Let's leave the church out of this. Please.

woco(z6 UT)March 19, 2007

I started a topic on why Utah is so different. I have noticed that in this topic that the LDS church has been brought up in replies to this topic and the church has been brought up in a couple of other topics. I am LDS but I would like to see the church left out of our garden forum. It does not matter if you are a member or not, we are all welcome here. The church does not affect how I garden or what I grow. There is to much bad stuff going on in the world today all in the name of religion. I really enjoy having a Utah forum and seeing how many people garden in the state and enjoy doing what I do. Keep sharing your ideas and asking questions.


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I just did a search on LDS and found it in three threads.

One didn't seem to actually have it anywhere in it.

One was the thread you started on "Why is Utah so Different?" (I'll get back to that).

The third was a passing reference (by somebody who has said she is LDS) to snow causing closings.

Back to your "Why is Utah so different? post. I had to go back to it to see if I was one of those who had offended you, because the first thing that comes to mind when somebody asks that question is "the LDS church." Or, if you're LDS, "The Church." Or, if you haven't lived in Utah long enough, "the Mormons." If you've lived in Utah long enough, you know that the third answer isn't considered politically correct.

It was a month and a half after you posted that before anybody brought up the LDS church, and when it was brought up, it was by a member of the LDS church. The next reply also mentioned the LDS influence. A little more than 2 months later, somebody else mentioned the LDS church.

Like you, I'm surprised that 3 of 14 responses to the question "Why is Utah so different?" mentioned the influence of the LDS church. The difference is that you seem surprised it could be so many, while I'm surprised it could be so few.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2007 at 12:33AM
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stevation(z5a Utah)

By the way, if I ever post and say Utah is "driving me crazy" check the date -- if it's January or early February, just ignore me! :-)

I always get that way in the middle of winter. It's really just the weather, but then I start to blame it on other things! But my wife knows me better; this January, I was invited to Sacramento (our former home town) for a job interview, and my wife convinced me to just wait it out, because she KNEW I'd be feeling much more positive about Utah in March. How wise she is!

Besides, we're having a baby in less than three weeks. Who wants to move at a time like that? At age 43, I'm a little old for babies, but my friends tell me 40 is the new 30, so hey, bring it on! But I digress...

I'll agree that the person posting about corporal punishment and its relation to the LDS church was really getting off track for a gardening forum, don't you think?

    Bookmark   March 20, 2007 at 12:52AM
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Stevation--congrats in advance.

If you don't like Utah in winter you must not be a skier.

I just reread parts of the last post on that thread. I ignored most of it the first time and again this time. It had nothing to do with gardening, what makes Utah unique, or even the LDS church. It was, however an odd collection of newspaper articles.

Bill, If your objection was to that particular post, I'll echo it. It had no bearing on much of anything. But you have to admit that when you ask what makes Utah unique, there's no way to ignore the LDS church.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2007 at 1:13AM
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stevation(z5a Utah)

Thanks bp! Actually, I do ski, and just to prove that I could do what teenagers do, I took up snowboarding for three winters before this (sounds like midlife crisis, doesn't it?). But this winter, since we had to save lots of $$ for our co-pay on the baby, we haven't skied or boarded (well, obviously, my wife wasn't going to anyway!).

I just went into winter-rejection mode this year. Didn't actually work very well, if you're wondering! :-D
I suppose it's too negative of an attitude; I'll enjoy next winter, I promise!

Anyway, I'll agree that you can't ignore the LDS church when talking about what makes Utah unique. Some if it isn't actually the church, but it's often a social culture that has developed. For example, when Bill complained in his original thread that people don't get involved enough, maybe it's because they're so involved in church activities (I'm one of 'em -- I know!) and when you add the regular kid activities like school things and sports, or extended family activities, pretty soon a family just doesn't have time, attention, or desire to get involved in many other things.

I'm a "California Mormon" so sometimes I have a different perspective than folks raised here. Sometimes I think things in Utah are funny that others around me don't find amusing. But I've tried to get past the judgmental phase that some of us out-of-staters go through (like my crack about Utah drivers!).

But ANYWAY, back to gardening -- the gardening benefits from living here are FANTASTIC! This may be partly because I couldn't afford a good sized yard in California, but I absolutely love gardening here. I love my fruit trees, my raspberry and strawberry patches, my little corn and tomato gardens, and my 40+ trees, 200+ shrubs and perhaps 1000+ flowers. I also really like spring and summer here. Summer in Sacramento was oppressively hot and many flowers couldn't withstand the July/August heat. Utah is a little easier on them. So, now that I'm out of the January blues, I think Utah's a fabulous place to live!


    Bookmark   March 20, 2007 at 1:04PM
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woco(z6 UT)

The reason that I started this posting was because of the reply in Why is Utah so different that talked about spanking kids in school. I just felt that all of that was uncalled for in a garden forum. I really enjoy sharing gardening knowledge and politics does not have a place here.


    Bookmark   March 21, 2007 at 9:51AM
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songbirdmommy(UT 5)

I think we should leave politics and punishments(unless it directly relates to gardening or impact on something relevant to gardening)out of this forum.

I can see the LDS church, with it's Provient Living plan coming up occasionally, which I was surprised only came up 3 times, and I was one of the post.

I was sharing my views, that I am amazed that Utahans do not garden as much as they could(anyone, just not LDS), especially when about 1/2 the population(those who are LDS) have been counseled to keep a garden and plant fruit trees, and yet, few actually do.
Sure we have challenges in our soil being Alkiline, water shortages, japanese beetles in Orem, but there are still tons of stuff that we can grow, Utah would be a lead producer if we took advantage of the land we have in our own backyards!
That is all I was trying to say.
I think my post was relevant to gardening in Utah and why our state is different.

I read that post that caused this post and I tried to find some relevance to gardening...

dang, when I want to punish my kids, I send them out to weed or pick stones out of the new bed, or lava rocks left over from previous owners...
My kids now behave much better and now I pay them for doing the former punishment.
Now that would be relevant to punishments and gardening, but not necessarily to "What makes Utah Different".

Still trying to figure out what that guys post was all about.
I hope that my post, although sometimes long, have meaning to this forum.
Please tell me if I am ever off-base!
Off to garden now!
Have a Great Gardening day!

    Bookmark   March 21, 2007 at 2:11PM
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beth4(z5 - Utah)

Woco -- As a member of a minority religion in this state, I very much appreciate the intent of your post. Let's keep this forum focused on gardening in Utah, with all of the challenges, pleasures and successes that endeavor involves.

Let's leave allusions to politics, religion, social issues, education etc. out of our Gardening Forum. There are other places on the Internet where people who are so inclined can talk about these things.

Good gardening everyone! Spring is officially here!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2007 at 12:04PM
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