flooding

Campanula UK Z8September 14, 2013

saw pics of swollen rivers etc. (looked like Cornwall and Devon in the UK) - hoping everyone (David?) is OK, safe and dry for those in Colorado.

Flooding - becoming an annual catastrophe for far too many of us (and not because we were all greedy and stupid, building on floodplains)....although, dollars to doughnuts, I would bet that the developers and builders have dwellings on higher ground.

Have been reading a lot about rain gardens, berms and swales and enlightened town planning - not that there appears to be much put into practice in the UK.

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jodik_gw

I, too, hope everyone escapes disaster and loss due to this latest of weather related catastrophes...

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 9:01AM
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october17(5chgo)

I was always nervous driving in the Big Thompsonn canyon going to and from Rocky Mountain National Park.

I can't believe Estes Park is flooding. I hope it's not too bad.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 9:08AM
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pnbrown

I'm pretty sure Dave's place is at too high an elevation for serious flooding.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 9:49AM
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ohiomom

Estes Park roads begin crumbling (parts of Highway 66 have started to fall), forcing evacuations

Here is a link that might be useful: source of course

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 10:23AM
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david52 Zone 6

Pat, my place is relatively secure from flooding, but any of the mountain towns along any river are vulnerable, particularly to what's going on now.

Whats happening is incredible amounts of rain falling on lots of very steep terrain, 10 - 13 inches (25 - 33 cm) in a couple of days, funneled down into the canyons and out on the plains, where even more rain was falling. Thats happened before, but in only one watershed. This is all the watersheds all along the front range from Colorado Springs into Wyoming....

There are four roads into Estes Park, three are completely cut off - going down the St Vrain and the Big Thompson, miles of road are totally gone. So they're escorting people over Trail Ridge Road to the west. So picture all the old retired duffers with their massive vacation-home-on-wheels driving over this, ....its snowing and icing that high up....

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 11:07AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Colorado is having 500-year rains and flooding, including wilderness and park lands.

California had one of its worse fires in wilderness and park lands.

And the Koch brothers keep on funding their pollution-promoting, green-house-gas-producing causes.

Thanks, guys!

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 12:25PM
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jodik_gw

It's positively stupefying that people with so much power and influence can't see clear to use that for the betterment of humankind...

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 12:28PM
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david52 Zone 6

Here's a utube link to the town of Glenn Haven, along the north fork of the Big Thompson River......

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 2:01PM
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chase_gw

Another message from Mother Nature.....we need to figure out how to make her less cranky......its within our collective abilities to do so.....but we won't.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 3:26PM
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susanjf_gw

actually I can see estes park flooding in some areas....we camped there way back in 1978, and while the place we were at was "high", it looked down into a tourist area, which was flat enough that could retain water....and you have to remember fires create an instant flood planes with nothing to collect or slow rain...

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 3:40PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

The Kochs are working for the betterment of humankind.

Two of them.

Daddy helped Stalin set up his oil fields, then came back here and built a dynasty. The boys are just honoring the family traditions.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 4:16PM
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labrea_gw

More sadness & devastation next comes the Cheap cheap cheap your rivers your problem. I hope that's not so.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 5:24PM
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jodik_gw

It IS within our grasp, Chase... but you're right... we won't do anything about it... "we" being those who have the power and influence to start the ball rolling.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 9:00PM
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lily316(z5PA)

It's just sad watching the news tonight. I'm sure the death toll will rise. The Koch brothers keep on keeping on. Think about it. Almost at any one time there is a catastrophic event happening that never or rarely ever occurs. But they're happening at an alarming rate. Sandy last fall, the tornadoes in the spring, the horrible devastating fires in the west , and now these 500 year floods.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 2:43AM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

And things are probably just getting started. Wait until man-caused climate change is a little farther along.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 3:57AM
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terrene(5b MA)

There are still plenty of people, and not just wingnuts, who don't believe in anthropogenic climate change. I remember speaking to a hotel manager on the big Island of Hawaii in December 2011, who said "that volcano down there spews more gases into the atmosphere than humans do" (which is NOT true). This guy was some kind of math whiz too, did all the accounting for the hotel. And ironically, they just measured 400 ppm CO2 at the Mauna Loa monitoring station in May.

I've read a couple threads recently on other forums on GW, where clearly intelligent, educated, and rational posters have said they don't believe in man-made global warming.

Yes there are natural sources of CO2 but from what I've read they are generally balanced by natural carbon sinks. So what about the fact that atmospheric CO2 was at 280 ppm in pre-industrial times, and it's now at 400 ppm and rising?? Have anything to do with human activity? Have anything to do with climate change?

Edited to add a couple thoughts.

This post was edited by terrene on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 15:09

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 5:47AM
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pnbrown

Apparently tracking waste is being released due to the floods:

Here is a link that might be useful: rub-a-dub, 3 contanimens in a tub...

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 1:54PM
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david52 Zone 6

Along with all the broken sewage pipes and blown-out water treatment facilities.....

All this goes, eventually, into the South Platte River.

/Hello, Nebraska!!!

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 1:58PM
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duluthinbloomz4

Then doesn't it go into the Missouri River, then into the Mississippi and finally, hello Gulf of Mexico.

Our "Great Flood" of June 21st., 2012, was a horrendous event. Nothing on the Colorado scale, however. Here it came down in torrents from the high in city ponds, lakes, rivers, and streams taking out everything in its way to Lake Superior.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 2:52PM
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jodik_gw

"The torrential rains in Colorado this week have resulted in flooding which has killed several people so far. This flooding is made worse by multiple dams which have already failed due to overfill, with dozens more at risk.

Why are they at risk? It turns out that state Republicans have blocked bills to deal with repair or maintenance on infrastructure throughout the state. These efforts, done in the name of fiscal conservatism, do not save money at all, and wind up costing far more than the money saved. Several bridges and dams had already failed before the flooding, which makes the added stress of the current conditions too much to bear. It is reported that over 100 bridges are unsafe while the number of dams nearing failure continues to climb, with over 300 dams listed as at-risk, and two dozen as of extreme risk.

The department tasked with managing the repairs for dams in the state is woefully understaffed and underbudgeted, and the state Republicans refuse to fund any repairs in their push for âÂÂsmall government.â This flies in the face of the reality of aging dam infrastructure across the United States, with 85% to be over a half-century old by 2020."

More at link below...

Here is a link that might be useful: GOP Fought To Cut Bills...

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 3:15PM
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tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM

Camp, I wish there was more enlightened town planning going on around here. While you cannot plan and prepare for absolutely everything, more can be done to mitigate the water problems. It seems that too many people are short sighted when it comes to water in an arid area. Yes, most of the time it is dry but, it is not unheard of for rain to come down fast and hard. Rain like this is extremely unusual but its impact would be less if developments were not approved quickly in the interest of revenue. Homeowners also need to budget for developing berms and swales to help too. They are now anticipating a dam near Crownpoint, NM to break.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2013 at 8:40PM
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jodik_gw

The "interest of revenue" seems to dictate a lot these days... accompanied by shortsightedness.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 6:15AM
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ohiomom

"interest of revenue" I can totally agree with, however I do not believe they are shortsighted at all ... they just do not give a damn.

... the "they" are the (job) creators ... let us pay

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 7:28AM
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jodik_gw

A... men.

The shortsightedness is just a result of that grab for cash, or interest of revenue, or greed... or whatever you want to call it.

I'm sure the "job creators" are fully aware of what those end results might be... but like you say, they just don't care.

I really can't wrap my head around the fact that many of these people have children and grandchildren, but they still fail to give a damn about the results of their greed. Myself, I'd like to leave a semi-clean, functioning planet to my progeny... one that will sustain not only their generation, but generations to come. And if that takes some sacrifices on my part, I'm okay with that.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 8:01AM
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woodnymph2_gw

This has been a year of tragedy, for many, not just for Americans. But due to global warming, I fear this is the "New Normal" which we must all adapt to. Get ready to plan for the unexpected, weather-wise. The greed and lack of foresight for future generations is just sickening, and reflects our real values, as a people, unfortunately.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 10:25AM
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david52 Zone 6

I think thats the point - climate change isn't some mildly warmer temperatures allowing you to grow tomatoes an extra couple of weeks.

Look at the size of the flooding - both New Mexico and Colorado just received record-breaking amounts of rain, more moisture than we get in a year fell in a few days. I'd like to see the urban planning and necessary engineering that can deal with 10+ inches or rain in 3 days - in mountainous terrain.

And for SE Colorado/NE New Mexico, this on top of one of the worst droughts since the dust bowl.

So in the mountains, a lot of this was falling on this year or last year burn areas, so massive amounts of silt washing down, and on the drought areas, a lot falling on bare ground. I dunno how much erosion went on there.

So all that silt goes somewhere - reservoirs, water treatment plants, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to map of rainfall in the Denver Metro area

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 10:35AM
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haydayhayday

"A... men.
The shortsightedness is just a result of that grab for cash, or interest of revenue, or greed... or whatever you want to call it.

I'm sure the "job creators" are fully aware of what those end results might be... but like you say, they just don't care.

I really can't wrap my head around the fact that many of these people have children and grandchildren, but they still fail to give a damn about the results of their greed. Myself, I'd like to leave a semi-clean, functioning planet to my progeny... one that will sustain not only their generation, but generations to come. And if that takes some sacrifices on my part, I'm okay with that."

I'm lucky enough to live in one of the most beautiful spots on this planet. A place where the rich New Yorkers love to come up for the weekend. It's beautiful, in some part, because of Mother Nature and it's beautiful, in some part, because these job creators, (mine, for instance), take very good care of the land around them. They donate to buy up the prettiest parts. They pay hefty taxes to keep the roads in good shape...

I've got pictures of this area a hundred years ago. Every single tree was cut to create these huge smoldering piles of charcoal that was used in the smelting of the iron ore they found here. It must have been a very foul spot on the face of the earth at that time.

If you want to see abuse of the landscape, find any poor section of any country in the world. I've seen it on a beach in Mexico. Half the beach was local poor people. Half was owned by some rich group. Guess which half was trashed.

Hay

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 11:26AM
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alexrander

Taxes going for roads? Good grief, I thought taxes went to bankers. I guess they can afford to have someone clean up after themselves. Pick that up Jeeves!

Where I live, some pinko wives saved the bay from development and fill in.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 5:57PM
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david52 Zone 6

At the link is an article about all the flooded drilling sites, oil wells, storage tanks, and so on.

One gets the impression that the Colorado Oil and Gas Commission isn't exactly on top of things. The first thing they want to do is make a map of where the wells are.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   September 17, 2013 at 9:52AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The first thing they want to do is make a map of where the wells are.

It would not surprise me to see this response in other states if disaster struck there.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2013 at 10:50AM
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david52 Zone 6

FTA:

"Pictures of flooded well and drilling sites and damaged or floating tanks have been appearing on several social-media sites.

"We've seen the pictures but don't know the locations," Schuller said. "If people provide the locations, we will check them."

    Bookmark   September 17, 2013 at 10:55AM
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ohiomom

Thanks for the update David.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2013 at 5:06PM
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october17(5chgo)

jodi: "It IS within our grasp, Chase... but you're right... we won't do anything about it... "we" being those who have the power and influence to start the ball rolling."

You mean, like, Obama?

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 6:09AM
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pnbrown

Gosh, you mean they don't already have a map of thousands of wells and hundreds of pads all constructed since 2005?

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 7:30AM
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chase_gw

WOW that is really worrisome!

I suspect the same is true here . Another thing that should be worrisome is the declining condition of the infrastructure.

The costs of these rebuilds must be astronomical.

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 8:13AM
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david52 Zone 6

"Nearly 1,900 oil and gas wells in flooded areas are shut, and 600 industry personnel are inspecting and repairing sites, according to the Colorado Oil and Gas Association.

Crews are inspecting operations, conducting aerial and ground surveillance, identifying and determining locations of possible impairments, the association said Tuesday.

Meanwhile, individual companies reported the impacts of flooding on operations.

Houston-based Noble Energy, the largest operator in the Denver-Julesburg Basin, said that as of Tuesday 5 percent to 10 percent of its wells were shut in. Noble has 7,600 wells in Weld County.

On Tuesday, Noble crews saw a natural-gas release from two damaged wellheads. The release was reported to the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, the company said.

Anadarko Petroleum Corp., the second-largest operator in the basin, has shut about 10 percent of its operations - 250 tank batteries and 670 wells.

The Woodlands, Texas-based company also closed 20 miles of pipeline."

All so reassuring. I'm not sure what the play on Wall Street should be. I mean, surely some way to profit from this.....

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 10:20AM
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mylab123(z5NW)

TOnight's news talked about the search and rescue teams now are ordered to wear hazmat suits due to chemicals and contaminants in the flood waters. God only knows the sights which will haunt them long after the flood waters have receded and the clean up has been completed.
One woman got to go back to her home only long enough to get her animals, a few possessions - the gasses and fumes were so bad in her home that it had set off all the smoke and carbon dioxide alarms.

I can only wonder at the health damage done to her pets. There must be a back story as to why they were left behind, as Im sure so many poor, defenseless animals had to be.

Tragedy, all around.

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 11:45PM
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pnbrown

Dave, don't worry - you may not be able to think of a profit angle in this but the money guys are pros, they will figure it out, already have no doubt.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2013 at 7:25AM
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jodik_gw

We were watching the news with much sadness as the video showed herds of cows or beef animals just swimming in circles, enclosed in pens they couldn't get out of...

In case of an emergency, we'd release our animals and hope for the best... sometimes you don't have enough time to secure them in a safe area.

I would imagine the toxins will have some sort of effect on those living things left in them for some time... as a result of our house fire, I lost a great female to smoke inhalation, so there will be some issues down the road, I think.

Pnbrown is right... if there's a way to profit, or not take a loss, the financial world is busy implementing it... that, you can bet on.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2013 at 10:52AM
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david52 Zone 6

Aside from dead animals, washed out oil and gas rigs, broken sewage lines and all that, the floods also hit Rocky Flats, erstwhile plutonium trigger plant, which is considered one of the most contaminated pieces of land in the country.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2013 at 11:11AM
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jodik_gw

Lovely...

    Bookmark   September 19, 2013 at 11:34AM
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