June is moderately warm. July & August are summer like and by mid September it cools off although the LF comes in mid November. So for this reason, I am trying to grow mostly early and mid season matoes.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 3:21PM
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The zone stuff is really not that helpful, since it has traditionally classed areas by how cold they get in the winter, not taking into account summer conditions. My northern Mn zone 3 planting season (and I am in a small cold pocket according to the zone map), starts roughly mid-May to early June for planting warm season crops, and hard freezes can happen any time after mid September, though I have a lakeside micro climate that has been keeping frost away until mid October in recent years. We can get very warm summer temps starting in mid-June, then July to mid-August, normal summer temps range between 75-85F which are perfect for tomatoes. We get some days in the 90's as well. I harvest a few earlies like Stupice in mid-July, and most other varieties start by early August, unless it's a cool summer. We normally have many days of clear, sunny weather unlike the northern coastal climates. Tomatoes keep ripening through mid September, but after that nights cool and the sun angle sinks too low, so quality suffers. Most years I have no trouble getting ripe tomatoes from long season varieties by mid to late August, starting my own seeds in late March, early April. But I do what I can to push the season.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 4:49PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

@ ddsack ... thanks for the explanation. Yeah sure , I know zone numbers often are irrelevant when it come to summer gardening BUT there is a directi corelation between zone number and the length of growing season. So as I can tell, your EFFECTIVE growing season is about 4 months. (June thru September) . Even though my zone number is 7b, effectively we have about 4 to 5 months WARM weather growing season. For cool crops we can do 9 months. So our zone 8 cannot be compared to a zone 8 in Texas.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 8:03PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

I want to add anotheher highly debated early tomato var. It is called "4th of july" and/or "Independence Day". Although the names have the same connotation but apparently they are two different vars.
Aside from the confusion arising from the names, and difference in growth habit (det vs indet) they ale both supposed to be early

Any comments on their earliness , such as taste, production, etc?
Lets talk until the spring arrives: LOL

    Bookmark   December 25, 2013 at 4:52PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

No comments on 4th of July or independents varieties.Scratch !

Now I have completed my EARLY list and already got the seeds. Getting ready to germinate them in couple of weeks. Here they are:

Bloody Butcher
Bush Steak(HY)
Early Treat (HY)

They have nominal DTM ranging from 50 to 70.
I figure if I plant out around April 30th I should have some ripe tomatoes to celebrate The Independence Day. I drink to that.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 5:46AM
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I like having early tomatoes just because they are early!!!! Good taste is big plus though LOL If I am not careful I can do a lot of them and move my entire list on early side.
Anyway, my particular ones I am looking forward are Sugar drop, Jaune Flammee, Little Bells, Taimyr, Yaponskiy Karlic, Moravskiy Div, Belarusian early and Matina. Taimyr and Yaponskiy Karlic are dwarfs, and particularly Taimyr supps to have quite a bit of cold tolerance and be able to regrow even if frost hits it. So I am planting them in containers and hoping for VERY early tomatoes

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 10:41AM
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Hey Ellen!

You forgot Sophie's Choice. It's early and is supposed to be good. I'm growing it in a container, along with Jabonsky and Early Annie (in their own containers).

Here's to some EARLY tomatoes for a change!


    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 10:55AM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

The contender list in EARLY division keeps expanding. It is good to know that there are so many varieties, for different tastes.

Everything in my list is fot the FIRST TIME. Never I have grown them before. But the reason for selecting some of them ( like bloody butcher, Matina , Bush Steak ..) is the good and fairly vast number of recommendations that I have read. Some others in my list ( like Legend, Siletz, Siberia) are supposed to be cold tolerant. Gardening in the PNW, I chose those. Incidently couple of them are bred in Oregon State University, not very far from here , Seattle area. .
Another early that I have read quite few good reviews about, is Prudent Purple. But I have already reached my limit.

I have , of course , MID season varieties to follow as well. some of them are: Chrokee Purple, green Zebra, Marvel Stripe, Costoluto, Motgage Lifter, pineapple , sungold ...

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 2:35PM
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Linda, keep me in mind for seeds if you like those ones! I do not have any of those you listed.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 2:40PM
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Will do! I'll save seeds from those, as well as from Bloody Butcher which I have high hopes for, as far as taste goes.

I'm also growing Pruden's Purple this year, Seysonn. Tania says that it's mid-season, but I've heard great things about it's taste!


    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 3:23PM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Thanks Linda for the recomendation, but I have no more space.

BTW: if you want Bloody Butcher seeds, HD sells them. They also have Matina. Both are Burpee brand.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2014 at 9:24PM
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Hi Seysonn,

Have you checked out any of the on-line seed sellers? They have great pictures and descriptions and it's nice to support them. This winter, I've ordered from Heritage Tomato Seed and Remi's Sample Seed Shop. They send along a free packet of seed which covers the postage and they have lightning-fast shipping! Just a thought for next time (wink).


    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 9:28AM
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I've grown Stupice, Druzba, Matina and Kimberly. Of the four, I've had the best luck with Kimberly.

On my list for earlies to try out is Anahu and Sophie's Choice.

Wow, Moravsky div sounds almost to good to be true!

I've looked on victory seeds and they've got a DTM of 70 days which I'm greatly confused by. Carolyn, you're in zone 5, what kind of DTM were you seeing with MD?


Here is a link that might be useful: VS seed link

This post was edited by smithmal on Tue, Feb 4, 14 at 15:00

    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 2:28PM
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I've grown all three. I used to grow Stupice every year as an early tomato, but it has been replaced by Matina, as the taste is far superior IMO. I keep trying new early varieties every year, and so far Matina is the ONLY one I have eaten where the very first tomato is comparable to my best midseason tomatoes. Jaune Flamme is the next earliest tomato that has given me that quality of flavor.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2014 at 12:15AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Smith, Mike Dunton who owns Victory seeds is in Oregon and I'm in upstate NY and one can't compare DTM's for different areas. Every season the weather is different and no one I know notes DTM's when grownin different years

Actually DTM's are sheer guesstimates anyway. ( smile)

Fact is, I have no idea what the DTM's were for any of the many thousands of varieties I've grown, but the earliest ones stand out, timing-wise just b'c they are early, and Moravsly Div was one of the earliest as I said in a post wayyyyyy before this one.

I don't bother with early varieties anymore.


    Bookmark   February 5, 2014 at 10:06AM
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fcivish(Zone 6 Utah)

Early Girl is a non-starter. Not that early and a very mediocre flavor. Okay to grow if you can't get anything better, but if you start your own seed you can have much better.

Early Wonder produced very small, flat/oblate tomatoes tomatoes, but of decent flavor. Lots of them. It was determinate.

Independence Day was smaller for me than 4th of July and I liked the flavor of 4th of July a bit better.

Bloody Butcher was never that early or that good for me. Grew it several times. Small, round, very average/unexceptional flavor. Decided it was never worth growing again.

Stupice and Kotlas are two winners and are my favorites of this group. I think I slightly prefer Kotlas.

Have to say that I have never grown Matina.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2014 at 10:20PM
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helenh(z6 SW MO)

I used to grow Glacier. After the larger tomatoes started getting ripe, I ate them instead. It continued to pump out lots of small tomatoes all summer. Of the early ones, it worked as well as any for me. Lately I have been growing bigger tomatoes too early and trying to protect a few of them with covers so that I get fairly early tomatoes from mid season ones.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 10:55AM
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I have only grown Stupice, and I can tell you, between two plants, I was able to get around 100 tomatoes. They weren't all ripe because of my climate, but it was amazing regardless! I also didn't have any Tomato cages, which I do this year. I allowed it to support itself from the sprawling it did, and it sprawled.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2014 at 12:14AM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

"""Hi Seysonn,

Have you checked out any of the on-line seed sellers? ..... Remi's Sample Seed Shop. They send along a free packet of seed which covers the postage and they have lightning-fast shipping! Just a thought for next time (wink).

Thanks Linda,
I know SSS well. But I have everything that I can afford to grow. In the EARLY division I have:

EARLY TREAT ( Burpee hyb.)
BUSH STEAK (Burpee hyb?)

Those are among the Top 10 earlies. I bough all the seeds from HD, Lowes, Fred Myers. Otherwise I was going to order from Sample Seeds Shop. I like their selection, descriptions and prices. I will order some different veggies seeds from them later.
The other three EARLIES that I know are MOSCOWICH , KIMBERLY, and STUPICE.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2014 at 4:00AM
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About Stupice and Moravsky Div;Tried to make a post in tom ville about this variety,but kept getting transferred to damn advertisments,think that site needs to be cleaned up by the owners.Anyway,I`m going to grow the Moravsky Div next year based on carolyns advise.After reading all that can be told about this variety ive determined that when stupice was introduced to this country years ago it was really a hybrid at that time,NOT A OP.........And with all the hype,everyone growing it,has come up with slightly different varietys because it was a hybrid and had to be grown out.Just my opinion.Ive been growing tomatoes for a very long time,and there is just too many variables in this variety across the country.....

    Bookmark   October 12, 2014 at 8:20AM
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pappabell, the site you are referring to is privately owned and funded, and does not now, nor has ever had any ads anywhere on the screen. If you are constantly getting redirected, you might want to run a virus check on your computer.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2014 at 12:06AM
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Also incorrect about the history of Stupice. It is not nor was it released as a hybrid. It is one of 4 varieties developed and released at the same time. The variety known as Stupice in the U.S. is one of the 4. It does rather readily hybridize because the pistil is exposed at the end of the flower. This has resulted in quite a few off types that have been passed around. I have Stupice that has been grown out from seed I got from Seeds of Change back in 1988. It fully matches the original variety description that came with Stupice when it was brought over the pond some 30 odd years ago.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2014 at 3:36AM
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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Now that this thread is dusted off and brought up , I like to make few comment.

I have been enthusiastically in the game of planting EARLY varieties in 2014. I grew all three, MATINA, STUPICE, BLOODY BUTCHER among few other. Now that the season has come and gone , I can voice an opinion on them:

MATINA has been the winner of the 3 in my garden. (a) taste , (b)productivity and (c) size. A WINNER

STUPICE did very poorly. Not a consistent fruiting habit. Most fruits were like cherry tomatoes. Even those small tomatoes took relatively long to ripen. A LOOSER.

BLOODY BUTCHER was the first to produce ripe tomato but it fruited so sparingly. Although not as bad as Stupice, but not as good as Matina. So I wont grow it again.

So my next year's earlies will be: Matina and Siletz. YMMV

BTW: I also grew Early Treat, Silvery Fir Tree. I will NOT grow them again.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2014 at 6:25AM
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Hey seysonn, I am surprised about BB. I had recommended to you as an early variety. I didn't grow it this year but last year it was a work horse. I had tons of tomatoes from it. Oh well that's gardening. I was debating about Stupice for 2015 but I think I'm scratching off my list. Lots of varying reports about it and there's so many others out there.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2014 at 8:57PM
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