Estler's Mortgage Lifter

Corgikarma(6)October 11, 2013

Does anyone know where to find seeds that ship to the US?

Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

The only source Tania lists is Heritage Harvest in Canada, but as you know they do not ship to the US.

Please read the thread on Late Tomatoes here on the first page for more info about it in terms of seed that might be possibly available in the future.

Carolyn

    Bookmark   October 11, 2013 at 6:28PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sue_ct(z6 CT)

I wish I had had a good enough season to save seeds. Really like this one and sad that I may not be able to grow it again. If I have any seeds left for next year, I hope someone reminds me to save the seeds, lol. To be honest, until I just saw this post I had forgotten that it was not available any more. Maybe someone will pop up to sell it for next year if they grew it out this year.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2013 at 10:07PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

I don't know about the "ESTILER's" version , both seeds and seedling for ML were available this past season, even at the big box nurseries. I clearly remember Fred Myers(Kroger) had plenty of them. Tat is why I am not going to start from seed but wait and buy plants instead.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 2:41AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

There are about 15 "versions" of ML if youlook at Tania's website and most of them, but not all, just carry the name of the person who first listed it in the SSE Yearbooks, And there are several persons I know who have grown out many of them in the same season for comparison and find llittle difference.

But the Estler one I and quite a few others like more than others that we've grown in terms of taste, production and consistent high yields,

Carolyn.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 8:48AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
larryw(z6Ohio)

I've got seeds but they are very old-probably over 12 years old.

These go way back to the Internet Tomato Trials. Frankly, I was one of those individuals that grew out several varieties of Mortgage Lifter side by side for comparison. Radiator Charlies was the star for me and I have stuck with it ever since when tempted to grow some Mortgage Lifters.

If you would like my seeds I will root through my freezer storage area for them. On the other hand, if you really want to try a couple of excellent red beefsteaks I'd suggest
Lil's Favorite or Big Beef Hybrid.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 9:50AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheltieche

The way I understand Morgage lifter is just a common term used in the past for farmers who were supplementing their income with side jobs as selling tomatoes or baking etc. So that creates confusion as tomatoes all different and have no ties except the name?
I got ML this year from a friend to taste, no idea which one that was, was very nice and pleasant beefsteak but had no wow factor compare lets say to Marianne Peace which is about standard in late tomato taste for me.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 11:54AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Mortgage Lifter is a very specific name, and not a general one for farmers trying to make money.

There is no information on why the Estler one was named Mortgage Lifter but there is for theRadiator Charlie one, which is all folks knew before the Estler one appeared.

Jeff McCormack intervied M. C Byles, Radiator Charlie, and related the info he got to his then SESE seed site, link at thebottom.

A mortgage is something that one takes out to buy a home or whatever, and then pays it off over time. As you'll see from the link at the bottom, that's exactly what M.C. Byles did,ans in paying off, or lifting, his mortgage.

Tania indicates all the various Mortgage Lifters in this link and all of them, except Estler's are essentially the same,with just the name of the person who SSE listed it as partof the ML name.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Mortgage_Lifter,_Radiator_Charlie%27s

Summary?

Just one name, Mortgage Lifter, and different versions of that same one as first listed by different folks who had grown it in their own gardens.

And yes,there is some confusion since the Estler one was said to bedeloped in1922,see theTania link and much more, and the Radiator Charlie one about 10 years lat ger, both using the name Mortgage Lifter.

I don't think that will ever be solved.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: M L info from SESE

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 1:20PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheltieche

mmm, I happen to have Amy Goldman èHeirloom tomato...èbook and this is what she writes:
èMorgage lifterèis a generic term that refers to a set of big old tomatoes, characteristically pink, from central Appalachia. Radiator Charlieôs ML is the best known....
M.C. Byles did not invent the term, commodities that generate extra income for farmers, such as hogs, corn, or beans, have traditionally been labeled èmortgage liftersè
Amy cites article èThe Mortgage lifter: A man and his tomatoè by John Marra for 1994 story for Goldenseal where it says that Bill Estler offered his seeds to grow by local greenhouse and when greenhouse worker Shorty Meadows brought him tray of transplants he said èIôve brought you your mortgage liftersè Bill fell for the name and made it his ownè

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 2:47PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ediej1209(5 N Central OH)

Carolyn, yes it IS solved. Estler's was first. It's been well-documented but people still insist on repeating an erroneous story about that imposter Byles. GRRR. It was a huge error by a stupid lawyer that allowed others to hijack the Mortgage Lifter name. My Grandfather was too trusting... but one can't turn back the clock to right old wrongs, unfortunately. All we can do is keep repeating the truth and hoping for the best.

Edie

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 5:43PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

mmm, I happen to have Amy Goldman èHeirloom tomato...èbook and this is what she writes:
èMorgage lifterèis a generic term that refers to a set of big old tomatoes, characteristically pink, from central Appalachia. Radiator Charlieôs ML is the best known....
M.C. Byles did not invent the term, commodities that generate extra income for farmers, such as hogs, corn, or beans, have traditionally been labeled èmortgage liftersè
Amy cites article èThe Mortgage lifter: A man and his tomatoè by John Marra for 1994 story for Goldenseal where it says that Bill Estler offered his seeds to grow by local greenhouse and when greenhouse worker Shorty Meadows brought him tray of transplants he said èIôve brought you your mortgage liftersè Bill fell for the name and made it his ownè

&&&&&

I happen to have Amy's book as well, she autographed it and probably b'c I helped her do research for her prior three books. and have know her since about 1990 when she used to drive up to my place near Albany and take home fruits from my plants to save seeds from/

But the Amy of today is not the Amy I once knew and we've had no contact, in many years now/

There are many many errors in her book as others have also pointed out, I'm not going to list them here. Amy had paid researchers who did most of the research and quite simply they goofed in many instances and Amy didn't know any differently so let the goofs stand.

Amy wrote"

(èMorgage lifterèis a generic term that refers to a set of big old tomatoes, characteristically pink, from central Appalachia. Radiator Charlieôs ML is the best known...)

And with the above comment I strongly disagree, Ask youself why she listed so many ML's in her book with the names of the persons who first listed them in the SSE Yearbooks as part of the ML name.

How I wish I could give a link here that confirms what Marra said, but the main point is that the parents of the Estler one are completely different from the others and that's a VERY important point.

I have more to say but I think I'll just tape up my fingers right now. LOL

Carolyn, who did Google using different entry words and only got one hit, pigs, in entering....... mortgage Lifter refers to what plants and animals..

Here is a link that might be useful: Google Search

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 5:51PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
fusion_power

Nice to see you posting Edie. I hope you got some fresh seed from your Estler's Mortgage Lifters!

DarJones

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 9:48PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheltieche

Carolyn, thanks for clarifying! I was wondering if Estler's ML had different parentage than others or how many varieties people had in prehistoric times when there was no internet...

    Bookmark   October 15, 2013 at 12:29AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ABlindHog(8a Tx Hill Country)

I don't have a dog in the Mortgage Lifter hunt but please allow me to interject that the term Mortgage Lifter has been a common term in agriculture since at least the late 1800s and has been used to refer to both livestock and crops, including:

Mortgage Lifter Oats, which were exhibited at the Universal and International Exposition at Paris in 1878.
EverettâÂÂs Mortgage Lifter Field Corn was in an experiment at the Texas agricultural experiment station in 1895.
In the 1900s dairy cattle were the queens of Mortgage Lifters.
Kansas Mortgage Lifter Wheat is mentioned in a 1904 Ohio agricultural experiment station bulletin.
Orpington chickens where advertised as Mortgage Lifters in The Country Gentleman in 1911.
During the 1920s hogs in general and Berkshire hogs specifically were referred to as Mortgage Lifters.
Perhaps most famously DeKalb seed corn's "winged ear" logo first made its debut in 1936, appearing in an ad in Prairie Farmer Magazine with the slogan, "DeKalb Quality Hybrids Will Be Your Mortgage Lifter."

Most of these and many more pre-date Mortgage Lifter Tomatoes of any variety.
Mike

    Bookmark   October 15, 2013 at 2:11AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

OK, OK, I didn't look long enough to find all the other Mortgage Lifter animals and crops,LOL,so I've learned something too.

But we're speaking of tomatoes here, aren't we, and how there are many versions Ided by the individual names associated with almost all of them.

And all but one of them, the Estler one,have the same parents that stem from Radiator Charlies initial one, the Estler one having different parents.

And so it goes.(smile)

Thanks Mike,

Carolyn

    Bookmark   October 15, 2013 at 8:09AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

It does not mater who was first. The two are different tomatoes. Radiator Charlies is a BIG beef steak. Then the biography of Mr. Estler Says he was born in 1884 and E.ML was introduced in 1922. That put Mr.. Estler at about 37 years of age. And We don't know how long did it take him to develop and stabilize it.

Radiator Charly is said to be born in 1874 and introduced his tomato around 1930, i.e, at the age of 56. It has also been said that he developed an orthodox method that shows his high level of IQ. Apparantly, he never gave a name to his tomato but hen aske about paying his mortgage of of the renues, he mentioned, he bough his house fo $6000 and payed off most of by revenues from sales of plants and seeds. It has been said that people drove couple of hundred miles to buy seedlings from him. This further shows that he was well known. He died in early 1970s.

P.S.
I have never before grown his ML, but I will next year.

This post was edited by seysonn on Wed, Oct 16, 13 at 4:58

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 4:11AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheltieche

Estlerôs is coming my way from Heritage Harvest and will be in very tough company of some serious contenders for next year.
Yes, at least you have history. I am still trying to figure out where famous black presumably russian tomatoes came from...
I know Tatiana tried to ask on some tomato russian forums and one person answered she has grown Black prince since about 1980 and one mentioned a book of 1968 circa on tomatoes where Tsygan- Gypsy in noted but other than that we still in the dark...LOL

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 10:48AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ediej1209(5 N Central OH)

Dar, we only got enough ML chunks (cutting around the bad parts) to make a couple of salads, we could not salvage any for seeds due to gray mold from the unrelenting rain we got in early summer. I cried and cried the day we ripped all the plants out of the ground and burned them :(

Seysonn, I have a picture of my grandfather holding Estler's MLs that are at least twice the size of those in that picture. And that was/is not uncommon - Estler's are known for their size, taste and production. I will have to see if I can find that picture. I'm pretty sure I posted it once before. Yes, it took him a few years to stabilize his, he started working on them before my Dad was born, and that was in 1919.

Edie

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 1:33PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bigpinks

I keep swearing to learn how to post pics and I will soon(I hope). Nothing wrong with the the fruit in the above pic but I do get larger Estlers than those and the avg is that good or better and a more globe, uniformed shape. Largest so far since I bought Paula Deen scales was 37 ounces and 5-6 inches in diameter. I sucker to 1-2 or three stems and get prob eight-12 tomatoes from a plant. Grow in improved clay soil where I have gardened since 1976. I have been deep plowing in April, then tilling in bagged manure and 6-10-10 ferilizer. I also get two pond yed/yellow tomatoes. But Estlers will always be my favorie. Cherokee Purple being a close second.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 2:04PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Estlerôs is coming my way from Heritage Harvest and will be in very tough company of some serious contenders for next year.

$$$$$$

Hmmmm. You are in IL as I recall and Hertiage Harvest is in Canada and has been very strict in NOT sending seeds to the US.'So what did you say or do to persuade them to send you seeds? LOL

I know that there are many others who would like to know your secret to get them to send from Canada to the US. ( smile)

Carolyn

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 2:25PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ediej1209(5 N Central OH)

I thought I had a copy of the picture used in the Goldenseal article, but I don't, darn it. I do have this one of my Grandfather and one of my cousins with a few of his plants, this probably was back in the early 50's.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 9:56PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
cbadcali

Good heavens Ediej1290. That "plant" looks like a tree. I grew Estler's this past season and was mighty impressed. Lovely tomato. Long story on getting the seeds, but I did finally get the correct one. Thanks for sharing your family story. Love the picture. Mary

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 10:59PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
sheltieche

Wow, heck of tomato! Beautiful memories!
Carolyn, re seeds from Canada...where is will there is way, my seeds are making detour to Canadian addy and thanks to a kind GW member traveling to its final destination later on. The company had some really interesting varieties including 2 Russian èexclusivesè which may or may not be but am interested to see... Yagodka, Sara Black, Prudence Purple and few others going to have fine company with load of Russian tomatoes I got from Tanya.

    Bookmark   October 17, 2013 at 6:12PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
roper2008 (7b)

Love that picture. Hopefully one day we can get
the Estler's that edie has circulated around the
tomato forums, so we can all try this tomato.

    Bookmark   October 17, 2013 at 7:54PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gravdigr

does anyone have the estlers ml seed? Also would like to get your view on growing these in zone9. I previously have grown mortgage lifters (burpee seed) but weren't nearly as abundant as the estlers might be thnx

    Bookmark   January 27, 2015 at 1:55PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

Now My Story:

I wanted to grow both RC and E. Mortgage lifter. Last year I bought a RC ML ( a Bonnie product). I was absolutely disappointed.

Now I hear a lot that E ML is better. Then I ask : How come it is not popular and seeds are hard to come by ? I really wanted to grow it IF seeds or plants were readily available.
I am done with RC ML.

Seysonn

    Bookmark   January 27, 2015 at 3:36PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
smithmal

I only know of two MLs:

1. Radiator Charlie
2. Estler's

If there are others, I love to know their IDs.

I received some ML seeds from the Ohio Heirloom Seed Company last year and grew out a miniature stunted version of ML (4 -6 oz fruits). I was, to say the least, extremely disappointed.

The information on the OHSC site references "Radiator Charlie" in the description, so I'm assuming the variety I grew was RC (see link).

I know that others have also grown out ML and gotten a miniature version of the tomato. Not sure what's going on there (maybe a cross pollination event with the OHSC seeds?).

But if anyone has a better source for ML I'd be interested. I also have some from a seed swap, but you know how dubious those seeds can be at times....

Here is a link that might be useful: ML seeds (Ohio Heirloom Seed Company)

    Bookmark   January 27, 2015 at 7:00PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
larryw(z6Ohio)

I see where I posted back in 2013 that I had some older seeds.
Now they are two years older than they were in 2013, but I still have about 50 seeds dating from 2000. They have been in the freezer since then so I think maybe 50% should germinate.

If anybody wants some I'll send 6 seeds for a SASE. Just email me and we can make arrangements.

I think I might give them a go this year just to refresh my seed and see how they do.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2015 at 11:46AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
keith100_gw

Larryw , thank you for the generous offer . I have emailed you , thank you in advance. Been looking for Estlers Mortgage Lifter for two years now
Keith

    Bookmark   January 29, 2015 at 10:31AM
Sign Up to comment
More Discussions
Has Anybody Grown This Tomato ?
I was in HD looking for Big Beef seeds. But they did...
Seysonn_ 7b-WA/HZ1
You people are a bad influence
I went and bought seeds for mortgage lifter, big beef...
carriehelene
Which tomato would you grow?
Out of the seeds I have, which would you grow two of?...
shijitake
topping off tomato plants?
My heirloom tomato plants are usually tall and robust...
blaferby
Supermarket Tomatoes Plants II
Here we go again. I have started 8 more seedlings for...
garf_gw
© 2015 Houzz Inc. Houzz® The new way to design your home™