What's this disease?

2ajsmamaJune 15, 2014

Dr. Carolyn and Cheeseman's that I still have in cell packs (I'm so far behind with planting, but hardening off has been tough with rainy weather). Looks bacterial?

I'm hoping a spray with Organicide insecticidal soap (fungicide) tonight and planting tomorrow will be OK? Hose them off in the morning before planting (wouldn't you know, now we get a couple of sunny days in a row)?

Though I still have others in the cell packs (!) these are the only 2 that seem to be affected - got wet the beginning of the week, pulled them into garage to dry out Thurs and Friday, just saw this yesterday so separated them from the others I put back outside.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Bacterial Spot or Speck - take your pick. I'd vote for Speck because of the diameter of the spots and since they don't look scabby in the pics.

Different bacterial causes but treatment is the same - strip off affected foliage, spray with fungicides, get them dry, into the sun, and cross fingers.


    Bookmark   June 15, 2014 at 5:35PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Dave, anti-fungals are no good for bacterial infections, so yes, taking off affected leaves, but also consider a Copper spray or Mancozeb.

Bacterial foliage infections progress much more quickly than do funga lones.and since the foliage infections are spread via air and embedded in rain drops,I'd keep a close look on your othe rseedlings as well/

I don't know of any organic preps for bacterial infections that are organic AND effective. Why would something labelled an insectiside be effective again bacterial infections? And why take off any spray you put on the next AM since it takes time for almost any spray to be effective.

So Dr. Carolyn is in a 6=pack? Trust me,I wouldnt fit. LOL


    Bookmark   June 15, 2014 at 6:11PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Dave, anti-fungals are no good for bacterial infections, so yes, taking off affected leaves, but also consider a Copper spray or Mancozeb.

I didn't stipulate which fungicide but I think copper sprays and Mancozeb are fungicides. :)

But yeah, no cure, just a stall tactic.


    Bookmark   June 15, 2014 at 6:45PM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

Yikes! Mancozeb is one of the very hazardous products best not used by the average person. It's a cholinesterol inhibitor, for cryin ' out loud! Yes, it's a fungicide. Copper is used for both fungal and bacterial diseases.

I've used Serenade as a foliar spray for my vegetables and have been satisfied. It is labeled for use to prevent and suppress fungal and bacterial disorders, including the two mentioned above. It's accepted for use by certified organic gardeners. I forget to recommend it and should do so more often.

It should be used in conjunction with a good IPM program, and not as a last resort.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2014 at 7:47PM
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I figured it was bacterial but all I have is Organicide. Actually, maybe have a little copper powder left over, I'll have to look.

Tomorrow all the cell packs are going to get a good inspection, but the individual pots and the peppers look good, the Camp Joy that was in the flat with these 2 looked OK, so did the Kootenai and Best Boy I just took some out to pot up for other people. Don't have much left in the cell packs, figure these got wet and stayed wet, maybe in darker corner of garage for 2 days didn't dry out. Or maybe these 2 more susceptible to bacterial spot/speck?

Dr. Carolyn is just older lower foliage, Cheeseman's looks more affected but will strip all but the top when I plant and hope more air flow and sun will let new growth come in OK. These aren't systemic diseases, are they?

Or is it better to destroy all these seedlings and not plant them (was planning on 2ft apart)? I've had this before, just never on plants this young but this was an extremely wet week.

The reason I was suggesting rinsing the Organicide off in the AM was b/c I didn't want to scald the plants in the sun. These were the last tomatoes hardening off, they really haven't seen all-day sun yet b/c we haven't had any, and I didn't want the soap making them more likely to burn.

This post was edited by ajsmama on Sun, Jun 15, 14 at 20:48

    Bookmark   June 15, 2014 at 8:43PM
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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

I'm having trouble following the question here but the product Organocide is listed as a "fungicide" only for powdery mildew, downy mildew, black spot on roses none of which share any of the causative agents with the tomato diseases. So it has no benefit for tomatoes as a fungicide.

And if you sprayed the plants tonight why would you have to wash it off in the AM and get them all wet again? You can't scald plants in the sun with a product that has already dried so why wet it again?.

At any rate tossing them or not is your choice. Just because a plant leaves isn't showing symptoms yet doesn't mean it hasn't already been infected but it doesn't mean it has either. Remove the affected foliage as we said, put them outside where they can get some air and leave them there. If they make it, plant them..

But all this in and out and in and out I sure don't understand. It doesn't hurt plants to get wet outside. They get wet all the time. But then instead of just leaving them outside to dry off or at least have air circulating, putting them in a dark corner of a garage for 2 days after they got wet is just asking for trouble by creating the ideal conditions for the bacteria.

You know sometimes we create our own problems by over-complicating what really is a very simple process.


    Bookmark   June 15, 2014 at 10:11PM
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carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

rhizo and anyone one else interested, please see the link at the bottom as to copper sprays and Mancozeb for treating bacterial foliage infections.

The link is from the U of Ca , their IPM suggstions, which should also mean something to those familiar with IPM guidelines.

I mentioned both above since both were also recommended in my Tomato pathology monograph published by Seminis from I think their then Petoseed division which has perhaps the best lab for Dxing tomato diseases and their pictures are also shown at TAMU ( Tx), and other highly regarded disease sites.

Personally I've never used either copper or Mancozeb for bacterial foliage infections b/c where I used to garden they were rare indeed, almost all being fungal foliage diseases and which I did spray for and if I didn't do it myself the farmer using our fields did it for me when he or one of his workers had time,


Here is a link that might be useful: UC IPM site

    Bookmark   June 15, 2014 at 11:03PM
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I just remembered that Organicide was listed as a fungicide and recommended to me by CAES when they thought Ester Hess had powdery mildew (which when they cultured it, it didn't). Thought I had to rinse it off b/c sun would scald it. Please don't beat me over the head for mentioning it.

And I did leave the plants outside all month after the discussion on Sue's thread about the in and out, when you said only take them in (to unconditioned space, never the house back under lights) when there was severe weather. So they got wet last weekend/beginning of the week and had not dried out by the time I finally took them in on Thurs b/c the weather was getting worse. They were already thoroughly soaked and I was afraid the roots would rot, though I didn't notice leaves were wet it was certainly damp and overcast on Wed. I did pot some things up (Gem State and others going into containers anyway) on Thursday just to get them into dry mix. I do have light in the garage, but no fans. I just made the comment that the particular flat must not have been in the best spot (I really don't remember where it was - I was pretty sure I put anything in cell packs up on a table, and the larger potted plants down on the floor) since it's the only 1 to have problems so far. Sat was the first dry day - Thurs was drizzle, but Friday was a downpour, and I put them all back out where they would get some sun. Doing the best I can.

Thank you Carolyn, I did read that last night, I was also reading that this can spread very quickly through a field and so was wondering if I should cut my losses (I really did want to try Dr. Carolyn) and throw these plants out rather than risk the ones already planted in the row.

Ironically, I was trying to get these last plants (started April 6 and set out June 2) some sun exposure before they were planted, we literally did not see the sun from June 3 - June 13 (except for the 7th when DD had friends over and I couldn't put the plants out in the middle of the back yard for sun - they weren't ready for afternoon sun by then anyway) and it rained 6 of those days.

I will remove the affected foliage (as much as I can, some of them don't have any unaffected leaflets), keep these cell packs isolated and see how they are the end of the week. I'll be sure to cover them tomorrow night since it's going to rain Tuesday night and Wed, I'm sure that won't help. What I read was that temperatures under 60 at night may help retard the spread, we have had cool nights but maybe that flat was in a warmer area of the garage ;-) Unfortunately the next few nights are going to be slightly over 60, but then we're dropping back to our normal 50's so all I can do it cross my fingers.

I am going to try the copper spray if I have any left - I have some powder in the cabinet, I think it's copper from 2012 b/c I'm pretty sure the Bt I bought last year was in liquid form, that would be the only powder.

This post was edited...

    Bookmark   June 16, 2014 at 6:20AM
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I had a few in pots that needed some foliage stripped, but other than the Cheeseman's, only 1 cell pack of Gardener's Delight looked bad. I've already planted all I want of those, so I can throw the extras away.

But of the ones that have been planted, almost all of the full-sized tomatoes in the east bed (where I had green beans) showed signs of disease, as did 1 SuperSweet 100 in the west bed (that was planted in tomatoes last year). I also had quite a bit of foliage I had to remove from the Brandywines and Mark Twains that were the first to be planted in the new bed in the (uncovered) tunnel, so this must be wind/rain borne, not seed or soil borne. Everything I planted Saturday looks good.

I'm assuming that copper is not a good thing to spray on a bright sunny day (I do have a few ounces left, will have to weigh it), but will spray everything this evening. Then hope it doesn't spread with the rain/overcast days predicted for the end of the week.

Thanks for the help.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2014 at 11:35AM
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