Too many Sassafras seedlings -- HELP -- I'm losing the battle

graficaamy(6)March 23, 2009

I have an area about 50 x 100 feet that once had several large sassafras trees, and now has a huge number of their offspring. I am trying to create a woodland-ish garden with the anchor of a large maple tree, shrubs, eventually perennials, etc, so I am tryign to gradually clear out sassafras and nasty rose-like briar patch and put in what I want. But we can't seem to eliminate the sassafras. The most difficult ones are sprouting from underground sections of old root system. It's impossible to dig them up, and it seems that the more we try, the more saplings pop up the next year.

Anyone have any advice? I really want to stay organic, however I'm just about to give up and put on some herbicide. I've read somewhere about painting Round Up directly on newly cut stems. Or some hope that repeated backbreaking digging will eventually get rid of them? Please help.

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esh_ga

You can walk around with a pair of pruners and cut off every sprout you see. Eventually, those roots should run out of the energy necessary to resprout.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2009 at 9:20AM
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graficaamy(6)

They are really too vigorous I think. The other day we dug down about 15 inches to the "root culprit" of several above-ground saplings, and there was a buried 10-inch diameter stump down there. We tried furiously chopping it to bits with our pickaxe and shovers, and the thing actually sprayed out juicy sap -- FULL of energy to send up new babies. More like ghosts of sassafras past to haunt us!

    Bookmark   March 24, 2009 at 4:04PM
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rockguy(7a)

Round-up works much better sprayed or painted on the leaves, the way the instructions say. It won't do much at all put on the cut stems. Leaves have 1000 times the surface area of cut stems. They will all die if you treat them or cut them several times.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2009 at 8:56AM
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esh_ga

It won't do much at all put on the cut stems.

Actually if you put brush killer ("Round up" makes this form as well, Brush B Gon is another brand) on freshly cut woody plant stems (where it can get into the living layer just underneath the bark), it can be very effective. And some people swear that regular Round up applied at a stronger rate works fine too. The key is to have it come into contact with the living layer.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2009 at 3:58PM
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atokadawn(7)

Could just make tea? Sorry,trying to add a light side to the problem.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2009 at 11:16PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

"Round-up ... won't do much at all put on the cut stems."

Don't tell my undesirable trees that. They've been dying right away often with just a single dose. Apparently, no one told them they weren't supposed to.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 4:45PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

P.S.

The key is to apply it to the freshly cut cambium. This is the same layer that the Round-up would have to be transported through if it were applied to the leaves. Applying it to the freshly cut cambium is just short-circuiting it directly to that spot, so it's actually more effective than if it were applied to the leaves.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 4:57PM
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graficaamy(6)

ESH GA, and Brandon7 -- that's what I thought I had read about. Since I have regular Round Up already, I'll use it at a strong concentration (what do you suggest?). What about timing? Since I'm applying directly to new cut stem, do I need to have active leaf growth already?

[I like herbal tea, but this is ridiculous!]

    Bookmark   March 27, 2009 at 1:15PM
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esh_ga

I thought it was 1 and a half times as strong, perhaps brandon knows better. You could check the label - they might have the recommended amount there.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2009 at 2:39PM
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jpal(Boson, Zone 6)

You should apply herbicides according to the label.

The goal with herbicides, particularly in this type of useage, is to get it translocated (moved) down deep into the root system. If you use too strong of a mixture you can prematurely kill off plant tissue and short circuit the plumbing system which is moving the herbicide through the roots.

Patience is a virtue when using herbicides, as with other matters in life.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2009 at 12:42AM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

When I'm using the 18% stuff (off the top of my head, I think that's what the "regular" stuff is), I often apply it undiluted to the stumps. The way roundup works, it won't "prematurely kill off plant tissue....".

    Bookmark   April 3, 2009 at 4:21PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

I just went out and looked at a Roundup label. As Esh_ga guessed, it does have application rates for stumps. It says to immediately apply to fresh cuts and to use it undiluted. And, BTW, it is the 18% concentration (what I refer to as "regular" Roundup).

    Bookmark   April 3, 2009 at 4:27PM
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graficaamy(6)

Thanks brandon7 -- I should have figured that out myself -- to check the label! It's going to be painstaking work, since the worst of my sassafras situation are the small saplings (about 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter) that grow up in bunches of a dozen or so around the long-buried, still-vigorous root systems and old trunks. I'll try to gather my patience and do a little at a time. Thanks all.

    Bookmark   April 5, 2009 at 7:41PM
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masterstreamer

Do you have any idea how many people would love to own those seedlings, including me? You could dig them and sell them. Using Roundup is not an option. You may kill more than sassafras. The seedlings may not be that at all, but actually root starts from the main tree. Using Roundup near a tree does more damage to that tree than you will immediately realize.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2009 at 9:12AM
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countrycarolyn(6-7nwTN)

I am glad u said that master cause I was thinking the same thing sassafras is a native here in my area. Isnt that what this forum is for is to preserve native not destroy it. Since your cutting your tree down anyways lol mind trading some of your cuttings. Oh and the tea comment gotta love it.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2009 at 8:30PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

"Do you have any idea how many people would love to own those seedlings, including me? You could dig them and sell them."

You might want to do a google search on transplanting sassafras. They are not known to be easy to transplant. Digging them for sale wouldn't make much sense at all.

"Using Roundup is not an option. You may kill more than sassafras."

Really? How do you figure?

    Bookmark   May 21, 2009 at 12:03PM
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wholly(6a)

"Using Roundup is not an option. You may kill more than sassafras."

Really? How do you figure?

Because Roundup is a noxious product from an equally noxious company (Monsanto) which is trying to copyright ownership of our plants (and our ability to heal ourselves) from out of our garden and into their labs. Does any company produce a product that can be brushed onto Roundup to make it disappear?

Funny how what one considers a weed leads to politics. But, that said, I run an independent cafe and we have many many groups come to meet, and I have to say that the local garden club is BY FAR the most political group out there.

BTW, I'd love to have sassafras growing in my garden. I can't find plants or seeds for sale in all of North America! Apparently sassafras oil is a "precurser" in the making of ecstasy. I don't care myself. I'm just trying to get my garden back to it's native state.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 8:28PM
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fatamorgana2121(Zone 5/6)

Sassafras wasn't too hard to find - see link.

Beautiful trees. I love their mitten leaves and fall color.

FataMorgana

Here is a link that might be useful: Forest Farm - Sassafras

    Bookmark   December 19, 2010 at 10:01AM
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mosswitch

Wholly, Missouri Wildflowers Nursery has sassafrass trees for sale.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sassafrass trees

    Bookmark   December 26, 2010 at 8:01PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

Since this thread was recently bumped up, I'll add...

Whether Monsanto is an "evil" company that is trying to take over the universe, or not, is probably outside the scope of this thread, so I won't address that theory.

But, the fear that many have about RoundUp translocating to other plants or somehow magically hurting nearby plants is mostly unfounded. Glyphosate (the generic name for the chemical in most RoundUp products) will only translocate to other plants in very rare situation (like when same-species individuals have formed root-grafts with the targeted plant). Glyphosate (at least if we're speaking about small individual uses, maybe not its vast-scale use in agriculture) is one of the safest chemicals we use in our yards. It's actually much safer than many of the so called "organic" products. As long as proper precautions are used to prevent overspray (onto non-target plants) or wind-drift, it's pretty safe. And, BTW, when applied directly to freshly cut stumps, as described above, even these potential problems would not be relevant. Optimal results are obtained when used in late summer / early fall before leaf-drop, on most woody plants. Glyphosate/RoundUp, used as a freshly-cut stump killer works wonderfully and safely.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2011 at 6:30PM
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jimmy2010

Sassafras is one of a handful of great trees that for whatever reason are not commonly available in nurseries. I love their fall color and leaf shapes.
They can be easy to transplant if you find a SEEDLING. The problem is there's a good chance its a root sucker and that would not survive being transplanted- not enough roots.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2011 at 7:14PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

Finding seedlings around here isn't the problem, transplanting them can be. I've never seen any source that lists sassafras transplantation as "easy". Nurseries don't often sell this plant because it is relatively difficult (not impossible) to transplant.

    Bookmark   March 15, 2011 at 6:23PM
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jimmy2010

Seedlings are actually easy to transplant if you can locate one that's not a root sucker. I've been successful the few times I've tried.

They're not available in the nursery industry for a few reasons, not because they're difficult to plant. Anything grown in a pot would be easy to plant.

They may not be easy to propagate in large numbers. Also they probably don't grow fast enough and have irregular shapes when young, so that's probably why they're not widely available. Some native plant nurseries carry them.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2011 at 11:50PM
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granitestater

Re: the Tea comment and sassafras trees----Did some research when a sassafras tree was overtaking my dads house and no matter what my husband did he couldn't keep that thing under control. It was overtaking power lines and shingles. He would trim/remove large and small branches--they would sprout off bunches of new ones and grow quickly the same or the next year. And those limbs were wicked heavy too. Ironically now that we've bought an income property, we've found that it, and the adjoining neighbors property is "infested" with sassafras trees!!!Interesting how things work out.
Anyway, found that SASSAFRAS TEA IS HEPATOTOXIC, ie. it causes LIVER DAMAGE. Suggest no one makes sassafras tea. Cirrhosis and liver cancer is no picnic.

    Bookmark   September 29, 2011 at 3:28PM
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LizzE2013

I'm not so sure that Sassafras is your entire problem. It's very evident that the shady/semi-shady spot you're trying to clear is at the 'woodland meadow' stage. this is when dense undergrowth occurs, with the lack of a solid shade canopy. You may win the battle with round up and (as some pointed out)also sicken or lose the desired sassafras specimens. But after the round up, briars, native wildflowers and weeds will be a consistent, and never-ending battle. Not sure how much energy you have for this year after year. If you be patient, as one stated, after several years these trees and briars will duke it out, and MANY will lose (choked-out), resulting in your desired canopy cover absent of thick undergrowth. Sometimes it's actually more rewarding to just put a split-rail cedar or ash fence with a simple foot trail and bird feeder! I'm a bee keeper and and very apprehensive to all the simple chemical answers. Curious what varieties you wish to introduce.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2013 at 8:37PM
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alabamatreehugger(8)

If the redbay ambrosia beetle (along with laurel wilt) makes its way northward there won't be any sassafras to worry about.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 10:41AM
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jamesmaloy

If by chance anyone is still speaking here one solution I would suggest is to drill holes in the stump itself and fill these holes with plain cheap brand tablesalt. Do this repeatedly for several months the salt will kill the roots. Drill as many holes as you can as large as you can. Round up may be an option .James in Florida

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 1:16AM
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alhhaois(6)

Good post jamesmaloy. I had heard about this type of treatment as well.
My question to you - or anyone else to chime in -
do you think the round-up on the shoots + the salty stump would help progress it faster ??? I also bought some stump killer but still have the reciept. Lots more kosher salt to spare !!!
Also, as others had mentioned applying the "brush killer"...if I weed wacked the shoots and applied quickly to the bruised stems ... is that a viable option ???

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 12:25PM
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ken_mce(zone 4, NY)

graficaamy:
I have an area about 50 x 100 feet that once had several large sassafras trees, and now has a huge number of their offspring.

I can understand getting tired of dancing around with a pest and bringing out the chemicals. morally it is a lesser position, but sometimes one just gets tired. I like esh_ga 's pruner suggestion if you've the strength and patience. For pruner you could also substitute weed whacker or propane torch, whatever makes it easiest for you. The difficulty is of course that the tree may be more patient than you are. Trees don't do anything quickly, not even die.

jpal
Patience is a virtue when using herbicides, as with other matters in life.

-Just ask any Sassafrass

graficaamy :
It's going to be painstaking work, since the worst of my sassafras situation are the small saplings (about 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter) that grow up in bunches of a dozen or so around the long-buried, still-vigorous root systems and old trunks. I'll try to gather my patience and do a little at a time.

I think if you go the Roundup route you should try and do a lot at a time, so as to get a sufficiently large dose into the roots. You don't just want to wound it, you want it dead.

masterstreamer :
Using Roundup is not an option. You may kill more than sassafras. The seedlings may not be that at all, but actually root starts from the main tree. Using Roundup near a tree does more damage to that tree than you will immediately realize.

Roundup will kill 'most anything it gets on, that's what it's for. Are you suggesting it will damage things it was not sprayed directly on? How so?

wholly:
Roundup is a noxious product from an equally noxious company (Monsanto) which is trying to copyright ownership of our plants (and our ability to heal ourselves) from out of our garden and into their labs.

You have touched upon the heart of my concerns about Roundup. Based on what I know, it is the safest product out there. However everything I know comes from the manufacturer, and thoroughly slash & burn any serious critics.

wholly:
Does any company produce a product that can be brushed onto Roundup to make it disappear?

They claim it breaks down safely in the soil. Of course if it doesn't, how would we know?

wholly :
Apparently sassafras oil is a "precurser" in the making of ecstasy.

So THAT'S why they're such nice trees

    Bookmark   June 9, 2013 at 8:04AM
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sewsmiles(8a)

Did you ever get your Sassafras saplings problem resolved? We have them here in East Texas and even after cutting down the main tree, still have saplings coming all up in my English Ivy bed beneath the Live Oaks.We're having the same problem in the backyard! I'm ready to tackle this. Thanks in advance for any advise you may be able to offer!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2014 at 1:10PM
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lazy_gardens

Sewsmiles ... The most certain way is to use glyphosate according to the directions (generic stuff from WalMart works great)

If the sassafras is in with things you want to keep, look up "tongs of death" ... it's an applicator so you can wipe the herbicide along the trunk and leaves of the weed trees.

Or make a little spray booth out of some cardboard boxes to isolate the sassafras tops as you spray, then move it to the next victim.

When you do a treatment (herbicide, cutting at ground level, etc.) treat the whole area in a short time so It can't recover from the injury as easily.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2014 at 1:27PM
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Birdsong72(7/Northshore NJ)

What a damned nightmare thread. Anyone who uses roundup should be shot (no if's ands or buts) and I really don't care who I may aggravate with that comment.

To think that it has occupied the majority of the commenters positions here tells me you haven't a clue, nor searched for less harmful solutions or worse yet, woe is me, learn to live with them (i.e sassafras). The best damned solution? A (EARLY, maybe the first) commenter indicated this problem can be addressed with lopers. Gardening sometimes takes a bit of 'grunt' - but with this group, it's chemicals all the way which is short sighted and should be the option of very very last resort.

At last count, I have 5-6 sassafras on my property and they serve beautifully as 'understory' trees in my oak stand (along with a half dozen dogwoods, redbuds, serviceberry). I've trimmed them up and will continue to do so, and they're not sending anything stolinferously. Should any others volunteeer (via the songbird droppings) I'll address with hand pruners and lopers should they be in the wrong place. I also happen to have 20+ oaks and hickory saplings also growing as I write amongst the 16 oaks I currently have (60'ers) providing the 'ultimate anchor' of a woodland garden.

In closing, I find it unbelievable, no, make that incredulous that no one brought out the fact, that NO WAY, NO HOW is anyone going to grow a 'woodlandish garden' under a large maple. NOTHING is going to grow under that maple. Maybe ask the Texan for some of that English Ivy. The very aspect of this TP's initial lament as to sassafras IS THE LEAST OF HIS/HER PROBLEMS. I suggest that they begin planting oak whips and cut the damn maple down for firewood once the oaks begin to take. Then, the original poster can begin contemplating what they may want in a woodland garden, because it ain't happening under a huge maple. FACT

This post was edited by birdsong72 on Tue, Jul 1, 14 at 12:25

    Bookmark   June 29, 2014 at 9:34PM
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Birdsong72(7/Northshore NJ)

For what it's worth, this snapshot of my property was all lawn with some cursory foundation plantings (which I ripped out 15 years ago when we moved in). You can see one of my sassafras saplings just to the right of the oak that is in the foreground (and which is across the street from my home). I've yet to have any of the sassafras send their roots and begin colonizing my property with them.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2014 at 11:12PM
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wisconsitom

Birdsong, if you can take a little time out from shooting people, I'd like to suggest to you that A) The world is made out of a bewildering range of chemicals. If all of the materials that make up, for instance, your body, were to be listed, it would require its own forum just to contain all the crazy, long, unpronouncable materials that comprise you. And B) throughout nature, chemical warfare is the norm, not the exception. Plants use a little process known as allelopathy to inhibit their competitors-and really, this is a wildly truncated statement in and of itself-some allelopathic relationships could also be mutualistic under some conditions, etc-but in truth, organisms are poisoning each other all the time. For another example, where do you suppose the original conception for many of our fungicides came from? Yep, naturally-occuring compounds found out in the wild.

Your attitude is one of extreme ignorance. I'm a nature-lover from probably before you were born and I can tell you that in the hands of a careful applicator, glyphosate can be a marvelous tool in native restorations. Don't damn the technology just because there have been careless and/or irresponsible people and incidents. And the problem with glyphosate, in any case, is not with small-scale localized applications to effect some transition in this or that natural area....it's with the wholesale use of Roundup-Ready crops such that new super weeds are emerging. That's a serious consequence of an interesting idea being carried out on a massive scale, and has nothing whatever to do with the topic of this thread.

Or....don't try to expand your understanding even one tiny little bit. Just keep shooting, I guess.

+oM

    Bookmark   July 2, 2014 at 9:58AM
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Birdsong72(7/Northshore NJ)

Thank you for playing and I'm far from ignorant. Question. Which chemical company do you work for Gov. Ryan? Care to comment on the usage of a chemical which is NOW being found in our food, our water, and our bodies. And that's a good thing, a permissable thing as per your comments?

http://naturalsociety.com/monsantos-infertility-linked-roundup-found-in-all-urine-samples-tested/.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/05/31/study-found-toxin-from-gm-crops-is-showing-up-in-human-blood.aspx

http://ecowatch.com/2014/02/27/monsantos-roundup-found-in-75-of-air-and-rain-samples/

Any reason that organic farming is increasing each and every yearwhile conventional farming is flat? Mankind farmed for thousands of years without chemicals and NOW we can't do without?

http://www.ruralroots.org/programs/organics/OrganicSurveyFinalReport.asp

http://aenews.wsu.edu/july02aenews/organics/organics.pdf

http://eartheasy.com/blog/2011/10/7-ways-organic-farms-outperform-conventional-farms/

All the industry commentary as to it's inertness is hogwash. It's nonsense and it's poisonous....

And here's my biggest problem. That it's even available to the public. Ever see the rows and rows of Round Up stacked as soon as you walk into Home Depot or Lowes? It's being hawked heavily 'in your face' (in spring/summer) to the masses of lazy, misinformed suburbanites who need a personal day should a weed appear in a sidewalk crack and who must keep up with the Jone's next door.

I grow organic on my small garden (less than 1/3 acre). I grow heirloom only, and I'll call you out on your being a nature lover before I was born (tell me you were doing this in 1962 which is not my birth date, but the year I began gardening with my mother). I'm retired, I'm young, I'm active and I'm still open-minded. And I've long since made my decision as to the use of chemicals like Round Up. In closing, what I'm most certainly NOT is ignorant. Again, thanks for playing.

This post was edited by birdsong72 on Thu, Jul 3, 14 at 8:58

    Bookmark   July 3, 2014 at 8:55AM
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Birdsong72(7/Northshore NJ)

And once again, I will comment. Why hasn't anyone told the poster that you're not going to grow a 'woodlandish' garden under a large maple?

So conveniently overlooked by nearly everyone on this thread, including Gov. Ryan.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2014 at 9:06AM
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Acadiafun

The two issues the OP brought up was regarding getting rid of sassafras seedlings and growing a woodland garden under maple trees. I hope in the almost five years since he/she posted the original thread the situation is resolved. I am in a similar situation.

Since I have hundreds of these tiny sassafras trees that I am dealing with I will not rule out chemicals at some point. Until then I am taking a garden hoe and hacking them to death. Sometimes I use a clipper but after awhile that gets hard on the back.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2014 at 9:23AM
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Birdsong72(7/Northshore NJ)

One would hope.

This post was edited by birdsong72 on Fri, Jul 4, 14 at 16:18

    Bookmark   July 4, 2014 at 11:10AM
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sandygettysburg

This is a warning to those of you who love sassafras trees from someone who once loved sassafras trees. i have a twenty year old tree in my front yard which was a perfect companion until in began to die. About two years ago it started sending up 20 or 30 shoots a month. It did not come back this spring and now I have 40 or 50 shoots a week. The sassafras seems unwilling to coexist with my other plantings. Constantly cutting off the shoots that are intermingled with other plantings is an overwhelming task. Further, no matter how careful I am, I am hurting other delicate plants as I cut off the shoots. I wish someone had warned me that one of my favorite trees is best enjoyed in the woods, not in my yard.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2014 at 4:31PM
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wisconsitom

Birdsong, I'm not sure who Gov Ryan is supposed to be-in this context, but I would like to say, you and I do have some points of agreement: As a long-time horticulturist/arborist/gardener/nature lover, I too cringe at what all chemicals are available for use by the general public-all with no requirements that any of these peole have a clue what they're doing with the stuff. Anybody in my position has by now heard and witnessed plenty of horror stories about folks just absolutely abusing the products and the landscape with their misguided application strategies.

Where we depart is in what I see as your use of blanket statements which, if taken as the truth, would impugn all and every use of such chemcials as invalid and ruinous to the environment. I simply know this not to be the case. And especially in some of the work I do-native restoration-we're up against plant species which laugh at anything but the most heavy-duty attempts to eradicate, or just control. Plus, we specialize in extremely careful delivery of these chemical agents. I'm talking about such techniques as "hand-wicking" of glyphosate onto undesirable plant species, meaning the material is literally being wiped, swiped, or painted onto the offending plants, thereby completely avoiding everything else. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I too praise the movement towards more organically-grown foodstuffs. For my part, I was into that beginning in 1975. I just think you overshoot when you mix big ag,, landscape maintenance as practiced by conscientious pros, native restorations, and all the rest into one big pot of evil. There's problems aplenty with improper pesticide usage in this world. But conflating everything together does not serve the purpose of getting to better strategies.

+oM

    Bookmark   July 7, 2014 at 8:33AM
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