It just could be that this debate will be the deciding factor in the election. Surely we think alike on this matter...
You don't think lines have already been drawn in the sand? You think there are still that many 'undecideds' out there? I don't.
Polls show otherwise...
Anyone undecided at this point hadn't been paying attention.
And there are plenty who haven't been paying attention and/or who are flat out sick of it.
Well I surely can sympathize with the flat out sick part!
Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 7:00
Anyone undecided at this point hadn't been paying attention.
I hear that Romney is gaining votes with women.....I still say it's the looks, not his policies.
What SELF-RESPECTING woman would vote for the R & R ticket, seriously?
Obama had better bring his A game or he might be toast...
I hear that Romney is gaining votes with women..
Honestly, not sure I believe anything any more. The Romney team has proven they are willing to say anything and some portion of the people will believe it and not bother to check the facts.
It all points to an extremely sad state in our country where people think that our President actually wants to do harm to our country. Unbelievable.
The divisiveness is unbelievable. It's hard to believe the US can go on with such hate inside not to mention the greed in top business circles. Add to that the short attention span of the general public that thinks only about what's funny on the internet, when they can get a new phone, what Snooki's doing, or those cute boots .....
Obama had better bring his A game
I completely agree with this. I've been saying this since the last debate.
If you think the debate could not change people's minds you have not been paying attention to the polls since the last debate. Prior to that debate, Obama had what looked like an insurmountable lead. It is now almost even.
The lines may be drawn in the sand here. But, obviously not in the rest of America.
Don't believe me, read Nate Silver's blog.
I agree with notto. I do not understand how any woman can vote for the current Republican party.
Here is a link that might be useful: 538
Will be at work! Complaints have already been filed against Candy Crowley by both campaigns.
The debates are prolonged infomercials that inform the true believers of what they already know & bring to the surface the votes of pretend non commited
Psyched and ready for the debate tonight. I believe Obama can bring it home.
I agree how any woman can vote for R&R is a mystery. But I do not understand how a woman can stay with a man that abuses her but it happens. There are weak women out there.
If Obama does ONE iota better than last time we'll all be hearing how he pommeled Romney. If Romney hesitates ONE time, we'll hear how he's "lost his mojo."
It's all spin.
I will say that the pressure is on Obama--he's been accustomed to being worshipped by his fans and supporters and as president, people tend to defer to him.
Romney is the first person that has publicly challenged Obama with his failures--the media sure won't do it--they have propped him up since before his election.
Obama has no plan for the next four years or no explanation for the last four years other than to try to scare people about Romney.
A lot of people have fallen for this; I hope that enough who have not fallen for it have taken a second look at Romney and decided the misrepresentation of Romney by Team Obama was all politics, smoke and mirrors.
I think this election will be unbelievably close if nothing much changes, no major upsets, and could go either way.
I don't get excited if Obama flubs like last time (actually, I was shocked, and it occurred to me, THIS IS INDEED what has been running our country for four years?) and I don't despair if Romney flubs, either.
It's an election.
I would say it's not the end of the world, but it could be the beginning of the end.
When I pray, I do not pray for Romney to win.
I pray for God's will.
If Obama wins, I do not know if it is God's will, if Romney wins, I do not know if it is God's will, maybe God doesn't care or has a hand in it.
But I pray for His will.
Perhaps we need four more years of Obama for some reason--to make this country finally turn around and do the right things. Perhaps electing Romney is our last chance to turn around and do the right thing--which is what I believe.
That's why I'm not worried about the election or the debates. It will all work out like it is supposed to.
I hope everyone has their ducks in a row.
God's will? Are you kidding ... there are lot more things that I wish He'd control other than this!
The devil's in the details.
"What SELF-RESPECTING woman would vote for the R & R ticket, seriously?"
Women who were raised to be happy, optimistic, responsible, respectful, productive, thoughtful, grateful, and proud to be Americans. Pretty much everybody I know.
Tonight I expect to see Romney as the upbeat, smart, confident, disciplined professional he is.
I expect Obama to try, and again fail, to play the same part. He's simply unequipped emotionally, morally and professionally to play that part when he's standing next to the real thing.
Throw in Obama's permanent chip on-the-shoulder, his endless list of "grievances" and scores to be "settled" (against successful Americans and the country itself) and I expect Obama's performance tonight to be marked with the anger and bitterness that has always fermented at his core.
Obama built his career by nurturing dependency and a sense of entitlement.
Romney built his career by nurturing talent and strength.
Obama has been a relentless scolder in chief, which is ONLY good if you think America deserves to be trashed.
My guess is America has had more than enough of that. My guess is that Americans finally understand America does not need a social worker. America needs a president with private sector experience, and one who is unequivocally proud to be an American.
I hope he asks Romney about the investigation.
Today's Democracy Now program was in large part about how controlled and limited the debate process is. It was a real eye opener for me ... how narrow and really anti-informational the rules both parties put into place are, and how hard they worked to gain control of the debate process to make it this meaningless (the League of Women Voters use to handle it, and it wasn't like this) for voters who aren't aware that what should be a useful tool for them is really a sham. And the fakest of all possible formats is the "town hall meeting" where they get everything set up in advance and have no spontanaeity or honesty at all in the process since the 80s, when after George H Bush stumbled on an answer, both parties decided letting thier candidates field real questions, from real people, in real time, was too risky to contemplate.
So, having said that, no, not psyched about the debate anymore.
The only usefulness I can contemplate for it is perhaps as a drinking game ...
"Obama built his career by nurturing dependency and a sense of entitlement.
Obama has been a relentless scolder in chief, which is ONLY good if you think America deserves to be trashed."
Nik, you have outlined very succinctly the differences in these candidates--those statements are the election choice we have--distilled.
I'm as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof. Unfortunately there are people out there with the attention span of a fruit fly and one debate can change their thinking, even when it's been shown that Romney lied during that debate and deviated far from what his previous stance has been.
I don't drink but I may have to have a beer to calm the jitters....
Really? I don't get jittery enough about anything to need alcohol.
I've never had a beer other than to use it to make beer bread.
Well, enjoy your beer tonight!
It shouldn't really take a debate to decide... not since we already know what the two major platforms consist of.
I've never baked beer bread, so I guess that makes us even... like it matters one way or another... huh?
No it doesn't matter, Jodik. You are right about that.
If you've never baked beer bread, I'd bet you'd love it--my favorite easy recipe to share:
1 C self rising flour
1/2 C sugar
1 beer (any brand of beer but NOT LITE BEER)
Mix those four ingredients, pour into baking loaf pan that has been sprayed with cooking spray.
Pour 1/2 stick of melted butter on top, sprinkle with fresh parmesan cheese, fresh snipped rosemary, dried herbs, or cheddar cheese and jalapenos--whatever you desire.
Bake in preheated oven at 350 for 40-50 minutes until probe comes clean.
It is wonderful with soups on cold evenings and great as toast in the morning.
Now, back to the debate.
Maybe we could all eat soup and beer bread tonight together but I don't know who would be standing in the morning!
I'm watching "Murder She Wrote" followed by "Downton Abbey".
I seriously can no longer bear to hear either man speak...
You know, the baseball playoffs are happening. Just saying...
But, I will most likely be watching the debate while following the baseball game on my iPhone (go Detroit! hey, Joe stop throwing stuff at me! :-) )
I'm looking forward to it. No grandchildren competing for my attention tonight.
I hope our President comes across better than he did last time. He'll be walking through a minefield - how to be polite to the audience presenting questions and yet forceful enough getting his points across and rebutting Romney.
Might be a good salad, soup, popcorn and beer night.
I hope y'all are equally entertained.
I will be watching with bated breath alone. I will not go to Obama HQ's again for pizza and snacks. I may go down after the debate and get their take on it. Half way thru the last one I was yelling at the set for Obama to not be the polite even tempered guy he is and start bringing up Romney's Bain and MA experiences , flips ,and lies.
I will be watching on MSNBC because they are fair and balanced. Last time they screamed at Obama for phoning it in, while I'm guessing Fox would declare Romney the winner even if he repeated his 47% speech which I'm sure Obama will mention tonight (like he didn't and should've the last time)
Obama wasn't polite last debate, he was disinterested and intellectually impotent--at least for the debate.
Obama doesn't need any strategy to deal with Romney or the venue--he needs to explain his failures of the last four years and explain his plans to do in the next term what he didn't do this term, and explain the massive debt he has left our children and grandchildren!
Except he didn't create the debt to any significant level...the previous 8 years of Republican "rule" did...and that's the truth.
Its really sad when no one can predict what a President
is going to bring to the table.
I think it proves no one REALLY knew him at all.
I have heard so many speak so many times (Obama fans)about
Obama, like they have the inside scoop on who he is, what
he thinks and why he thinks it.
I have even heard comments (fans) voicing what he feels!
Who would have thought in a million years he would have
sent his suit to the first debate and left his body at home?
I wouldn't have. Just going by his track record, he gives the
impression he loves being "ON" screen. on stage,
being looked at.
This is going to be interesting .
Stay tuned to tonight's debate. Obama had an off night. It won't happen again. Intellectually he is above Romney in spades.
Something my son said resonated with me....
He was commenting on the Presidents abysmal performance at the first debate. He said that Romney only has debates, campaigning and fund raising on his mind. President Obama has all that and the responsibility of being the President. He wondered, given how totally out of character Obama was, that perhaps there was some big stuff going on that was on his mind and distracting him.....dunno but I do think it is fair to say Romney has only one thing to do...not so of the President.
chase had you brought up your son's thought on the debate
before on another thread or was that another poster?
If so, I think it was discussed and we think he just wasn't prepared.
Lots of excuses were given for his lack of involvment
and we decided it couldn't have been anything other than he wasn't prepared.
Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 14:26
Stay tuned to tonight's debate. Obama had an off night.
Are you typing that with a straight face?
Obama's conduct at that debate was an "off night?"
Obana has had an "off" tenure as president!
The mean never met an excuse or blame he didn't like or use for his failures.
He was impotent to even take up for himself at that debate--because he HAD NO defense.
That isn't an "off night" that's not having an answer to THE TRUTH about his failures.
I don't think there have been any "undecided" voters out there - only those "undecided" who, if they actually are, are too stupid to vote in the first place (so please don't) -
or, more than likely, those who don't want to take the trouble to vote who perhaps will be inspired to do just that and vote (or not) due to this debate.
Lots of the latter, I suspect.
Besides this debate there remains a third debate to go.
Lots can happen between now and then - nothing is a sure thing until the votes have been counted.
I can't watch, have something we must attend tonight -but the DVR is my friend and I will use it - plus about 20 minutes of the remarks afterwards.
My real interest in the aftermath of the debates will be about four days later - watch for the bounce or the absence of a bounce for either/ both parties.
I doubt that barring anything volcanic in nature, any actual voter will change his vote despite who wins or loses the debate. Those who are determined to vote have decided and will vote accordingly - and no debate will change their minds.
It's those who don't want to wait in line or take time out of their ever so important day that the parties are courting right now, I'm convinced of it.
chase had you brought up your son's thought on the debate
before on another thread or was that another poster?
If so, I think it was discussed and we think he just wasn't prepared.
Well, there you have it, chase. The resident intellect here has declared that was not the case. "WE", whoever we is, decided that was not the case. Therefore, it couldn't possibly be that the President of the US was distracted by everything that is going on in world.
I actually thought the exact same thing during the debate. I wondered if there was something going on in the world that we will never know about.
Who is "we"....?
Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 14:51
I agree--not with the cynicism, but with the notion that "it couldn't possibly be that the President of the US was distracted by everything that is going on in (sic) world."
Obama certainly didn't let the murder of Ambassador Stevens and three other citizens, and our burning embassy, distract him from his journey to Las Vegas to schmooze with supporters at a fundraiser for his reelection campaign.
Nope--if that pre signaled terrorist attack on 9-11, 2012 didn't distract him from raising in money in Sin City, I don't think he could have been distracted at the debate.
Your assuming that he knew that was the case at the point in time that he traveled. Not sure how you know that but have at it.
Oh, you mean it was okay if Barack Obama flew out to Vegas to raise money for his reelection if he was under the impression that it was a just a garden variety murder of our Ambassador and an everyday inferno of our embassy on September 11th?
Sorta like Bush was distracted when he spent the summer of 01 in Texas while plots were ignored that killed 3000 of our people? The embassy tragedy is being played out by the GOP because they have nothing else.
No. I haven't watched a political debate or speech in many, many, many years. Not since Kennedy's Inaugural Address, and I was there that day.
Oh, I think I watched Nixon's resignation speech, too.
The resident intellect knows BS excuses for a president
when she hears them and sees them. :)
You will believe what you want and nothing I can say will do anything except give you an opportunity to say more of the same and I'm not inclined to do that.
Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 16, 12 at 15:19
Bush is no longer president--newflash.
At the very least, you'd think Barack Obama would by now have a heads up and not want to repeat mistakes of others.
The "embassy tragedy" is being "played up" because this administration has had so many different stories, been caught in lies, and our ambassador and three others are dead and Barack Obama flew out to Las Vegas to a fundraiser instead of getting answers.
We still have no answers over a month later--only proven lies, misrepresentations, and now Hilary Clinton saying, "it's my fault."
Regardless of politics, the public has a RIGHT to KNOW what happened.
And Mitt Romney does indeed, "have more."
We saw it compared to what Barack Obama brought to the table at the last debate.
I hope President Obama asks Governor Romney how many jobs he's created in the last 10 years, what with making 20-odd million a year at a 14% tax rate.
what with making 20-odd million a year at a 14% tax rate.
What does that have to do with anything?
It's the law.
I hope the tax code is restructured where everyone has to shoulder some burden.
For right now, Romney is complying the law, JUST EXACTLY LIKE THOSE that do not contribute one thin dime to the federal coffers but complain that those that shoulder the burden of paying taxes do not pay ENOUGH to suit them.
"Romney built his career by nurturing talent and strength."
Romney built his career & fortune leveraging companies & declaring that he was not a resident when he was a resident!
It was always a clerical error!
Shells within shells within shells.
He disavowed his shell in Bermuda !
"The problem with Romney's claim? The Bermuda corporation Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors was registered in 1997 and Romney was listed as the "the sole shareholder, a director, and president" of the corporation. The Bermuda corporation was under his personal ownership until it was transferred into a blind trust in his wife's name the day before he was sworn in as governor, possibly to avoid disclosure. In fact, the one full tax return Romney did release shows that he directly owned the company as recently in 2010 and it was not held in his trust.
Mitt Romney's continued dishonesty on his investments in offshore tax havens and corporations raises serious questions about why he won't release his tax returns. Only a release of additional tax returns will allow us to see if Romney avoided U.S. taxes with his offshore holdings."
We also have his quote attacking Ted Kennedy's claims for blind trust. His own words...“The blind trust is an age-old ruse.”
But just how blind are such trusts, anyway? In Romney’s case, apparently not quite blinkered enough to keep his trustee"who is also his personal lawyer and longtime friend Bradford Malt"from investing more than $10 million of Romney’s money in an investment fund managed by Romney’s son Tagg.
The mans a world wide financial scoundrel ask any ITALIAN investor!
Bloomberg old news
"That’s because Bain Capital, under Romney as chief executive officer, made about $1 billion in a leveraged buyout 12 years ago that remains controversial in Italy to this day. Bain was part of a group that bought a telephone-directory company from the Italian government and then sold it about two years later, at the peak of the technology bubble, for about 25 times what it paid.
Bain funneled profits through subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a common corporate strategy for avoiding income taxes in other European countries, according to documents reviewed by Bloomberg News. The buyer, Italy’s biggest telephone company, now has a total market value less than what it paid Bain and other investors for the directory business. "
The mythology doesn't match the facts of his life Demi!
I'll be flipping back and forth between the debate and my favorite show Dead Like Me.
But Demi, the job creators need, no NEED! those really low tax rates on the millions they make so they can create jobs. So its an entirely reasonable question to ask how many jobs they create with those really, really low rates.
And given they want to do away with capital gains and dividend taxes completely, so even more jobs would be created, meaning Romney (following Ryan budget) would't pay a dime in taxes. Even Romney realizes that running on a platform that lets him earn all his money tax free is a bit much.
But not for the Ryan budget that the house republicans voted for, lock step.
Romney Warned Against Pointing Fingers At Bush Administration After 9/11 Attacks
Yes, the same Mitt Romney that is now pointing fingers at the Obama Administration.
So, please stop with the Romney has the right to know BS.
The Romney campaign has been hard at work attempting to blame President Obama for the terrorist attack that killed Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans. Lead foreign policy adviser Rich Williamson claimed the attack wouldn't have happened in a Romney administration and Vice Presidential candidate Paul Ryan chalked it up to the "broader problem" of the current administration "projecting weakness."
But at least one prominent Republican would object to the GOP's efforts to politicize terrorism and his name is Gov. Mitt Romney.
During a 2004 National Press Club luncheon, Romney was asked to address the 9/11 Commission's finding of serious intelligence failures on the part of the US government in the run-up to the attacks. He responded that it is easy, but ultimately not particularly helpful, to blame different parts of the government for the attack:
It's very easy, it is extraordinarily easy to point fingers and say, 'Why, this part of government knew this and it didn't tell that part.' And, 'These people here haven't learned that.' Well, the reason those barriers exist is for legitimate purpose in a world that was pre-September 11th. And judging our intelligence by post- September 11th conditions is something we have to do carefully. We do that to help us get better, and to the extent we find criticism in the kind of work that I've had to do and others are doing, it should be focused on how we can make ourselves more effective in the post-9/11 world. But trying to judge what happened pre-9/11 by post-9/11 knowledge is probably not terribly fruitful.
Romney's approach was consistent with then-President Bush's, who when asked whether he should apologize for his administration's failure to prevent 9/11, said simply "The person responsible for the attacks was Osama bin Laden." Former National Security Adviser and Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice told the 9/11 Commission something similar, saying "I know that there was no single thing that might have prevented that attack...I believe that the absence of light, so to speak, on what was going on inside the country, the inability to connect the dots, was really structural." Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, by contrast, took a more concrete approach to accountability this Monday, saying "I take responsibility [for Benghazi]. I'm in charge of the State Department's 60,000-plus people all over the world, 275 posts."
While the Romney campaign has been routinely accusing the administration of deliberately misleading Americans on Libya, a detailed timeline of the events suggests that isn't the case.
Here is a link that might be useful: Source
"Really? I don't get jittery enough about anything to need alcohol. I've never had a beer other than to use it to make beer bread. Well, enjoy your beer tonight!"
demi, allow me to congratulate you on your ability to handle anything the world may throw at you without the aid of alcohol. Congratulations also on your teetotalism. I can't really congratulate you on not understanding that my last sentence was tongue-in-cheek.
I'm still wondering why you posted this piece of sanctimonious silliness in answer to a post of mine that required no answer at all. Was it just to make me look inferior to you? Why would you even bother?
"Nik, you have outlined very succinctly the differences in these candidates--those statements are the election choice we have--distilled."
Thank you, Demi. What a nice thing to say!
Thanks TxanGoddess for posting the DN! link. I was already a bit cynical and that told me my cynicism was not unfounded. Fortunately, Mike Malloy broadcasts the debates and offers a lot of commentary during the debate, so I'll listen to his coverage again.
I'll get out work at 9 but the Yankees are playing Detroit! I think that actually wins tonight I'm sure I'll hear a tortuous explanation between this forum MSNBC, The Guardian, CNN, AlJazeera, WND (they are the most fun)
Go Yankees! We saw the Yankees-Twins game here last month. I cheered for both sides.
I will not watch the debate but instead I will watch baseball. My opinion is that Romney, as a corporate jock/CEO is far more skilled than Obama when it comes to responding on his feet with short comments delivered with conviction, no matter how truthful or untruthful his opinions are. Romney is a professional liar with 25 years of experience in business bullcrapping people. Obama proved that he was not up to the challenge of calling Romney out on his lies and flip-flops.
I think that Romney will win the election and that these debates will prove decisive in riling up the GOP base. Unfortunately that will mark the end for a lot of peoples hopes, dreams and for many , their lives.
My biggest concern is the remote possibility that Obama loses the popular vote but wins the Electoral College, just like Bush did. Democrats are little kitties who basically laid down when Bush was selected President after losing by over a half of a MILLION votes.
Imagine, just imagine how wacko Foxbox Republicans would react if President Obama, the fellow they refused to acknowledge as a legitimate President after the last election, loses the popular vote and is selected by the Electoral College?
Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, a/k/a/ the political hate channel, will call for anarchy. The Tbaggers will threaten assassination and begin preparation for survival once the black helicopters land on their property to take their guns and Bibles.
God, I pray that somehow President Obama is re-elected in a convincing manner so that these haters can be marginalized for another 4 years. I just don't see that happening without divine intervention though, because hatred will drive a record numbers of Republicans to the polls.
RE: Are you psyched up for tonight?
Yes; yes I am. We'll be eating bean soup and washing the truly impressive parsnips I pulled today.
Detroit 1 Yankees 0, 5th inning.
hericles, just remember, it's not over until it's over. The president seems to be doing fine in this debate tonight, and there is one more to go after this. There is still time for the Democrats to show what Romney is all about. People who are voting early are predominantly voting for President Obama at this point. The shameful voter fraud that the Republicans have engaged in is becoming known. I feel very confident that President Obama will win, because Romney's platform takes away so many rights, especially for women. His extremely conservative stance is frightening to a large part of the population, and would bring us back into the last century.
Hang in there, I really think it's going to be all right.
I was not disappointed. I wish someone had poised a question about how their policies would affect the environment - my constant, overriding concern. All-in-all, a good debate.
I'm full of food, leftovers are in the fridge, cans are crushed for recycling.
The postmortem on the walking trail tomorrow will be fun and somewhat heated, I'm sure.
Good night all.
Yes, environment, climate control ... some questions never get asked.
Heri..Baseball over Obama? You missed a good one. He's baaaaack.
NO, Obama's not back, he just did not appear comatose as he did two weeks ago.
As I noted previously, ANY improvement by Obama would be considered a "win" and I was right.
Romney is consistent and brought a good "performance" as always.
I happen to think consistency in attentiveness and participation in the debate is a desirable quality in a presidential candidate.
There were no explanations from Barack Obama about his failures the last four years and no plan for the next other than "don't elect Mitt and we can't quit now."
If the last four years were his A game I want no part of the next four years.