can a determinate and indeterminate tomato plant crossbreed?

AltitoApril 9, 2013

any experiences?

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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Yes, they can.

Cross pollination has nothing to do with plant habit, rather it's pollen from one variety that lands on the stigma of the female parent of another variety.

I've had several fruits that were X pollinated and it's easy to know the maternal parent b'c thats where the fruit is from, but it's not so easy to ID the pollen parent since it could be either indet or det and the F1 hybrid formed may not correspond at all to either parent with an F1 fruit.

Carolyn

    Bookmark   April 9, 2013 at 10:12PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Happens all the time to varying degrees regardless of the type or variety. It's of no concern unless you save seeds.

Dave

    Bookmark   April 9, 2013 at 10:29PM
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Altito

I am interested in saving seeds, and I do want to hybridize. what are some traits of determinate X indeterminate breeds? a big bushy vine perhaps?

    Bookmark   April 9, 2013 at 11:05PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

That would depend on the variety parentage or even the "grandparents" as it could easily revert to either or none.

As Carolyn said above, "it's not so easy to ID the pollen parent since it could be either indet or det and the F1 hybrid formed may not correspond at all to either parent".

So you could see taller vine (not necessarily bushier), longer inter-node lengths perhaps, fewer terminal buds possibly, etc. or none of the above.

Why not explore the Hybridizing forum here as that is their focus.

Dave

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 9:55AM
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Altito

I did look on the hybridizing forum to find nothing, but you answered it nicely, thanks

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 11:45AM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

I did look on the hybridizing forum to find nothing, but you answered it nicely, thanks

&&&&&

At this point I'm a bit confused as to what kind of information you're after.

First, you want to deliberately cross two varieties, regardless of plant habit, to form an F1 hyhbrid. Fine, but then what? You must be doing that to create a new variety and saved seeds from those hybrid F1 fruits, are called the F2 seeds and in another thread here I went through what one needs to do to get an OP (open pollinated) selection from that, which can take up to 5-6 years growing out each season.

I can give you agreat link on how to do crosses if that would help.

And are you also looking for methods used to save seeds, not having anything to do, really, with any crosses?

There are several methods and there are threads here about that.. I prefer fermentation to other methods,

So please help unconfuse me. ( smile)

Carolyn

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 1:03PM
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mule

yes.

The result is a plant which is generally considered indeterminate.

But there is an exception here that seems to be a matter of choice of parents used to make a cross.

The gene for the determinate trait is considered recessive but it does not always behave in a typical Mendelian fashion (ie it is not completely recessive). What is sometimes observed when a det x indet cross is made is a habit and flower production somewhere in between the two parents.

In other situations hybrid vigor kicks in, the resulting cross is indeterminate and it's habit/size becomes even more than the largest parent.

Again, which way it turns out seems to be based on choice of parent lines.

All the above only considers the hybrid or F1 generation. As one gets into other generations they will segregate out between det and indet. The intermediate types should eventually disappear.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 2:24PM
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Altito

carolyn, the biggest question in my mind is what happens to the plants vining habbit? will det/indet give favor to the bush traits or will the plants be more prone to vining? essentially, what genes will prosper over the other? also, i'm alright on that link, thank you. i also ferment my tomato seeds with great success; but if you'd like, you can still post it for others to see in the future. it's relevant to the thread.

I like your answer mule..

"As one gets into other generations they will segregate out between det and indet. The intermediate types should eventually disappear."

this is very interesting. why do you think (or know) that the vining traits will disappear?

    Bookmark   April 13, 2013 at 12:57PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

why do you think (or know) that the vining traits will disappear?

Mule didn't say the indeterminate vining traits would disappear. He said the intermediate (the mixed middle) ones will disappear. The pure lines will sort out.into determinate or indeterminate.

The reason - the basic laws of Mandelian Genetics. Dominant genes will dominate and recessive genes will recede. They are recessive to the point where they are no longer dominated at which point they become the dominant gene.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Mendelian Genetics

    Bookmark   April 13, 2013 at 2:23PM
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