Posible Dumb Question

wantonamara Z8 CenTexJuly 20, 2014

I bought a Pavonia brasiliensis and they said it was different from Pavonia hastata. I do not take anything nurseries say as verbatim. I google and I get separate entries for both, not listing the other as a synonym but they sure look the same. I have grown P. has tat at my old house and I tried the p has tat out here but I just put it in the ground without any adjustments. I am trying again, or for the first time if this plant is a different one. If there is a difference , it is that the flower is bigger on the Braziliensis, but that could be a environmental excessive fertilizer issue. Does any one know the a story on they?

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not a dumb question at all and good that you don't take their word as the bible as a lot of them repeat what they read in their wholesale catalogs.

If you wiki p. hastata, it says that it is a Brazil native. Wouldn't it be logical to think p. brazilensis is also native to Brazil? My guess is that they are the same plant, though the literature doesn't say so.

I used to have p. hastata and after a few years it died, I don't know why b/c it was an easy plant. If I saw it again, I would get another one.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2014 at 3:38PM
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wantonamara Z8 CenTex

I thought that too, but it could have more than one pavonia that was similar in the same way that we have very similar wild plants that are hard to tell apart. There lies the confusion. I bought it and I am scratching my head because I am collecting seeds for someone in England ( and she would like to have the correct name) and I am wondering about if I include two seeds from two different plants with two different names. I grew it for 10 years before and I had lots of babies from it at my old place.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2014 at 4:15PM
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bostedo(8a tx-bp-dfw)

If your plant has that "spearleaf" shape, I'm with bossyvossy - it's the same as p. hastata. P. brasiliensis does not even appear to be widely accepted as a separate species; looks more like it has been usurped as a better "scientific" name than p. hastata for marketing a plant commonly known as Brazilian rock rose. One trace back (ironically in Flora Brasiliensis) has it tagged as a synonym of hibiscus brasiliensis, which has a significantly different shaped leaf.

Our p. hastata plants only last a couple years or so, too. But they volunteer in place so easily, that they slowly drift about the bed over time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pavonia brasiliensis Spreng

    Bookmark   July 21, 2014 at 7:10PM
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wantonamara Z8 CenTex

This is not the whole story. They said it was Pavonia g_______ on a sign by the plants and I thought that it would be written thus on the white tag, but when I got home the white tag had Pavonia braziliensis.Darn these old eyes. the details of life just escape me at times. I need to call up the Natural gardener and find out the "G" name.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2014 at 11:37PM
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MKull(8 SATX)

the only Pavonia "g" could be Pavonia x gledhillii. Are the leaf margins smooth or jagged?

    Bookmark   July 22, 2014 at 11:40AM
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wantonamara Z8 CenTex

slightly jagged and spear with a wider lobes at the base. There are many more G's and P x gledhillii Cheek has red flowers so it is definitely not that. I have not had time to research this further yet . Must make money.

Here is a link that might be useful: Many pavonia list. scroll to G's

    Bookmark   July 22, 2014 at 12:05PM
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MKull(8 SATX)

Well I be. Darned internet, proving I don't know everything since 1994.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2014 at 12:26PM
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wantonamara Z8 CenTex

Well, I have now confirmed my suspicions that this is all a nursery caused confusion and yes it is Pavonia hastata. LOL. I am not unhappy.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2014 at 12:29PM
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bostedo(8a tx-bp-dfw)

Glade you got an answer. Most of the shenanigans with the scientific names I've seen have occurred at the growers, so certainly don't fault good retailers like Natural Gardener (or Redenta's in our area) for occasionally falling victim to the mess. Though can sympathize as slow and convoluted as the ancient plant naming process appears to be. Suppose it will stop being an issue once our "Tricorders" can provide a direct reading from the plant DNA as we browse the nursery :-)

    Bookmark   July 22, 2014 at 1:22PM
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