Help with Viburnum's please

bluebirdbabe(z5 MI)July 7, 2005

I bought 3 blue muffin viburnum's, 1 winterthur and I have room for 2 more. I would like something that only grows 5-6' and has berries the birds like for the front yard.

In the back yard I have 6 cranberry and 5 nannyberry, 4 service berry, and 5 elderberry so I don't need any more of those. Where I want to put the bushes the area gets 2 hours of sun in the morning, some shade during mid morning/afternoon and sun again from about 3 until sunset. I am in zone 5.

Any ideas are appreciated. I am not familiar with all the names of the viburnum's.

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sarahbn(z6Pa.)

Maybe you should plant another viburnum nudum to pollinate your winterthur I think you're supposed to have two for berries anyway. A viburnum nudum that flowers around the same time as the winterthur. Sarah

    Bookmark   July 7, 2005 at 11:09AM
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vonyon

Most of them get a bit bigger than that I think--unless you go with a hybrid type that is meant to be small. I think elderberry stays around that size, but it sounds like you already have those. How about some kind of shrub dogwood? I think you better check the size though.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2005 at 6:38PM
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bluebirdbabe(z5 MI)

I ended up getting 2 spice and 2 more winterthur. The spice are bigger than I wanted, but I moved some things around so they have lots of room to grow. Thank you for your input.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2005 at 8:54PM
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kevin_5(z5)

I would have gotten Viburnum dentatum 'Little Joe', a heavy fruiting, early blooming, compact variety that would have cross pollinated your Blue Muffins. Also, as Sarah suggested, another V. nudum to cross pollinate that Winterthur. As it stands now, unless there are some related Viburnums in neighbor's yards or growing wild, you will have less than optimum fruit production. Your only hope is that the nannyberry viburnums in your back yard bloom late enough to cross pollinate your Winterthurs. Your Blue Muffins will have a tougher time.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2005 at 10:51PM
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bluebirdbabe(z5 MI)

Great :( I guess I have alot to learn about polination. I thought that if you had more than one of each plant, they will polinate each other. I will do some checking to see if I can find the V. you suggested. Lord knows where I will be able to put it. Thank you Kevin.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2005 at 7:53AM
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vonyon

BBB: Kevin's suggestions just mean you can have more viburnums!! Always look at the bright side!

    Bookmark   July 9, 2005 at 8:33AM
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bluebirdbabe(z5 MI)

Von, I was out in the yard looking for more room. I think I can dig up the side yard. I only have one dogwood tree in the side yard. (My husband is gonna kill me!!! I told him when I bought the last 4 that I was all done :)) The only problem with the side yard is it doesn't get much sun. Some in the morning and not again until late afternoon. Also, I am really sorry...I am new to gardening (can ya tell) I didn't know about clones, cultivars, cross pollinating and I still am not sure what it all is. Anyway off to the nursery. I am a little mad at the nursery I got the blue muffins at, they didn't tell me anything about cross pollination. Good thing I live on 5 acres. I am going to buy v until I get it right! I will look for V dentatum and V nudum. I am finding on the tags that the plants are not listed as such. The winterthurs I bought said just that "Winterthur" How would I know I was getting a Nudum or not?

    Bookmark   July 9, 2005 at 9:04AM
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jillhudock(z7 PA)

ahhh, great question. It totally depends on the nursery if things are marked correctly. Often I have found things marked incorrectly at nurseries. Try to find a nursery where the people are really helpful and seem to know a lot about the plants they sell, they are usually more conscious of mislabeling things.
But, the Winterthur viburnum is the nudum viburnum. In simple terms, viburnum is the genus, nudum is the species and Winterthur is the cultivar. So, you could buy many different viburnums, many different viburnum nudums with various characteristics. But, you can only buy one kind of Viburnum nudum "Winterthur" because Winterthur gardens saw some great characteristics of the plant on one of their viburnum nudum's and decided to duplicate that to sell to us!
see the link for a much more thorough explanation - knowing this is the first step to becoming a gardening snob!!!!

http://www.horticulturist.com/mastermag9/backfill9.html

    Bookmark   July 9, 2005 at 11:33AM
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sarahbn(z6Pa.)

Here's another viburnum nudum cultivar but I'm not sure if it blooms the same time as the wintertur. I was lucky I bought mine at Fairweather gardens open house last July and they sold me another nudum that would cross pollinate with it to produce more berries. They are a mailorder company and very knowledgable. Good luck (you are very lucky to have 5 acres) Sarah

Here is a link that might be useful: Viburnum nudum

    Bookmark   July 9, 2005 at 2:30PM
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viburnumvalley(z5/6 KY)

BBB:

Some of the big wholesalers that propagate Winterthur are starting to propagate and sell another V. nudum to assist in cross-pollination. It is often only labeled as V. nudum pollinator. You might ask your nursery/garden center about getting you one for next year. Or.....post on one of the forums and see if any GWers have any in their hip pockets to help you out. Could be a cottage industry....seems to be a lot of lonely Winterthurs out there.

You could always palm off some of your duplicate viburnums on neighbors/friends in order to make room for the pollinators you want/need, and not necessarily have to dig up more ground. Far be it from me to discourage more viburnum planting, though. Dig up your whole five acres!

From my count, you only have four or five species represented. Now, there's only 80, 100, 120 more or so to go that you could admirably grow in MI. Let's get to it.

You'd never lack for cross-pollination then.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2005 at 8:18AM
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vonyon

VV: Will Witherrod pollinate winterthur? I don't know why I'm thinking of them together somehow though because my witherrod bloomed a while ago and the winterthur is just finishing blooming now. I guess maybe because they both start with 'W'?

    Bookmark   July 13, 2005 at 10:54PM
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bluebirdbabe(z5 MI)

The only v. I was able to find was a Chicago Luster. At least I have something that will help the blue muffins. I may have to mail order. I have called every nursery within a 50 mile radius looking for what I need. No one has them. Viburnumvalley, I have thought about digging up the 5 acres!! Actually we only mow about 1 1/2 acres, the rest is wild. I appreciate all the help and now I know what I have to look for. I have never mail ordered. Can you get v. that are not bare root? I want to live long enough to see the fruit. The plants I bought are 2-3' some have berries on them now. If I can find a nudum for the winterthru, I think I am all set. I hope the bluebirds appreciate this!!!!

    Bookmark   July 14, 2005 at 6:42AM
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vonyon

BBB: I ordered lots of stuff through Cold Stream Farm in Michigan last year. Their stuff is pretty reasonably priced.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2005 at 3:20PM
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The2Lees(z6 ON)

What about maple-leaf viburnum (acerifolium)? This is a shade-tolerant species that stays fairly short, perhaps even shorter than five feet. May be harder to find, but I'm sure mail order native-plant nurseries would have it.

Chris

    Bookmark   July 15, 2005 at 1:17PM
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