new: ne1 interested in a true fall rr

aquadragonfly(7b NC)August 12, 2012

If you would be interested in participating in a true Fall Robin Round please post here.

Rule are as follows:

A True Fall Robin Round will give you an opportunity to receive and exchange seeds with other members. You will receive the seed box, take seeds you'd like/want, add your own seeds to the box, mail the box to the next member on the list. There will be a limit of 30 participants.

Cost - We will be using the LARGE FLAT RATE BOX through the US Postal Service which costs $15.45 + a DC# $0.85 = $16.30 IF and ONLY IF we have less then 30 participants and if everyone agrees to use the MEDIUM FLAT RATE BOX the cost will be $11.35 + DC# $0.85 =#12.20 This will be the main cost to you, if you need to purchase seeds to participate then you will have that expense as well.

Shipping schedule - Shipping schedule will be created once we receive all participant's info. The box will leave North Carolina and travel the most direct route to the next participant and will continue the most direct route until it returns back to ME in NC.

Guidelines:

Please note that seeds are for your own personal use and not to be sold. This Round Robin is for seeds only no bulbs.

IF you sign up please follow the guidelines provided, make sure you are truly committed to the cost as well.

No common seeds please, they are too readily available and it is expensive to mail a box it would be too disappointing to find marigolds or other common easily found seeds in the box. (Usually the $ 0.20 packs at the big box stores.)

IF you are unsure what is a common easily obtainable seeds PLEASE ask on the thread for the Round Robin, participates will be glad to help you.

1. In order to participate you will need to send me a message with your REAL name, Gardenweb name, address, phone number and the email addy of the email address you use.

Only your name, address and email will be given on the list for the box, the phone number is for me in case there is an issue with the movement of the box.

2. Please include at least 12 large seeds in each seed pack.

(Large seed include: watermelon, cantaloupe, moon flower vine...)

Small seeds should have more. At least 30. (Small seed include: Salvia, Columbine, Lettuce...)

If the seeds are really small, such as dust type make sure there are enough in there to get some plants.

Please do not include more then 5 packs of the same type.

Please include a proper packet, such as coin envies or plastic or glassine. No seed packs that might burst EXAMPLE: Made from recycled teabags or thin notebook paper.

You MAY use homemade packs but please use heavy grade paper since these will be traveling a while the packs must be sturdy! Make sure they are sealed well too.

3. When you receive the box, take what you want/need for for the next planting season. You must add the same amount of seeds you took from the box (nothing older than 2009). Make sure the seeds are properly marked with the name of the seeds and YEAR and if it is commercial or OP from your Garden

Example: If you remove 15 packs of seeds you will need to replenish with 15 packs of seeds.

Information to include on the pack:

Echinacea White Swan 2012 OP

OR if it is a commercial pack:

Echinacea White Swan 2012 com.

This let's everyone know where the seeds came from.

NOTE: Seeds up to the year 2009 may be included if they have been stored correctly, if you think they are not viable please do not include them.

ALSO make sure older seeds will be viable because some seeds will only live for a year, examples of this are TREE SEEDS, ONIONS, CHIVES, ALLIUMS. There are others and if you are not sure please check online or ASK on the thread before you include them I am sure someone will have an answer for you.

4. Mail the box to the next person on the list within 3 days of receiving the box. You must then update the Round Robin thread with this information: the date you received and date you mailed the box with the DC# and the NEXT person in line to receive the box.

***NOTE: BEFORE YOU MAIL TO THE NEXT PERSON ON THE LIST PLEASE CONTACT THEM VIA THE EMAIL ADDRESS THEY PROVIDED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE STILL PARTICIPATING as circumstances do change as the box moves along.

5. IF the box gets tattered please replace the whole box with a new one, so please pick one up if you do not have one already so you will have one available once you receive the box this way you will not have to wait to get a box before you are ready to send it back out on it's trip.

Make sure you tape the box closed really, really, really well.

6. Sign ups will be held until Sept. 15 I will make the list of where it is going and mail out on Monday Sept. 24 this gives me a little more then a week to figure out the best route for the box to travel IF there are not that many people who sign up then it might mail out sooner BUT I want to make sure I have the best travel route for the box to move on.

If we use the large flat rate box I will include a few goodies and you may include some too. BUT I would like a good seed assortment when I receive the box back not full of stuff please.

  
PLEASE POST HERE, then send me your information requested in guideline No. 1....I think that is it with the guidelines and information.

THIS is meant to be fun, PLEASE participate in the RR thread . Trading should be fun, exciting and interesting!!! Don't post you want to join then never post anything again. BE ACTIVE IN THE THREAD, HAVE SOME FUN, TELL us some things you took from the box whether it was a seed you couldn't live without or one you have been looking for.
  
Post pics of flowers growing in you yard now or of the flowers you have collected seeds from.
  
LET'S HAVE FUN, I might even post some games to keep the thread interesting and alive!

  
:) Aqua
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poisondartfrog

Just a thought here-if you choose the most direct route based on participants you can probably use an all purpose Priority Mail box based on weight instead and get off less expensively than using flat rate. If the participant is able to print postage at home Regional Rate boxes will cut postage rates dramatically, probably by half.
Alana

    Bookmark   August 12, 2012 at 4:36PM
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sguanzon(z9 AZ)

I'm interested! I'll send you my info.

Sue G

    Bookmark   August 12, 2012 at 10:54PM
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dan_the_mailman

Excellent point Alana!

Aqua, how many different types of seeds will you be starting the box off with? I'm interested, but I'd like to know how many possible choices I'll have first. I know the types of seed will change as it goes, but it would be nice to know about how many packs of seeds I'll find when it gets to me.

Dan

    Bookmark   August 13, 2012 at 12:18PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Dan, I am not sure at the moment I haven't taken inventory. I have some older seeds I plan on putting in from 2009, BUT still viable because I started some this year. These are flower seeds.
I am hoping I have more seeds from stuff I am growing now, hopefully all will be ready by the time I mail out, but I am currently growing a good bit of veggies.
I have 2012 bean seeds I will be including if anyone is interested in those.
There will be a good mix I am starting with an IF my local store still has some commercial packs I will be picking up some plus what I already have now.
I have no idea what I have available, wasn't expecting anyone to ask what would be included especially not this early.

Thanks Alana, I was thinking about some of what would be going in the box and the weight and it truly all depends on WHO signs up which way the route will go. I know I have seen a few times someone in like Colorado joined one and no one else in that area did and it ended up being shipped back to like TX to go back on a route.
I guess I will really have to wait an see if any folks sign up before I know for sure what will be happening with the RR and I figured it would be easier to list the PR boxes because those are general and no surprise costs ways to ship.
I was also thinking what if the last person is in CA then they have to ship back to me? It would cost them more either way so I was thinking of balance I guess too.

Ok so far it looks like we possibly have:

  1. ME
  2. sguanzon-Sue

If you don't mind when you post here could you tell me if you are interested in:
Flowers or Vegetables or both and if you might be interested in beans seeds.

Thanks!!!
:) Aqua

    Bookmark   August 13, 2012 at 2:06PM
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dan_the_mailman

Put me down as a maybe. I'll keep watching to see how many people join, and if there gets to be a good number I'll sign up too. It would also be good to have an idea of what's going to be in the box, as far as seeds go. One year I signed up for a round robin and when I got the box, half the seeds were in one hug bag of joe pye weed. That was disappointing, to say the least.

As for your veggies vs. flowers question, I'd prefer flowers. I prefer to buy my vegetable plants at the local nursery every spring.

Have a good night!
Dan

    Bookmark   August 13, 2012 at 6:07PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Ok, so this is not getting much attention...thought more folks would be interested in doing it.

I will go ahead an update with:

Ok so far it looks like we possibly have:

  1. ME
  2. sguanzon-Sue

MAYBE:
dan_the_mailman-Dan

:/ Aqua

    Bookmark   August 14, 2012 at 7:03PM
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katybear826(6a)

Hi. I would be interested in participating. It sounds like fun! I'll send you my info.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2012 at 8:24PM
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MoonFire(8b)

I'm interested definitely...i'd like to wait and see how many sign up before i commit tho as i'm a bit limited on trade seeds at the moment and i'd like to know how many seeds to purchase and possibly try to get some seeds to add that are on people's want lists that are participating if possible and if it doesn't run me broke...i do have some very nice seeds to add but i'd like to have more in case this list of participants is larger lol

    Bookmark   August 14, 2012 at 10:25PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

I would like to join ,however I am only interested in vegetable seed,mostly pole beans,butter/lima beans,okra,tomatos and cow peas
I can throw in 2012 seeds as shown in my have list

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 11:35AM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

hementia8 I can cover you on a good bit of what you are looking for, you have a very impressive list already. I like what you have listed on your haves. I am big on veggies and want to grow a lot of beans next year so I personally would love to get some of what you have. :)

I am currently growing Red Burgundy Okra an have Crimson Spineless seed I would throw in a few packs of those.

Dianne, I was hoping to be able to do that too, I think it is nice to put in things I know people want.

UPDATE:
I have some ideas floating around in my head about the Robin Round, when I gather some info and go through my seeds to see what I have I will decide exactly what I want to do with this.

I know I want to do this:
I am going to allow participants to list five (5) of their most wanted seeds IF others have any of them they can specifically mark the pack for that person OR if you have more then one for that person then you may put them together and place a piece of paper (you know like a little envy) around them an place the persons name on them. Mark on the outside what you put in if you have it sealed so others may see what was added and not send duplicates. (I know duplicates maybe wanted of some things but space may not allow for this in a Round Robin!)
REMEMBER however if the person was behind YOU on the route then you can not add to the box for them. (Might figure out a way to do this not sure yet how exactly)

SO now as it stands we are here:
Ok so far it looks like we possibly have:

  1. ME (everything)
  2. sguanzon-Sue (??)
  3. katybear826- Katy (??)
  4. MoonFire-Dianne (??)
  5. hementia8- (veggies)

MAYBE:
dan_the_mailman-Dan

Ok then, I think we are looking pretty good so far. I am not as disappointed now lol. I was afraid no one want to play :)

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 12:29PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

Most robins I have been on go around at least twice to give everyone a chance at something different
The participants have a choice if weather they want a another go at it

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 6:11PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

Most robins I have been on go around at least twice to give everyone a chance at something different
The participants have a choice if weather they want a another go at it

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 6:12PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

Most robins I have been on go around at least twice to give everyone a chance at something different
The participants have a choice if weather they want a another go at it

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 6:22PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

Most robins I have been on go around at least twice to give everyone a chance at something different
The participants have a choice if weather they want a another go at it

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 6:23PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

Sorry for the repeat
I have no idea how that happened

    Bookmark   August 15, 2012 at 7:53PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

hementia8, I don't know how it happens either, it did it to me the other day on another post too. It looked like I double posted but I didn't.

Yes, I have seen sometimes they make two rounds BUT apparently this one isn't going to make it to one. There doesn't seem to be enough interest in it.

:( sad Aqua

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 6:41PM
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hementia8(8 MS)

I would not be interested if it only went one round as no 2 on list would only get what you provided
No one would get anything from those following them on the list

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 9:58AM
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gmom2-6boys

I may be interested but I'm waiting to see the results. Can a person be on the list for more than one delivery? Can we list a shipping date for the trade? As I will out of town for a month and would need it after returning home in October.
gmom

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 10:09AM
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MoonFire(8b)

Maybe the last person on the list could send it back to the next to last and it could go around in reverse back to the start...the only thing is that would make the 1st one where it originated and the next one on the list wait quite a bit longer for their real turn maybe...just a suggestion but don't know if it would work or not...I was also thinking it would depend on what # on the list someone is on to whether they would want to join or not...I'd suggest it go around twice or either go around once and then start in reverse to be equal or fair to everyone maybe...I also wouldn't want to be the 1st one or 2nd on the list...but we do need to show appreciation for aqua for being willing to sponsor this...so maybe we could each include a pack of seeds just for aqua or pay aqua's bit of the postage between us all like all add a few stamps for when it gets back to aqua...or put in a small gift like a special bookmark or something...it's just a suggestion yet again...

i have just bought some new veggie seeds...i'm interested in knowing if this is really gonna be a go and how many are gonna be included to know if i need to put back some of these new seeds for this or not...

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 2:42PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

gmom, I could make sure you are home before it comes to your house other wise it would sit there until you got home....

hementia8 I would like to see it go 2 rounds. Those who don't want to go the second time could just say they are signing up for one round only. I was also thinking about doing a split too before you mentioned it in the email :)
I just wanted to see who might be signing up first.

I want to know IF we do not make it to 30 participants would everyone want to go for the PR bubble envy? With the DC# it would be $6.00 to mail. Please make sure BEFORE we start you have one available to use because some PO do not have these available you have to order them, my PO is one that doesn't keep them.
IF this is where we end up you will need to order one of those from the usps.com I am sure DAN can get you the number to order the correct one.
Also IF we wind up using the bubbly then there will only be seeds included no extras.

IF we do a box I will be allowing everyone to include a list of their most wanted seeds, I will explain later how I would want this to work. BUT only if the large box is used, we will have room for it then.

UPDATE:
SO now as it stands we are here:
Ok so far it looks like we possibly have:

  1. ME (everything)
  2. sguanzon-Sue (??)
  3. katybear826- Katy (??)
  4. MoonFire-Dianne (??)
  5. hementia8- (veggies)

MAYBE:
dan_the_mailman-Dan
gmom2-6boys

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 2:44PM
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MoonFire(8b)

Please send me a link to the kind of bubbly we'd need ...I have bubbly's but I want to make sure I get the right one and don't get the wrong one...or can someone give the exact name label that will be on the bubbly and the size of the bubbly for me so I can look that one up...our post office is limited on their supplies to as it's a small po...but the next town over 20'something miles away may have them so i may be able to pick one up next time i'm there...thanks ya'll :)

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 3:07PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Moonfire, we were posting at the same time LOL.
I would say put some back because if no one else sign-up for this maybe you, hementia8, me and anyone else who wants veggies could do a bubbly envy round with veggies only.
I have already been looking at some veggies I want to order too so maybe between us we would have some nice seeds for next year!
I for one am all up for doing that IF we don't get this True Fall RR going, what do ya'll say? lol.

I am just mentioning this just in case the True Fall RR doesn't get going, BUT I think it looks pretty good at the moment.

Speaking of veggies, how is everyone's gardening doing that planted one? I am disappointed with mine. My tomatoes have not done too well, my eggplants just aren't happy and not that big either.
I have watermelons with vines going everywhere but do not seem to be producing too many watermelons! I have been out there looking and some don't seem to be doing a thing! The sugar babies are covered with melons but they are taking forever to get ripe.
At any rate, my garden has been disappointing this year. Has yours?

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 3:16PM
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MoonFire(8b)

Our onions didn't make :(
Our tomatoes made like 2 or 3 little tomatoes each (we only planted 2 plants)
Our squash was making but my daughter that tried to help weedeat cut them down and they didn't come back
Our peppers made a few little peppers but nothing to brag about
Our watermelon sprouted and started to vining and then just stopped and are at a standstill forever it seems
Our cucumbers did great but they are dying back now and have quit producing

So this year was disappointing to me also...can't wait to get the winter veggies going and see if they do any better...this is our 1st year of really actually trying to do something with our yard/garden as we're in a new house and trying to get it landscaped but it seems like a never ending job lol

The cukes...I've heard people say that theirs make a 2nd go around or produce twice...so should I cut my cukes down and see if they come back up again or should i just dig them up and be done with them for the year?...

My tomatoes we left out there after they quit and 1 of the tomato plants now has 3 little baby green tomatoes on it so it produced twice but i'm not sure if they will ripen or rot yet...

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 3:32PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Ok, Moonfire we did it again LOL, here is the link below for the padded envy, that is what it is called at the postal service.

Priority Mail Padded Flat Rate Envelope is the whole correct name of the envy we would need to get they come in packs of 5, 10 and 15! They are nice if you are going to do a flat rate for something and for a seed swap they are awesome!

Ok, I am going to go figure out what I want for supper now. I am hungery...oh no wonder I forgot to eat lunch!
I was too busy putting up corn for the freezer and I made some tomato sauce and a quart of salsa. I only got about a pint of tomato sauce but hey every little bit helps right?
Alrighty then, supper I say!

I will check back later to see if we have anymore responses I need to read.
:) Aqua

Here is a link that might be useful: Priority Mail Padded Flat Rate Envelope

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 3:43PM
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dan_the_mailman

If your local post office doesn't have the correct boxes or envelopes you need for shipping, you can go to usps.com and get your materials shipped to you for free. You can also print your postage at home, as long as you have a credit card. If you've never gone to usps.com, go there and check it out. There are a lot of services and products there.

Aqua, after looking at my fall schedule, I'm going to bow out of this swap. But, before I go, may I give you another idea for it? If there are people who'd only like the box/envie to come to them once, and some who'd like to receive it twice, have them say so and use it when you are planning your delivery list. You could put all the people who want it twice at the beginning, then send to the people who only want it once, then send it once again around to the people who'd like it twice. That way, you'd get the most coverage of your list in an economical way. If you have everyone using priority shipping, the package will only take 2-3 days between stops, whether they are in the same city, or across the nation.

Everyone have fun!
Dan

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 5:23PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Thought I would check in to see if we have anymore lookers...
or participates.

Dan, I am sorry you decided not to join us. I do appreciate what you did for this though! I have looked at the seeds and there is enough to add to the box so I guess you will be there in spirit huh?

UPDATE:
SO now as it stands we are here:
Ok so far it looks like we possibly have:
No.-participant-interested in

  1. ME (everything)
  2. sguanzon-Sue (??)
  3. katybear826- Katy (??)
  4. MoonFire-Dianne (??)
  5. hementia8- (veggies)
  6. gmom2-6boys-gmom (maybe???)

Hope everyone had a good weekend, I have been looking at seeds I would like to order.

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   August 19, 2012 at 1:00PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Checking in again....come on everyone where are you???

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 4:20PM
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tansy_mi_zn5(zone 5)

I haven't been in a RR in forever. Sign me up please! Hope this one flies. Interested in a flower RR.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2012 at 12:35PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Thanks Tansy, me too but it looks pretty sad at the moment.

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   August 29, 2012 at 12:11AM
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debbya_gw(z4IL)

Are you still going to do this? If so, I would be interested in joining. I previously used to start lots of seed round robins/seasonal round robins for GW.
I have my seeds ready to go, I've been collecting them for a few months.

Deb

    Bookmark   August 30, 2012 at 7:46PM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

Hey Deb, I am hoping to still get this going. It sure doesn't look like it is going to fly unless we get more people to join.
I would like to get at least 20 if not the full 30 and I think it will be stretching it to get 20 at this point.

I had hoped this would have more interest then it has received.

Aqua

    Bookmark   August 30, 2012 at 11:46PM
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txgardeningmama(7/8)

Add me hun!! I have plenty of heirloom veggy seeds and other stuff I can add to the box lol Sent you and email!
Kim

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 9:31AM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

UPDATE

SO now as it stands we are here:
Ok so far it looks like we possibly have:
No.-participant-interested in

  1. ME (everything)
  2. sguanzon-Sue (??)
  3. katybear826- Katy (??)
  4. MoonFire-Dianne (??)
  5. hementia8- (veggies)
  6. gmom2-6boys-gmom (maybe???)
  7. debbya- Deb (??)
  8. txgardeningmama- Kim (??)

This is starting to look a lot better.

Come on I know there are more folks out there watching this, at least let me know you are WATCHING you don't have to commit yet you still have 14 more days to do so.

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 11:35AM
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tansy_mi_zn5(zone 5)

Aqua...just a thought. I was thinking about how long it would take for a round robin with 30 people. (it would be a long time) With me, Deb & Kim that's nine people. I vote to let her fly & have a smaller robin. 30 people is alot of people & chances are the robin would get "lost". That is why most people don't do true robins anymore. Also getting the robin where you get a big box of marigold seeds like Dan had stated earlier seems to be an issue.

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 11:36AM
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tansy_mi_zn5(zone 5)

I just noticed I am not on the new updated list :(

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 11:44AM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

OOPS TANSY I SO SORRY!!!!

UPDATE
SO now as it stands we are here:
Ok so far it looks like we possibly have:
No.-participant-interested in

  1. ME (everything)
  2. sguanzon-Sue (??)
  3. katybear826- Katy (??)
  4. MoonFire-Dianne (??)
  5. hementia8- (veggies)
  6. gmom2-6boys-gmom maybe(???)
  7. tansy_mi_zn5-Tansy (??)
  8. debbya- Deb (??)
  9. txgardeningmama- Kim (??)

This is starting to look a lot better.

I am hoping this RR will not have the issues others have had, I posted NO COMMON seeds in the guidelines but I know there are some who are not sure what's common and what isn't which is also why I posted if you are not sure then please ask.

At the moment I see a few long time members of GW I know they are looking for uncommon items. I also am sure they will have wonderful seeds to put add.

PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE GUIDELINES POSTED FOR THIS SWAP REMEMBER IF YOU ARE UNSURE ABOUT SOMETHING PLEASE ASK. THANKS EVERYONE! If everyone adheres to these this will be a fantastic swap and all should come out with some nice seeds for next season.

PLEASE READ: I had a request to do the veggies separate IF we have a small group I will do this. For this reason I need to know if you are interested in only flowers, veggies, or both. IF we do it into 2 packages we will be using the bubbly envies from the USPS mentioned above in a previous post, PLEASE use the link on that post to order them.

Not all my veggies are coming in like they were supposed to so I will be missing some of the ones I wanted to put in. So disappointed with this!

Thanks everyone I have to go back and check my email I have to make sure everyone has sent me their information.

:) Aqua

    Bookmark   September 1, 2012 at 12:32PM
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txgardeningmama(7/8)

hey aqua
I am interested in anything lol got plenty of veggy seeds and will buy a bunch of flower seeds to add I hope you send the box around twice, you know you could combine the rr make one side of the box for veggys and the other side for flowers that way people could trade out of either side just my 2 cents lol sometimes I don't think I want to grow something till I see it. Our garden did really well compared to last year I still am putting up tomato's and okra and corn and of course peanuts lol I have so many peanuts!! How are the peanuts growing that I sent you? We are in the middle of planting our fall garden now but kinda leery been seeing strange signs that makes me think we will have an early and hard winter like the persimmons and riping and falling on the ground that has never happened before the first frost and acorns are doing the same I dont know about where anyone else lives but this is very strange here in north east texas. Guess I will be picking persimmons today before the cows eat them all lol Hope everyone has a great day!!

    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 8:21AM
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txgardeningmama(7/8)

bump

    Bookmark   September 5, 2012 at 6:44AM
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gardenofeden777(8a central Louisiana)

Hi Aqua! Just saw this today. Just wanted you to know I did read your post. But I am already committed to FOTESS and BLOOMING FRIENDS this month. But you said you wanted to know who was reading so thought that I would drop a line.

Y'all have fun!!!

Rena'

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 2:20AM
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aquadragonfly(7b NC)

CANCELLED

Thank all of you who were interested but I don't think there is enough interest at this time to continue.

HAPPY GARDENING,
Aqua

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 2:55PM
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MoonFire(8b)

Alrighty Aqua...it's ok...was a good thought while it lasted :)

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 7:20PM
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