NorCal Baileys Marvel-SWEET!..

stanofhNovember 8, 2011

I left the last five on the tree..and they sweetened! It was GOOD!-lol..ok,I wasn't filled,but it was fine quality!..shoot,I wish store bought were as good. NOW,I can say to fellow bay areans-Baileys Marvel? I RECOMMEND-lol.

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bsbullie

Wow, what a difference growing in Cali versus SFla. The BM that I have seen/had in SFla or more rounded than that with more vivid skin color and a little darker flesh. Did they have any tartness to them or just sweet ? The BMs here have a good balance of sweet and tart with a citrusy overtone.

Rob

    Bookmark   November 8, 2011 at 10:40PM
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squam256

Have to say....that doesn't look like Bailey's Marvel.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2011 at 11:27PM
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mangodog(palm springs 9B)

Kudo's Stan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mangodawg

    Bookmark   November 8, 2011 at 11:50PM
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desimango(San Jose 9)

Congrats...I'm also in NorCal and have began my quest for mangos. Nice to see more of us doing this...it's a great feeling.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2011 at 11:51PM
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hmhausman(FL 10B)

Stan:

I'm glad they were good, but I have to agree, and I think I have already said in another thread on this subject, that these look nothing like Bailey's Marvel here in Florida. I wonder whether they are self pollinated or whether there may have been another polleen source in the area. What are your thoughts on the pollen source? Any other mangoes in bloom in the area around the same time? Remind us, where did you obtain this tree from? And you are confident that the fruiting portion of the tree is growing from above the graft line? Link to PIN shows what we see here in Florida out of Bailey's Marvel.

Harry

Here is a link that might be useful: Bailey's Marvel

    Bookmark   November 9, 2011 at 8:35AM
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stanofh

I was shocked-I expected dry sour..and it was fine.BSB,I think it did have a tad tart..but it added to the sweet like carbonation does.
Its a Baileys..the vertical growth isn't like the Manila's or even like Tammy's Haden and Glenn's-also bay area grown.
I think guys,that its a combo of pot grown,and a summer of only 73-80f for highs and lows of 55-60f. Plus-it was labeled Baileys Marvel,when I bought it at a nursery.
Next year,Its going in ground..another big worry..but I've had a Manila now do well in ground for two years close by.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2011 at 12:29PM
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hmhausman(FL 10B)

Ahhhhhh....the nursery label says its a Bailey's.....OK, that settles it.

Harry

    Bookmark   November 9, 2011 at 1:36PM
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stanofh

When its in ground-and looking like a true tree,and the fruits are still this small THEN I will say-not a Baileys. But for now I'm pretty sure it is. Look,the only reason the nursery would choose a B.M. is because we are a heat challenged climate. It's not impossible that it was mislabeled..anything could have happened I give you that.
And Harry-just no way another Mango was close. You could count on one hand the people who had a mango flower in the bay area last year! ..or just about. I'm in NorCal where they aren't even supposed to live let alone fruit.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2011 at 3:02PM
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stanofh

Now that you see the pics..I'm all ears as to what you think it might be.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2011 at 3:24PM
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hmhausman(FL 10B)

Stan:

No need for other trees in the area, the mango can pollinate itself and have a fruit that carries a seed that will be very different than the parent. Now, does that sexual reproduction, even though a selfing, possibly create a different looking fruit from the exterior view (rather than just a genetically new seeed), that's the million dollar question. I highly doubt that being pot grown, humidity variations or temperature variations could account for the difference in the fruit's appearance. That's why I asked if the fruiting portion of the tree is definitely coming from a point that is above the graft on the tree. I have heard that in California, they graft much higher on the rootstock than we do, and it would be quite possible to have the fruiting portion of the tree actually being part of the seedling rootstock. Can you clearly discern the graft line on the tree? The fact that it doesn't look like Glenn, Haden or Manila, doesn't really prove anything. Of course, the main thing is that the fruit was good, you enjoyed it and you were persistant and skilled enough to get it to fruit in your locale, a feat that should be applauded for sure. But, I wouldn't put any money on it being Bailey's Marvel if I were you.....your risk of losing that bet is very high IMHO. Fruit size might be different, exterior color could be very different, but changing the actual shape of the fruit this drastically as well as the flesh color.....that's a horse of an entirely different color.

Harry

    Bookmark   November 9, 2011 at 3:37PM
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jfernandez(10B)

Way to go Stan!

Once you put that baby on the ground you are going to have nice size Baileys. All you need is a little protection from winter like Tammy.

JF

    Bookmark   November 9, 2011 at 6:20PM
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stanofh

Thanks J-I'm thinking the same thing..in ground it should be near Florida like in size as the root system builds.
Harry-I wonder if the redder flesh near the stem wouldnt be Baileys like,if the fruit were larger? I know they are much smaller then they should be. But-they sure tasted good!

    Bookmark   November 10, 2011 at 3:03PM
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stanofh

Thanks Mango dog!-

    Bookmark   November 10, 2011 at 3:05PM
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bsbullie

Its not the size but the actual shape and flesh color that are off that is disturding. They should be more round and have a darker colored flesh. As Harry stated, I don't believe growing them in a pot would cause those types of changes.

Rob

    Bookmark   November 10, 2011 at 4:09PM
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squam256

The only feature this mango appears to share with BM is the slightly pointed nak/beak. Otherwise, the fruit is too enlongated and the flesh color is too light. Flavor can be influenced by growing conditions but fruit shape really is pretty universal. That's not to say you don't get a mis-shapen fruit here and there....all trees will do this, but there is typically some uniformity to the shape. Not sure if flesh color varies based on where its grown....I know harvest date can impact it some.

Do you have any more pictures of the fruits? It could be that this one wasn't completely representative of the rest of the fruit on the tree.

    Bookmark   November 10, 2011 at 5:12PM
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stanofh

Here's a pic of the BELOW GRAFT fruit. Its growing from the TRUNK. And the graft mark didnt show in the photo-but I've posted it clearly before-If you doubt check the archives.
I claim-first ever TWO flavor Mango tree!
Full size

    Bookmark   November 13, 2011 at 4:41PM
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Sinaloense_NorCal(9a)

Could you give us an update on your mango tree please. I'm starting my journey with the mangoes here in California. Thanks a lot

    Bookmark   November 23, 2013 at 3:00PM
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stanofh

Its been up..and down. Jan of 2012 we had a sharp frost- 32f. Before fruiting,it took that kind of cold well. But I think it was weakened going into the winter after I picked a few ripe mangoes off it in late summer. It survived- but the graft died.
That was the second time that happened to me. In 2007 a Manila was cut down- the winter after fruiting,in a very cold winter..(Its still alive)
My very best advice? A norcal Mango needs to be planted in rich soils, FULL sun,FULL sun in winter -right down to the soils for maximum heating. And always cover when night temps are predicted to go below 34f. 2013 was like 2007,yet my mango had no damage. I covered it with only old t shirts!
Now, Baileys is on rootstock, but looks like its on its way, 3' with five branches and is looking fine.
And some minor advice...I like those premium box fertilizers to use on it.They really thrive on that. And don't allow ANY groundcover in the plants rootzone. They just compete and worse- lower the soil temps. They are not tree's you want to plant in the middle of a lawn. Not in the bay area.
And be patient. Even the best start will take time to look like a even dwarf tree. If they ever get in the 10-12' range here? That's a great success.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2013 at 10:31PM
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stanofh

As of November 24th.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2013 at 3:04PM
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stanofh

And more advice: NEVER let them go dry in ground. I've seen a big difference in not letting them go dry. That little 3' tree has stems like a real tree now. Not those wiry branches it had the first year.
Can you tell its my spoiled tree?

    Bookmark   November 29, 2013 at 4:58PM
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sf_rhino

Hey Stan,
Off topic but my sister may be buying a place in West Oakland and I'm trying to convince her to put in some non-typical fruit/nut trees (which is difficult b/c she is a native plant person). What do you think does well out there? Relatively fast growing would probably be a plus. Avocado, cherimoya, banana varieties?

ryan

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 10:42AM
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stanofh

All of those. That's a zone 10b. The banana's will be evergreen,I cant say though they will have sweet fruit. But- they just might. Cherimoya are fast. Avocado's are slow to start..then very fast.
I wouldn't doubt at all a Mango would do fine in Oakland. Plant in a spot that reflects heat like a wall..and I'm sure Manila or any that do well in soucal ( as opposed to Florida) will do well in Oakland..just slower.
Another that's easy? Macadamia. They do great all over the bay area. And exotic looking trees too.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 12:21PM
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stanofh

Varietys? Booth Cherimoya is said to be best for the bay area. But Ryan,I grew a Cherimoya from seed and it tasted sweet to me.
Avocado's Hass is best. Fuerte is good.
Meyer Lemon is a great. People love them here. Dwarf or semi dwarf. Even the dwarf can produce very well in ground.
Macadamia usually comes in one variety. So not much to debate. Dragon fruit I see for sale..but I cant recall the named variety. My neighbor has a huge plant. Fruit on it right now.

West Oakland has a soucal vibe. The air in summer is kind of humid, mild. I see huge old Ficus elastica that must be from the 1940's here and there. Just what you would expect from a frost and freeze free climate. Even this year, 37f is the low predicted in an arctic freeze. A kind climate.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 3:13PM
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sf_rhino

Hmm maybe I'll push her for the cherimoya and dragon fruit. I need to see the space to get a good idea of her sun/shade/wind/soil situation. Maybe a mango.

She was even talking about building a sort of below ground level green house type thing that some Native Americans used to use like a heat sink/cold frame...

thanks

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 7:22PM
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stanofh

On the greenhouse? Sunken in might be overkill. You just don't need that much protection in Oakland. Maybe if she decides to heat it to warm in winter,then that will save on the heating bill. But for passive solar warming...a GH in the southwest exposure should be fine. Maybe one solid wall in back to help hold in warm.
And Banana's? One good one I heard is Dwarf Cavendish,only hear good things about it. That's DWARF...NOT SUPER dwarf that you see for sale at supermarkets that's another more tender,more heat needy variety. Tried it,and it did nothing.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 2:02PM
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stanofh

And Jay Fernandez in 2011 was right..planting the Mango out has made a world of difference. Yes,I covered, and yes I put last night a 74watt incandescent bulb under the cover..and it looks in summer like form.

    Bookmark   December 5, 2013 at 2:59PM
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sf_rhino

Yeah, I'm not sure about her greenhouse plan. I'm not sure if she is planning on doing it or was just talking about it from an engineering perspective.

I won't know for another week or so if she actually got the house. Hopefully that will give me enough time to get her some plant as a present for Christmas.

Have you ever seen any cherimoyas for sale around here? I have a couple of seedlings but they are not too big so wouldn't make the nicest presents.

Do you know if your neighbor's dragon fruit has red flesh?

    Bookmark   December 5, 2013 at 10:01PM
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sf_rhino

Also, I know it was several years ago but what nursery sold the Baileys Marvel? With the weather like this I bet the semi-tropical selection around here is on the low side...

    Bookmark   December 6, 2013 at 10:35AM
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stanofh

Hi Ryan, I got the Baileys from Regan's- they also have Manila...and they in summer sell Cherimoya- Booth,various fruiting Banana's like Raj or Goldfiger or Ice cream. They also have had Curry tree- Murya. Sweet Loquats. Many Avocados,Citrus..
I've never see the neighbors Dragons cut open..but they are pink on the outside.
If your lucky,Home Depot might have a edible banana,Avocado's and rarely Manila Mango.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 3:28PM
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mangodog(palm springs 9B)

MangoDog here.....so did you say the two trees in your last photo have sprung from rootstock? So, are you planning to graft onto it?

A small FYI - a mango developer/inventor down here has allegedly come up with a mango (called Antonio) that survives down to like 26 degrees. I've met the gentleman - Tim Thompson...and here's his website if they will allow me to post it here. Quite a fascinating story:

http://www.socalplantbreeders.com/#!ventura-county-star-august-04-2013/cd5b

Click on Mango Varieties at the top and you'll see the list
Good luck, amigo.....

MangoDog (Gary)

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 6:22PM
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stanofh

Hey mangodog. Yes,its rootstock now. In 2011 and 2012,It was constantly sending suckers up below the graft. I would cut them off..but they seemed so vigorous. And so were the Baileys...just only vertical growth. It had reached 7' not including the pot. YET, it did grow a single Mango fruit below the graft ON THE TRUNK. It didn't taste any different from the fruit that grew up high normally. And it didn't look any different.
After fruiting in 2011,in a pot, I left it uncovered on a single 32f night in January 2012..and it was devastated. All growth shriveled and died. In spring 2012,new sprouts on a trunk about 2' tall grew...slowly. I then planted it in ground were it grew well that summer. Again,we had a cold January 2013..BUT, with only a T shirt over it..NO damage.
All summer of 2013 it grew, and really added bulk,stems went from those wiry potted plant type to real tree like stems. Its now about 40 inches tall..about 3' wide. And with covering and the light bulb during this years freeze, has no damage on it..still flushing leaves are greening.
Now,when it will fruit again I dont know. Since 2007,I've gotten Manila,Baileys,and Rootstock Mango to fruit in the bay area and yes,they were sweet. Unlike Papaya's or Guava's...all the work pays off in sweet fruit here. And a nice looking small tree.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 9:03PM
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mangodog(palm springs 9B)

interesting, Stan....the mango below the graft line tasted the same as those above.....could it be that it's a seedling with that one part of the trunk that only looks like a graft? Anyway, that's good news all around....and the way you're handling the winters now seems like you know what to expect and how to handle it..

Good luck, amigo of the north........MDawg

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 2:34PM
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