Is global warming real?

stevation(z5a Utah)January 4, 2007

I was noticing some Eastern members on the perennial forum discussing how warm this winter has been, and someone from West Virginia said they haven't had any snow for three years. They started talking about global warming, which made me remember that I heard on KCPW radio that a SaveOurSnow symposium is being held next week in Park City. Some of you may be interested in it. Here's a quote about it from


Tuesday January 9th at 6:00 PM at the Eccles Center

The results of a $60,000.00 climate modeling study done by scientists from the University of Colorado at Boulder will be released. Using the latest available global warming data and satellite images this study looks at what our snow pack will be in 2030, 2060 and at the end of the century.

Free, but seating is limited to space available

Also on the same program will be Kathy Mattea, singer/songwriter, giving a Global Warming Presentation based on Al Gores hit movie "An Inconvenient Truth."

There will be a panel discussion with the Director of Climate Change for Aspen talking about what you can do to cut down on green house gases.

Major funding provided by Park City Mountain Resort/Powder Corp

Additional funding provided by KPCW, Deer Valley and the Canyons


So, do you think global warming is real? I know a lot of Utahns don't believe it, mostly because we're a conservative bunch who don't seem to trust environmentalists. But I think it's definitely happening, especially in Alaska and northern Canada.

How do you feel about this topic? Do you think a warmer Utah would be great, since we'll be able to grow different plants and have a longer season? Are you worried about water supply if we start getting more rain than snow in the mountains? How about skiing and tourism? I saw one estimate a few years ago saying Utah could become a lot more rainy, like Oregon, if warming continues. That might not be so bad -- I've always wanted to live in a greener place! But this is so unpredictable, and it could have all kinds of negative consequences.

It will be interesting to see the results of the Boulder study released next week at the symposium.

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Steve I actually do believe it is warming based on my few years here and 15 years in Idaho Falls. Hence my zone designation 7a???. I planted a fig tree last year. I know they can grow in 6 but no sweat in zone 7. I protected it this winter while the roots get established but next winter it is on its own.

There has been quite a bit of controversy over the official zone map. The one at Johnnys Seeds is a little different than the USDA map. As I recall (and I am old so my memory is bad) USDA contracted with the Horticultural Society a few years ago to develop a new map. They did and it was published on their web page. USDA did not approve the work because it was a "draft" document so it was pulled. Nothing has been published since.

It is also why I have embraced Xeriscaping. I believe we will face decreasing water in the future and we need to address our usage as soon as possible. I just laid donw RTF in the front yard and if that works the entire yard will get it. I have also reduced the grass portion of the yard by 50%. Kind of like a Santa Fe yard with a little grass in the living area behind the fence and desert landscaping in the front. Mounds, rocks, and perennials that require no water after they are established. Also rain barrels under all my gutters for watering trees and shrubs.

Just opinion. Jim

    Bookmark   January 5, 2007 at 10:27AM
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stevation(z5a Utah)


Good job on the xeriscaping. Sounds nice. Can you post any photos?

I'm trying to be more waterwise, too, but I still have bluegrass. I did prove to my neighbors, however, that you can keep a lawn beautiful with water only twice a week last summer, even when it got to 100 degrees. You can see a few photos on a posting I made at our local community forum at the link below.

About the zones, I know some websites have a little zip code zone finder, and some say we're zone 5, others say 6. I go with 6, but I have had some plants that have survived and aren't supposed to in this zone. Perhaps I'll try some more experimenting with marginal plants, too.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2007 at 11:57AM
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songbirdmommy(UT 5)

The earth has always gone through cycles of warmer and cold weather.
Back in the 1970's they thought that we were headed for another ice age.
El Nino's effect on us here in Utah in 1982-84 can be well remembered as the Great SL overflowed and nearly covered Saltaire Palace.
I remember the streets of Provo being sandbagged and heavy flooding nearly everywhere I turned.
We had a snowstorm the week of 4th of July in 1982 and I remember it being pretty "cold" for the summer.

Studies done at Mauna Loa Obersevatory on the Big Island of Hawaii over the past 50 years shows that every year the amount of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere has risen steadily every summer from 310ppm(parts per million) to almost 400ppm.
The amount of methane(CH4), Nitrous Oxide (N2O) are also greenhouse gases, (naturally produce from the breakdown of organic mater and also bacteria)
are also increasing.
Ozone (O3), which ironically protects us from the Sun's UV light,in the upper atmoshere, is also a pollutant that is rising. Here in the Troposhere(the first couple of miles of atmoshere where we all live) O3 damages plants and irrites eyes & throats....
O3 is produced when the emissions from cars CO, NO2(Nitrogen Oxide)& hydrocarbons are mixed with sunlight.

If you ask me if Global warming is happening, facts indicate that it is, and all man made.
The earth tries to balance itself out continually.
As the man made effects continue, Mother Nature will continue to "lash out" with harser, weirder weather, in an attempt to get back into a state of balance.

With our dependance upon fossil fuels, I can only imagine it getting ALOT worse before it gets better, even if we do figure out and mass produce modes of transportation that will not pollute the atmosphere anymore than it already has, it will take decades if not longer to find the balance.

Until then, we as gardeners need to enjoy what we have now, plant our cherry trees, plan for a good future, but prepare also for droughts, pestilence(and there is a known history here in UT for crickets and grasshopper invasions that have darken the skies) and god forbid plagues(I do worry about my chickens and the Avian flu), 1918 killed ALOT of Utahans as well as millions around the world.... NO ONE went anywhere... even here in UT all LDS church meetings were cancelled.
If the avain flu does happen, or any plague.... be grateful we have our gardens and can rely on what we have in our gardens to sustain us with fresh veggies and fruits.....
I think I need a cow or two also, my kids go through SOOOO much milk! :-)

I do not want to get religion involved here, but the bible very vividly tells about the plagues and famines and stuff I just mentioned. That aside, from a scientist(which I am) point of view, it will happen.
It is NOT a matter of "IF" it will happen, it is a matter of when.
I think we have already hit the point of no return scientifically speaking, now we just need to prepare for the fallout.
The more we get back to basics and become a more "permaculture" people, the better off we will be.

I would love to have 100 acres and live off the land completely.... who in the world could afford 100 acres of sustainable land near enough to civilization to make a living?
If you worked 40 hours a week to make a living, when would you have time to work the land, shear the sheep, spin the yarn,make all your own clothes & bedding, milk the cows and goats, make the cheese, harvest the wheat, grind the wheat, make the bread, churn the butter, make the soap, shoe the horses, butcher the cattle, tan the hide, make nice leather shoes & completely self sufficiant?
What a dilemma!
This could be an interesting topic to talk about!

    Bookmark   January 5, 2007 at 12:38PM
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dsidwell(UT 5)

An overwhelming majority of scientists believe it is true. Meta studies of global warming studies show that it is true.

However, the warm weather we've been having of late is probably NOT due to global warming, but to other patterns and climate cycles. Global warming is an overall gradual warming of the Earth's atmosphere by only a few degrees--over many, many years. In other words, we won't REALLY know if global warming even exists until 100 years from now when we look at climate and atmospheric data.

The warning to us is that if it indeed DOES exist, that few degrees will be catastrophic in many ways--and it will be too late to stop it.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2007 at 1:47PM
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stevation(z5a Utah)

As further evidence of climate change, look at the discussion about zone changes in this forum. The Arbor Day Foundation is promoting a new zone map that shows significant warming across America and very little cooling compared to 1990. I might even be in zone 7 now! The link is below:

    Bookmark   January 24, 2007 at 12:55PM
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"Is global warming real?"


Climate change is real, but there's no proof that it's caused by human activity.

Honestly, I would fear the return of a little ice age more than any warming scenario. The exact opposite of what the current fear mongers are trying to sell us!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 2:20AM
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snibb(Salt Lake City)

Is global warming real?

Not in the way it's been sold to us. It's a weather cycle that's been going on forever. It's not caused by man. If it was then what about this polar vortex. If it was man made why couldn't someone do something to stop it? And what about all the global warming scientists that went up to Alaska in a big ship to document all the glaciers that were supposedly gone or melted? They had to admit there was absolutely no proof of global warming as there was so much more ice than they could ever believe. The ship and crew had to be rescued because of all the ice that they were stuck in.

Follow the money people. The hoax of man made global warming was exposed several years ago by an email trail that began with an activist professor at Yale I believe.

Global warming-with the temperatures that we've seen this winter? Come on-let's be logical.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2014 at 11:14AM
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