Romney, the CHAMELION. Obama, the Impotent.

nottoOctober 4, 2012

Not taking any sides, this is how I saw the Debate, which to me is telling through BODY language, mannerism, and repetition of what the candidates say during their stomp speaches etc. Suffice to say that I am very good at watching and reading people. You have to watch not just listen. Words, tone and mannerism MUST match.

WHO gave hell gave Obama XANAX last night? lol

WHO was/IS the actual Romney?

IF I were an uneducated voter, I'd give "the win" to Romney right away....BUT, WAIT!

I didn't see the first debate as win or lose. I paid attention to DETAILS, manner of speach, sincerity (not that politicians are sincere), and repetition of WHAT each party truly stands for. Here's what I saw:

1)Romney (the Chameleon). How artfully "they" coached him to say the right things, you know-the middle of the road, where MOST Americans are. GONE, POOF was the 1% fat cats. GONE were the 47%. He even threw in the "disabled " children programs. How sweet. We can ALL hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

Here's my problem:

-SINCERITY. Which person is Romney? The one who talked about cutting taxes for the 1% rich, or the one who is NOT going to do it, as he said last night? Which write-offs is he going to cancel?

-TONE of his voice showed me that he LIED:

a)Top 1%. There is NO way the Reps are going to tax the top 1%.

b)When he said something about helping the poor, the disabled kids, he stumbled, and used a certain, ever-so slightly incongruent tone as to what he was saying. Most probably did not pick it up. I did. THAT tells me from a PSYCHOLOGY point of view that he didn't mean it, so it's probably a BIG lie about helping the disabled.

c)Medicare- A BIG LIE!!! Run, older people, run from the GOP. The qualifying age for vouchers is changing, the story is changing, the plan is changing...ALL for worse.

d)He took credit for working with the Dems in the state of Mass. re healthcare ins. Mr. Romney- the great uniter. Well, my opinion is that IF a Rep is willing to "throw out a bone to the middle class", the Dems vote for it, like crazy, so Romney never had to worry about gridlock from the Dems about healthcare. Show me a strong stance, like giving tax breaks to the top 1%, AGAIN and let's see IF Dems will vote with you. Just sayin.

2)Obama-was impotent, on Xanax last night. I'm sure someone advised him to be laid back, and presidential. He took it ot the Nth power.

-I will say this: Although he was not accurate 100% (none of them are. Some because they are trying to prove a point, others because they lie (Romney). Obama didn't seem to lie, just on Xanax.) in everything he said, he spoke even keeled, the way things are.

Last night was not about who won or lost, but a contrast of 2 candidates:

1)Romney the coached chameleon, with questionable sincerity.

2)Obama, the impotent, but trying to do the right thing.

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notto

Oops, sorry it's CHAMELEON, not chamelion.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 9:20AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I do not disagree with most of your take on the night.

I am surprised and I am not surprised. I have never seen the President as an aggressive personality. I am still ticked he did not have Wilson (the one that said you Lie) thrown out of the room.

That said I also agree Romney did a good job of doing what he does best of saying what he feels will work. You have no idea what he will say the next day heck the next hour for that matter.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 9:40AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

No Drama Obama vs Wild Eyed Skitzo

Now which one do I want playing with the nuke football?

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 9:52AM
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jodik_gw

Obama has always been very measured, very calm and steady. This isn't anything new, and should have been expected. If we're going to imagine him on a drug, at least give him the courtesy of imagining a good drug... say he was on VALIUM! Xanax is for little rubber dweebs that don't know their pharmaceuticals very well. ;-)

Someone said it well in another thread when they noted that "Obama is not good at tooting his own horn". He never has been. He's not the type to gloat.

But I will say that body language and demeanor are aspects that should be taken into consideration. They are part of the total context.

Personally, I don't see one debate as changing anything. What we've already witnessed is still part of the total context, and I still have Obama winning based on policy and so much more.

It's not over until the votes are tallied... it's just a major shame that a part of the population are as forgetful as they are impatient.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 9:58AM
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labrea_gw

Again I thought OBAMA was sleepwalking & not prepared for another ROMNEY variation. They aren't flip flops anymore they were sketches without substance now he used each sketch to say well this is what everyone knows I was talking about. He did that quite well. It' just there are extensive video collections that show him creating all these variations only to have them walked back by his campaign workers. That creates a pretty loose frame work to play in but he did that quite well. Lets see if it gives him bounce or makes the undecideds even more wary!

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 10:05AM
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jerzeegirl(9)

It has to be very frustrating when your opponent switches positions every time he opens his mouth. I don't know how you prepare for something like that.

I think both candidates were disturbed by the overhead lights which gave Romney an off-putting squint and which made Obama look downward.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 10:19AM
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jodik_gw

I would have to agree, Jerzee... how DO you prepare when the tableau changes more often than a hooker changes her underwear?! It's gotta be difficult to go into such a thing not knowing which face to expect facing.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 11:44AM
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heri_cles

Another reference to alleged "impotence."

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 12:24PM
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lily316(z5PA)

I also blame Jim Leher for being impotent. He's done these debates for years and YET he allowed Romney to talk right over him a and disregard the rules. I was yelling most of the debate ..telling Obama to stop being polite, get aggressive, stop parsing his words, and fight the lies. I think you'll see a different guy next debate. There's no doubt he's smarter than Romney, but Mitt was coached for weeks and weeks now, and he sounded like a well rehearsed car salesman giving his spiel. .

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 12:27PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"I have never seen the President as an aggressive personality."

LOL! Except for that part where he told supporters "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun!"

And then there's the part where he pushed Obamacare down Americans' throats against their will. He imposed what HE wanted on the American people. That was a dictatorial misuse of power, as aggressive and thuggish as you can get.

Democrats paid in 2010 for Obama's aggression, so it was great when Romney reminded Americans that Barack Obama wasted two years focused on Obamacare, which HE wanted, instead of jobs, which AMERICANS wanted and desperately needed.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 12:33PM
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bird_lover6

"I also blame Jim Leher for being impotent. He's done these debates for years and YET he allowed Romney to talk right over him a and disregard the rules."

Obama spoke for a total of four more minutes than Romney. Had Romney not pushed through, Obama would have spoken a lot longer than Romney, since Leher was unable to "control" the president's time clock, as is pretty common with a sitting president in a debate.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 12:46PM
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notto

Posted by nikoleta (My Page) on Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 12:33

"I have never seen the President as an aggressive personality."
LOL! Except for that part where he told supporters "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun!"

And then there's the part where he pushed Obamacare down Americans' throats against their will. He imposed what HE wanted on the American people. That was a dictatorial misuse of power, as aggressive and thuggish as you can get.

Democrats paid in 2010 for Obama's aggression, so it was great when Romney reminded Americans that Barack Obama wasted two years focused on Obamacare, which HE wanted, instead of jobs, which AMERICANS wanted and desperately needed.

*****************************************************
Hold on NIK, to be fair, some of the Dems, including ME, the Independent, wanted a SINGLE-PAYOR system. The passed Obamacare is the watered down GOP version. I hope YOU understand that and aren't just chanting the GOP spin.

GOP has GRIDLOCKED him on everything, including creating jobs. THOSE ARE THE FACTS. I'm in healthcare and know what I'm talking about. TG, I have insurance, so I'm objective, but I do want to see a better world.

What the DEms did wrong was the stupid, mind-boggling stimulus packages- cash for clunkers, solar energy. They failed to do their homework. I don't know if it was ignorance, or haste, trying to get the economy going by acting impulsively and not looking 30 years ahead.

Oh but I'm soooo not sold on Romney, the liar.

IF he hadn't watched the REAGAN TAPES, as Fox TV told him to, he would have lost last night. Gotta give him credit for being SLY ;)
Unfortunately for R & R, their flip flopping doesn't work on everyone. The election remains to be seen.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 12:47PM
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jillinnj

notto - I agree with your assessment.

I was disappointed in Obama that he did not go after Romney more. It doesn't have to be with a crazed look in one's eye as Romney has, but he should have pointed out that what Romney was saying was NOT what he has been saying. Well, he did kind of do that once. He made a comment something like "well after months of campaining on this issue, 5 weeks before the election, it's a big never mind". That made me laugh.

I guess he was trying to act Presidential, and he did. But he needs to point out the lies. He did not do a good job of that. He did seem extremely tired, didn't he? His speech was not as fluid as it usually is.

The fact checkers are doing a good job of pointing out the lies Romney told. So, that's good. Question is how many undecideds are actually checking out the facts?

Strangely, I saw this article this morning (it's from yesterday and was linked in Nate Silver's post last night). Says that undecideds were the least likely to watch the debate. I find that so strange! Link below.

And, notto, nice try getting nik to see the facts. Lots of people have been trying with no luck at all. Perhaps you will get through...

Here is a link that might be useful: Undecideds weren't going to watch

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 1:09PM
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jodik_gw

Lily, I think by the next debate that Romney will crack under the pressure and show us a side he doesn't mean to show... while Obama will maintain that cool, calm exterior and keep plodding through the information.

A big part of being an effective leader is maintaining your calm, and not allowing exterior issues to get under your skin. We don't need or want a reactionary President... we need one that can think under pressure, and take some time making decisions based upon the facts, and what's right for the entire nation, and the rest of the world.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 1:38PM
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maggie2094

That confirms my belief that "undecideds" are merely uniformed voters.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 1:45PM
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adoptedbyhounds

"The passed Obamacare is the watered down GOP version."

If only that had been what the American people wanted!

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 2:38PM
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esh_ga

Are you saying the people didn't want the GOP version either?

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 3:16PM
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notto

Posted by nikoleta (My Page) on Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 14:38

"The passed Obamacare is the watered down GOP version."
If only that had been what the American people wanted!
*************************************************

Well, where did you get your information from about healthcare, and the insurances? The Fox news?

IF you understood how healthcare works, you would def want a single-payor system-meaning by the people, for the people, instead of private, for profit insurances. I want to see healthcare costs come down, because I know that its being run like a business. Nurses, techs work on you feeling worse than you do, giving you their last bit of energy. The administration expects them to come in and work without brakes or lunches...
I work in healthcare and I have had healthcare provided to me, so I know all the not so nice things behind the scenes. I will not fall for the politician's FORKED TONGUE, as Romney's on healthcare.

I will tell you this: IF you are unfortunate and get sick, you may not have enough assets to cover your healthcare costs. Once a person gets close to fifty, look out because NATURE takes over. I don't care how healthy of a life you led, how thin you were... so don't think you are immuned, maybe just lucky, so far.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 3:31PM
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greatgollymolly

I do not want the government telling me how and when I can get medical care, no thank you.

Those comments about Obama not being forceful and he's so cool and calm made me laugh. The man is a thug and narcissist and the minute someone questions him or his authority they are met with stern, cold responses, my favorite being "I won the election." Then he does that half hearted grin like he's so proud of being a thug.

I hope he does come out swinging at the next debate so watching Romney bury him will be even more fun than last night's butt whooping.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 4:29PM
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david52 Zone 6

I do not want the government telling me how and when I can get medical care, no thank you.

But private insurance telling you how and when you can get medical care, thats ok?
If you think thats a joke, you must not have had to deal with private insurance companies very often. I'm currently fighting to get my DD some coverage that they've refused, saying she's used up her year's allotment.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 4:49PM
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chase_gw

"I do not want the government telling me how and when I can get medical care"

Will someone ever explain exactly what that means.....what specifically is it that the government will tell you about your health care in terms of "how" and "when"...not just empty words please specifics!

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 4:55PM
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jodik_gw

It means, Chase, that they are just repeating what they've heard on Fox or from Rush... and are not actually interested in investing any time gaining an informative edge. Simple as that.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 5:13PM
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vgkg(Z-7)

If you haven't seen this cnn interview (4 min you-tube) Newt calls Mitt a liar within the first 20 seconds and is serious about it. I saw it at the time it was live during the primaries and was stunned at Newt's sincerity and evaluation of how Mitt would be a lying prez. Worth the look.

Here is a link that might be useful: Classic, Newt calls Romney a Liar

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 5:15PM
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notto

Posted by greatgollymolly (My Page) on Thu, Oct 4, 12 at 16:29

I do not want the government telling me how and when I can get medical care, no thank you.
********************************************

Again, chanting the GOP garbage.

It seems that the Reps love to repeat SLOGANS, without knowledge.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 5:25PM
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jillinnj

notto - you caught on very quickly!

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 5:31PM
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ENMc

THUG. REPUGnant GOP speak, AKA code for Black person. OMG! THUGS!

Even worse, a THUG in the Oval Office! OMG! OMG! Who does he think he is!

E

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 5:50PM
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labrea_gw

A veritable Cheshire cat that Mit now you see it now you don't!
"The uninformed must improve their deficit, or die."
CC

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 6:28PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Even worse, a THUG in the Oval Office! OMG! OMG! Who does he think he is!

It is a good Democratic get out the vote, I enjoy when the right wing brings out the thug lines.

I notice we are getting more and more lurkers coming out.

The lurkers are watching. Thank you GMM whatelse do you think? I appreciate your help. Because I cannot make this kind of stuff up.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 6:58PM
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carol_in_california

When I was in health care, we seldom took breaks.....and we are immune or not immune.
I retired early due to the large medical clinic being bought my a huge corporation and having no regard for the patients and workers they served.

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 9:59PM
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lily316(z5PA)

Yes, thanks to people like GGM, we rally the Dem troops even more.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 2:42AM
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woodnymph2_gw

On the news this morning was a statement from Al Gore which could rationally explain the seeming lethargy of Obama in the debates. e.g. that the President was having issues adapting to the high altitude in Colorado, having just arrived shortly before the debates. On the other hand, Romney had been in the mountainous area of the state for quite some time, practicing his debate strategy, so had had time to adapt to the altitude. Sounds reasonable to me.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2012 at 12:27PM
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