Lantana horrida

GreatPlains1(7OK)July 14, 2013

I just ordered 2 packs of seed from Native American Seed. I was wondering if I direct sow one pack, imitating nature and keep the other one for more controlled sowing I will have some luck? Any advice? Do these seeds come up easily or do they need cold stratification? N.A.S. gives no sowing instructions and I can't find much information elsewhere. I read about them reseeding a lot.

I have been searching high and low for this plant online and locally with no luck. You can find L. camara all over the place and especially those bedding plant types but when it comes to the native big one, which is what I want, there's none to be found. Bustani's in Stillwater OK had them in spring but I was late and they were sold out.

I have found some interesting ones growing around here that do get large, a solid gold one thats about 4' tall and 5' wide and some of the common wild L. camara type and I started plants from cuttings. I am trying to establish them in a long wide area to be a drought hardy screen and fight the neighbors hated vinca vine which I trimmed way back. I want tough, drought hardy aggressive plants in this particular situation and those small wimpy cultivars won't cut it.

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marti8a

My experience is that you should probably do a controlled planting. I got seeds off a native horrida, which didn't seem to have any seedlings around it. I managed to get one seedling out of all the seeds I gathered, and it did have some seedlings around it one time, but never again.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2013 at 3:30PM
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Perylene(7b TX)

I can comment directly about this because I grew my Lanata horrida from seeds purchased from Native American Seed, too. I had no luck finding info about growing them -- most growing instructions I found assumed you are taking cuttings from hybrid lantanas. I wanted to grow Lantana horrida, so I bought two packets of seeds and had terrible luck with them. Here's what I tried first (I think each group was 5 to 10 seeds):

-24 hour soak in tepid water, placed in moistened sand and stratified for two months in fridge.
-48 hour soak in hot water (changed every 12 hours), then placed in coffee filters. (No stratification)
-Nicked with nail clippers, soaked 48 hours in hot water (changed every 12 hours), then placed in coffee filters. (No stratification)
-Sanded with file to expose inner seed coat, soaked 48 hours in hot water (changed every 12 hours), then placed in coffee filters. (No stratification)

None of the above methods worked.

The following attempt resulted in a single seedling out of 20 seeds:

10 seeds sanded with nail file to expose inner seed coat, 10 seeds untouched. All soaked in seaweed solution on heating mat for 24 hours, then planted in soil (I gave up at this point). Seedling sprouted in 9 days.

I think it was dumb luck, honestly. I wish I could tell you whether sanding the seed coat was the winner or not. Anyway, I guess that's one seedling out of two packets -- I hope your luck is better than mine! My lantana's 1 1/2 years old now and sailing through this summer just fine. I haven't had any reseeding from it at all.

I don't normally document plants, but this one was such a pain that I did, and I took photos:


(2012) Day 1


Four weeks, 3 days


Seven weeks


July 2013

This post was edited by Perylene on Mon, Jul 15, 13 at 2:12

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 2:10AM
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plantmaven(8b/9a TX)

They come up quite often from bird droppings. Maybe if you put a few out and talked a bird into......just jerking you around.
I would try 3 ways.
1. They are very tough plants. Direct sow some of your seeds now and don't pamper them, just ignore them
2. direct sow and water as you would any xeric plants in your area.
3. try some type of stratification and plant in pots.

Here is a secret. Lantana will freeze. DO NOT prune the dead branches until you see new growth in the spring. The reason is that the inner part of the stem is pith and it will wick in moisture and rot the plant down to the roots.

At a former house I had a bird planted one come up under a redbud tree. It got huge in just 2 or 3 years, maybe 4 ft.
I do know that redbud seeds geminate faster when they come from my down spout. I suspect they need to go through a bird's digestive track. I do not have a redbud tree at this house and they keep coming up in the down spout runoff area.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 11:51AM
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plantmaven(8b/9a TX)

I just had a thought. Maybe email the wild flower site to see if they can give you info.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lidybird Johnson wildflower enter

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 12:31PM
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GreatPlains1(7OK)

I'm wondering if a pre soak in hydrogen peroxide soak might help? This sounds like it may be a bit of a challenge. Perylene, I hope I get at least one to germinate too. That would end up being a $23.59 seedling. Ouch! Odd because the L. camara seeds come up so easily.

I got online to find out if there is a way to simulate a birds digestive tract and ran across information saying to use a soak in saltpeter or hydrogen peroxide. I even found a recipe for making saltpeter by mixing Lite Salt and the stuff that is in cold packs. Then I looked up vinegar to see if the acid from that would work in a similar way. Maybe I should try scarification and then a soak in hydrogen peroxide. Its supposed to prevent damping off too, I didn't know that.

Thats a good idea to contact Lady Bird Johnson wildflower center. Maybe Mr. Smarty Plants has some tips.

If all fails, I will try to get my rear in gear and pre-order early next spring from Bustani's. They told me they sell out quick and they advised to do that.

Thank you all for the information and advice.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 2:50PM
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Perylene(7b TX)

That'd be nice if there was some definitive seed info for starting indoors. There's an article from http://npsot.org about Texas Lantana, but little help regarding seed starting:

"Seeds should be planted in light medium in late winter to spring and may take 40-60 days to germinate."

http://npsot.org/wp/story/2011/1801/

It's a good site in general for native plant info.

GreatPlains, I'm sure you'll get a bunch of seedlings to grow, but if you don't, drop a line here and I'll make a cutting for you from my plant this fall (or spring, if you prefer). I'm going to be rooting a bunch of cuttings of various plants this fall anyway.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 2:53PM
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GreatPlains1(7OK)

Thank you Perylene. I'm going to give it the old college try and try both vinegar and hydrogen peroxide with scarification, sown indoors and out. If I don't have success I'll contact you, maybe I have something you don't have that you'd like to trade for. Those cuttings I took from the unknown large lantana shrub with the solid gold flowers is gorgeous and loaded with blooms all summer/fall and they started rooting in a week. Maybe you'd be interested in trading some cuttings? Many of the plantings in this landscape are from Texas, its located in the predominantly Hispanic part of the city. They have the lantanas planted with Russian Sage and Salvia greggii all along a south exposure wall. Its a gorgeous combination all summer no matter how hot we get. I also got the 'Dallas Red' and its taking off and is really nice too but its a smaller plant.

Yea I saw that 40-60 day thing too. That's kind of depressing. "Seedling sprouted in 9 days" was good to hear, even if it was just the one. I liked that much better.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2013 at 3:47PM
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Perylene(7b TX)

I'm sure you'll have better luck with your seeds, but if not we can do some sort of cutting exchange. I think I may have had bad luck with my test methods, so I won't be surprised if you end up with too many seeds sprouting instead of not enough!

    Bookmark   July 16, 2013 at 1:28PM
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marti8a

Great Plains, where in OK are you located? Very close to Vernon, TX by any chance?

    Bookmark   July 16, 2013 at 3:22PM
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GreatPlains1(7OK)

I don't know if its about your methods. I bought a D-pak of the Turk's Cap last fall and tried sowing some in pots outdoors over winter, some in the house warm by a south window and then some I planted outside in pots in spring. I got zero results. I'd read they come up in a few days. The other wildflower seeds I got came up just fine. So, I'm not what you'd call overconfident in these Lantana seeds and that was why I ordered two packs. I did find Turk's Cap at Bustani's, a white and a red so I at least I finally got the plants and now I also have rooted cuttings.

Bustani's had sold out of a hybrid Lantana horrida that they named 'Zinn Orange' along with the typical yellow/orange one collected in Palo Pinto County, Texas. The yellow hybrid is from one that was originally purchased by someone who's been growing it for years named Zinn who bought it from a nursery here that has since closed, its mature size is 40" x 60", the orange is 30" x 48". It has bright yellow blooms, no orange. I am wondering if the large solid yellow one I took cuttings from could be this same plant since it was for sale here locally at one time? The plant has stiffer scratchier leaves and stems than the L. camara's I've rooted.

marti8a, I'm dead center in Oklahoma. I live close to the capital.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2013 at 3:58PM
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GreatPlains1(7OK)

Success.......I got two seeds germinated already that I planted 5 days ago and I'm so happy! I planted one entire D-pak.

Method:
1. Rubbed seeds between two pieces of sandpaper until the dried up black part was gone and they were a little roughed up.
2. Soaked in 2/3 hydrogen peroxide and 1/3 water, more or less.
3. Lightly nicked all seeds with straight edge razor blade.
4. Planted 1/2" deep or so in vermiculite + potting soil and set them in the shade by my back door to make it easy to check daily so they don't dry out.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 3:06PM
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marti8a

Yay! I'm glad it worked for you, and quickly too.

The reason I asked is that the horrida that I got seeds from is in Vernon.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 5:05PM
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Perylene(7b TX)

See, I knew you'd have good luck. Congrats! What are you going to do with a whole D-pak's worth of lantana when the rest of them sprout? :D

Talking about different seed methods reminded me to get started on planning for fall sowing. I ordered some seed from NAS and now I'm cooling my heels until fall. Summer seems awfully long right about now.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 8:01PM
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GreatPlains1(7OK)

Perylene, now I'm curious what you ordered?

I'm kicking myself now for not ordering more kinds of seeds from them while I was at it because of the shipping price. I do love the Lazy Daisy's, which are real cute and annual Gallardia and Tahoka Daisy's I planted last fall. They've been blooming continuously since spring and I'm going to let them naturalize.

I'm going to plant as many lantanas that come up and don't croak. Marti, that would be a treat to be able to see them growing wild like you guys have down there by Vernon. It is completely frustrating reading how common they are growing wild there in Texas as if they are everywhere and how next to impossible it is to find plants for sale. There's so many confusing hybrids for sale but not a native available anywhere. I wish there was a mail order place specializing in native Texas plants, if there is one, I can't seem to find it.

Since its so late in the growing season I better try to winter a plant or some cuttings indoors.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2013 at 10:35PM
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Perylene(7b TX)

Yeah, I'm not really wild about the shipping charges, so I only order once a year if that. I'm trying American basketflower, pincushion daisy (really curious about this one), cowpen daisy, golden dalea, and meadow pinks. I've got some older seeds, mostly liatris and milkweeds, that I'm going to try fall sowing. Nothing complicated, hopefully!

Actually, there was a native nursery here called Mostly Texas Natives Nursery that did mail order, but it closed last year. That's where I got my Gregg's mistflower. I don't think even they sold Lantana horrida, though -- they sold multicolored Lantana camara and the purple trailing ones. I've never seen Lantana horrida for sale, so it's grow your own from seed or nothing, oddly.

    Bookmark   July 23, 2013 at 12:42AM
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bostedo(8a tx-bp-dfw)

Barton Springs Nursery often stocks this if you're ever in the Austin area. We picked ours up there after no luck finding one around Dallas.

Hardiness info appears absent or inconsistent for this plant. Does it survive unsheltered in Zone 7?

Here is a link that might be useful: Barton Springs Nursery

    Bookmark   July 24, 2013 at 2:53PM
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GreatPlains1(7OK)

I've now got 4 seeds germinated.

bostedo, its hardy here, if its a real cold winter its only root hardy but they don't reach the size they would in south Texas. Info is just plain hard to get period on L. horrida. Thats why I am reporting my seed results. I read everything there was on GW and online. The best help was the bird droppings information I got from Plantmaven along with the various trial sowings done by Perylene.

The low growing yellow hydrid ground cover one is hardy too and so is the wild L. camara which is hardy all the way up to the north top of the state and probably into Kansas. My grandmother had this growing when I was a kid close to the Kansas border. There's hybrid ones I see around the city that have been there for years, I don't know the types but I understand if they are, they have L. horrida in their genetics. The 'Dallas Red' is being tested but the nursery thinks this one may be hardy too if its protected.

Perylene, I hope you give a report on that pincushion daisy. I want to know if it smells as good as they say, I thought it would look real good growing among my bluestem grasses. I had the Cowpen Daisy on my list too. That is one long bloom period plus it will take quite a bit of shade and I need some color for that situation.

This post was edited by GreatPlains1 on Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 19:26

    Bookmark   July 24, 2013 at 7:25PM
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