Is the playing of the national anthem necessary at

tobr24u(z6 RI)November 15, 2012

sporting events? The flap over banning it and then reinstating it at high school hockey games in PA made me think about this. It strikes me that there is so little respect shown for it on so many occasions that it should be dropped. Your thoughts are eagerly anticipated....

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jodik_gw

I don't mind it being played... it's a nice traditional and historical song... I actually like our national anthem. I just don't want to have to salute it by holding my hand over my heart... that's a bit too worship-y for me.

I don't have a problem standing up and offering a little respect for the countries in attendance at sporting events. In MMA or Boxing, there's often more than one or two anthems played depending on where the event is held and where the teams are from. It can seem tedious, but it's respectful. There's nothing wrong with showing a little respect.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 5:28AM
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jmc01

I attend quite a few sporting events and I am thrilled to hear the National anthem(s) played. This year at Olympics events, baseball and football games, I've consciously thought how proud I am to be in a group of up to 70,000+ or so people, all of whom are standing with hands over heart, united in showing respect. United is the key word.

You and I are clearly not at the same sporting events if you feel respect isn't being shown,

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 6:08AM
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heri_cles

The National anthem will never be "banned" at sports events.
It is my own opinion that the decision to play "God Bless America" during the 7th inning intermission of MLB games, is a bit much.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 6:09AM
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jodik_gw

Heri, I've never heard that played... don't they usually play "Take me out to the ball game!" during the 7th inning stretch?

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 6:34AM
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haydayhayday

I hang out at places where the national anthem is played. I can tolerate it. Barely. What I have trouble tolerating is the Nazis berating people who won't stand up and take off their hats. Berating to the point that they drive the people out of the establishment.

Land of the Free.

Hay

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 9:28AM
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jillinnj

Since 9/11/01 most stadiums play "God Bless America" during 7th inning stretch and I agree with heri. A bit much.

I don't mind the national anthem. Tradition.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 9:29AM
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momj47(7A)

I think it's terribly overdone, and not necessary. We do know where we live, after all. I will stand, but that's it. It has become faux patriotism, and is not particularly attractive.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 9:50AM
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Circus Peanut

It makes me squirm.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:01AM
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rob333

I'm with jodik on this one for basebabll. You're supposed to lean way out of the window with your beer mug in hand like Harry Caray. Fun!

Mind, banned? words I'd never put in the same place as the national anthem. It moves me to tears every time I sing it. Why would it be banned? That is ridiculous!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:07AM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

It makes me squirm.

Me too - I hear an echo of Leni Riefenstahl.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:16AM
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david52 Zone 6

At pretty much all our high school sporting events, the high school choir teacher (now part-time due to budget cuts) and her 12 yr old daughter sing the national anthem. Over an obsolete, scratchy, screechy PA system.

The duet hits the high notes. Barely.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:37AM
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Tiffany, purpleinopp GardenWeb, Z8b Opp, AL(8B AL)

The hockey thing in PA that sparked this news story and discussion is odd.

From what I understand, they're trying to save money by making the game shorter by eliminating the singing of this song because they are renting the rink... by the minute?

What I'm left wondering is why is some hockey rink is trying to nickel'n'dime the school like this? Why not just have a set price per game for renting the facility?

Here is a link that might be useful: Yahoo article

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:40AM
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woodnymph2_gw

I'm with circus and nancy. I think it smacks of jingoism und das vaderland. And many in the crowds do not behave respectfully when it is played.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:58AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

When the national anthem (and similar songs) are played at a sporting event, I always find myself wondering what is so darned patriotic about a ball game? Strange pairing of unrelated values.

Unless of course one resurrects that old idea that sporting competitions are peace-time "war games" training the future "soldiers" of America. Don't know if that idea is around still, but I remember when that argument was made during my childhood.

Kate

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 11:12AM
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jodik_gw

Been a long time since I attended a live sporting event... especially baseball.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 12:45PM
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blfenton

In Canada (or at least where I live) we don't play our national anthem to an excess. It isn't played at high school games or high school concerts. When I go to hockey games I do like hearing the anthems for our team and the visiting American team. However I do wonder who we are singing them for. So many of the hockey players are now from European countries that I wonder if it is still necessary to play them. But I guess tradition is tradition.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 12:47PM
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grapeleaves

I'm in the circus, Nancy, Mom and Woodnymph camp.
It smacks of jingoism to me too.
I'm very uncomfortable with it.
We've been going to my grand daughters's swim meets and they open the meet with the national anthem.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 12:51PM
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YogaLady1948

I do not care that they play it or say the Pledge of A~~I just stand respectfully, the same as when prayers are done. I do not put my hand over my heart, not in protest I just do not~~~it is a harmless tradition I respect that.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 1:06PM
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rob333

I think I'm shocked. Americans aren't bonded any more and we are complaining about something that should be universal to every American? I dunno. I guess growing up military and being taught respect for the flag and for all which it stands (even the distasteful opinions for those not in the mainstream), I'm just different. When I was very young, they even played the national anthem before movies started. I couldn't figure out why the rest of the world didn't.

What's wrong with showing patriotism? Sorry, but the folks I'm around take off their hats, stand, with their hands over their heart. And I'm not on a base any more. Regular southern folks at schools and the Nashville Predator games (when they're played) and our farmteam (for the Milwaukee Brewers), the Nashville Sounds. Where is it people are being disrespectful?

When should it be played?

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 1:07PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

For some reason they play our national anthem and the Canadian one(I thought ours was hard)at the beginning of the Highland games here-most people are good for the American one but will start talking during the Canadian. Rude.

I agree that conflating sports with patriotism is odd...even odder is bagpipe playing contests.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 2:21PM
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don_socal

I vote for the Jimi Hendrix version as the required one.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jimi Hendrix - Star Spangled Banner Woodstock 1969

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 2:26PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Bagpipes at sports events? Never heard of it--but I adore bagpipes. I have no objections to bagpipes at sporting events. : )

Kate

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 2:46PM
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lily316(z5PA)

Apparently the ice rinks charge by the hour so here in western PA they want to eliminate the National anthem because it cuts into their time.

I have no opinion. It's always played at my grandson's soccer games. I stand, hand over heart,and sit down. It used to be played during his little league games too.

I have no opinion. Keep it or don't.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 2:57PM
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vgkg(Z-7)

Just cut the playing time in half by jazzing it up to 78 speed.
....showing my age.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 3:36PM
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jon_in_wessex(z8/9 UK)

At international games/matches only, where both teams anthems are played. Except cricket, where a rather special anthem is sung - incredibly moving and patriotic!

Here is a link that might be useful: The Lions of England

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 4:46PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I'm willing to make an exception for The Lion Sleeps Tonight. What a fun time for the crowd!

Kate

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 4:58PM
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terriks

I don't mind the National Anthem being played at sporting events, just spare me the vocal gymnastics of some of the singers!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 5:18PM
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terriks

I don't mind the National Anthem being played at sporting events, just spare me the vocal gymnastics of some of the singers!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 5:19PM
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ann_t

This thread brings back a very nice memory.

We have lived in the USA a couple of times. In fact, our son, was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and actually has dual citizenship. But that is another story.

My husband and I are both baseball fans and love going to games. Back in 2000, we were living in Dunkirk, New York. Within a hour of our home we had access to A Ball(Jamestown, NY, Double A (Erie, PA) and Tripe A (Buffalo, Ny) ballgames.

At the games in Jamestown, a recording of the National Anthem was played over the speaker system. At one of the games, everyone was standing waiting for the anthem to start, it was taking a while to start and then became obvious that there was a problem. All of a sudden, a man jumped on the field and started to sing the anthem and then everyone in the bleachers started to sing along with him. It was really touching.

I love going to ball games where both the US and the Canadian Anthems are played.

~Ann

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 5:26PM
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chase_gw

I love when the National anthems are played, especially if it is a situation where both the US and Canadian anthems are played.

What I can't abide is the disrespectful jerks who keep yapping and yelling and cheering. I also really get annoyed when both anthems are not respected equally.

They do it really well at the Olympics

PS: Oh Canada always brings tears to my eyes when I sing it....and I can even sing the French parts!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 5:38PM
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lily316(z5PA)

I love Oh Canada too and I'm not even Canadian. Brings tears to my eyes. I love when two different countries are playing a sport or the Olympics. National pride then...but a 6 year old's tee ball game?

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 5:51PM
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elvis

I don't see why the national anthem is played at sporting events, unless the game is between two countries; then I think both anthems should be played.

If the USA national anthem IS played, for whatever event, I stand, hand over heart, and face the flag. Oh, I also sing along. If the USA president walks into a venue, I stand for him/her, too. It's a matter of respect, not a worship thing. I would also stand for a governor and the pope. And a just-married couple. And a guest of honor.

Back to the OP: no.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 6:20PM
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agnespuffin

My objection is NOT to the playing of the anthem, it's the singing by a show-off, that is more interested in making it a jazzy, or cute solo.

It should sound patriotic, not like something heard in a bar full of drunks.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 7:19PM
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blfenton

agnespuffin: I agree. For the opening ceremonies at the Olympics in Vancouver, the girl who sang "Oh Canada", Nikki Yanofsky did it in a matter that I thought was insulting. She is a jazz singer and sang it in that form. It meant that the audience, mainly Canadians could not sing along with her. The people of Vancouver were so excited about hosting the games and we couldn't sing our own national anthem. I suspect that was one of the reasons that we wound up taking any and every opportunity to sing it out in the streets during the games.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:45PM
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prairiefox

I always think it is weird when they play the anthem at the start of a dog show. It is considered a sporting event but it still is odd to me.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:58PM
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ann_t

I have to disagree with you blfenton. I really enjoyed Nikki Yanofsky's version of O'Canada.

Ann

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 11:44PM
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elvis

I think I know what Fenton means though. Like Christina Aguilara (I'm a fan), singing at the Super Bowl. She got so carried away with her complicated vocalizations that she forgot the words!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 11:51PM
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labrea_gw

I'm one of those weepers around the Star Spangled Banner very Pavlovian or just a sap for the USA.
I love Jessie Norman's, "La Marseillaise" but Whitney Huston nails our National Anthem.
Jesse gives me goosebumps!

Here is a link that might be useful: Jesse Norman French Bicentennial

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 12:22AM
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david52 Zone 6

I always enjoyed the symbolism/honor of the French having Jessie sing the Marseillaise on the 200th anniversary.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 12:27AM
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lily316(z5PA)

Whitney Houston certainly did a bang up job on the National anthem. Loved it. Call me old fashioned, but I don't like the extremes singers go to show off their range while singing it.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 1:14AM
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jon_in_wessex(z8/9 UK)

It gets a bit complicated over here:

While England does not have an official national anthem, there are many songs which are considered to fill such a role. In most of the national sporting fixtures 'God Save the Queen' is used.

At the Commonwealth Games, Team England uses "Jerusalem" as the victory anthem from 2010 onwards.

At international football matches, England uses "God Save the Queen" as the national anthem.
At international rugby union matches, England uses "God Save the Queen" as the national anthem whilst "Land of Hope and Glory"is the anthem played prior to kick off.
At international rugby league matches, England uses "God Save the Queen" as the national anthem.
At international test cricket matches, England has, since 2003, used "Jerusalem" as its entrance anthem.[2]
At international lacrosse matches, the England Men's team uses "God Save The Queen" and the Women's team uses "Land of Hope and Glory" as the national anthems.

Then of course the Scots, Welsh and Irish have their own anthems, too.

The most popular current choice at public events seems to be 'I Vow to thee my Country'.

Perhaps it goes to show that patriotism isn't necessarily based around one anthem, one flag or one constitution - we don't have one of those, either :)

Best wishes
Jon

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 5:00AM
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jodik_gw

I think it's fine to play the national anthem, and that of a visiting team, before a professional sporting event, or even at a college level event, I suppose... even high school sporting events are okay... but lower academic levels is a little much, I think.

It's kind of like making a spectacle about god or religion at a public sporting event, on camera, and making the entire world watch and listen... there are simply too many belief systems and non-believers, so too many people are either left out, not represented, don't care, or are even offended.

Grabbing the microphone during a post-win interview to praise some entity that not everyone is in line with kind of makes athletes look a little strange, in my opinion.

I have no issue with a moment of silence before an event for a short and silent prayer, if that's an athlete's thing, or a quick moment after a win... but do it privately, please. We don't all want to be converted or hear about some idea that it was a god that made them win. It was skill and team effort that gained that win.

Out of respect, I will stand for anthems... but I won't go beyond that. It reminds me too much of a religious action.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 5:40AM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

I've attended many Detroit Red Wings games with my son and there is RESPECT during the opening ceremony...always....it isn't until after the puck is dropped that the biting, kicking and cussing begins. :)

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 6:53AM
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jmc01

I've been to hundreds of major league baseball games in cities all over this country and have never heard God Bless America played during the 7th inning stretch. That's a new one to me.

Kids are never too young to learn about the national anthem, the words to it or the respect that goes along with it.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 7:02AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I'm with Jodi--reminds me "too much of a religious action" intruding on a secular event--and everyone is forced to participate or at least acknowledge it.

That parallel only goes so far, however. I think what really bothers me is what brushworks noted: "there is RESPECT during the opening ceremony...always....it isn't until after the puck is dropped that the biting, kicking and cussing begins."

To me, the two contradict each other. Why would biting, kicking, and cussing be considered the national way of life that we should all respect? The two just don't fit together, and no one goes to a football game or golf match as a way to show they love their country. They go to find out who will win or lose the game.

The national anthem played at an event honoring the military or at the inauguration of the president of the USA or something like that--now that makes sense.

Kate

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 8:50AM
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labrea_gw

God Bless America is always sung at Yankees Games 7th inning stretch. It's often by some celebrity singer.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 8:55AM
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jillinnj

Joe - do you remember if they sang it before 9/11/01? I know at other stadiums they didn't before then, but not sure about Yankee Stadium.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 8:58AM
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rob333

But no one has said when it should be played. When is a good time?

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 9:17AM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Like I said above, The national anthem played at an event honoring the military or at the inauguration of the president of the USA or something like that--now that makes sense.

I think it would be a better opening for Congressional sessions than a prayer--since mixing religion and government is so disturbing to many Americans. A patriotic song we can all agree on would give the appropriate formality to the start of the governmental season.

Besides, then the singers would not have to all compete to see who can sing the loudest to fill the stadium with sound. It really bothers me when they strain themselves so hard.

Kate

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 10:24AM
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rob333

Missed that. Any other time? I'm not sure what to think on this one. I realize growing up military is very different than the rest of the US.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 10:45AM
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labrea_gw

I don't think they did it before 911 at Yankee Stadium!
Just YMCA

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 5:13PM
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jillinnj

Ha, YMCA! I much prefer that to "God Bless America".

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 5:56PM
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jodik_gw

I can recall actually being on the receiving end of some mighty dirty looks when I've left my arms at my sides, or done something other with them than holding a hand at my heart while standing for the national anthem... as though it were required, or something.

Imagine that...

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 7:14PM
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jillinnj

I have never put my hand over my heart during the playing of the National Anthem. Never noticed any dirty looks, but certainly possible I was oblivious.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2012 at 10:43PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I have never put my hand over my heart

Are you supposed to?

Things I never learned, and will now blame on the LAUSD.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 1:10AM
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lily316(z5PA)

As a Brownie and a Girl Scout, we were told to put our hand over our heart, and the boys should remove their caps. Habit for me, I guess, or brainwashing.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 2:42AM
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lavenderlver

I think the hand over heart thing is optional, but standing with your arms at your side is always respectful.

I've seen people stand up at the start of the anthem and continue on texting...why bother!

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 7:31AM
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jlhug

According to US Code Title 36, Chapter 10, Section 171, the proper conduct during the playing of the nation anthem is as follows:

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.

I seriously doubt that anyone would ever be arrested over not putting their hand over their heart during the playing of the national anthem but the situation is addressed in the US Code.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:33AM
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jlhug

Opps, forgot the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Flag Laws and Regulations

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:34AM
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demifloyd(8)

Every patriotic heart I've ever known has always put their hand over their heart.

This is a free country and citizens don't have to be patriotic or care, or participate.

Some like to make a statement by being "different," too.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:37AM
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jodik_gw

And some don't feel it's necessary to go to extremes over patriotism. There's nothing wrong in being different... diversity is what built this country, and conformity smells too much like... several things I'm personally not into.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 9:53AM
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lavenderlver

I stand corrected, thank you jlhug.

IMO, trying to instill an innate understanding of respect and gratitude for any goodness this country and more importantly, its people, have given, is an impossible task. Some people are so wrapped up in themselves, they can't conceive of the notion of honoring others in a recognizable manner.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 11:47AM
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citywoman2012

I love tradition.
Any tradition handed down to display respect(flag at half
mast)or Pledge of Allegiance to our Flag or God Bless America or any other display of bringing all together
to incorporate a "unit" spells America to me!

As for people who are offended by God Bless America, you
know , sometimes in life , when you are in a crowd and you don't believe in God and you are offended by God Bless America or you don't like a Nativity Scene on display
and you are offended by all these Traditions handed down
through the years.....don't look..... just don't participate.
No one is trying to cram traditions down anyones throat.
Out of respect for those around you I think you believe as you want and let others do the same.

If you wanted to sing 99 bottles of beer on the wall after
the Anthem...go right ahead.
I don't drink....don't believe in drinking ....don't like it....but I don't have to sing it with you .
You have your song ...I have mine.

See how simple it can be?

1. the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, especially by word of mouth or by practice: a story that has come down to us by popular tradition.
2. something that is handed down:
3. a long-established or inherited way of thinking or acting: The rebellious students wanted to break with tradition.
4. a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices.
5. a customary or characteristic method or manner: The winner took a victory lap in the usual track tradition.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 6:42PM
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bird_lover6

I like hearing the national anthem at sporting events. It's one of the few times that thousands of unrelated folks get together, so it's a nice tradition.

I thought I liked "God Bless America" after 9/ll during the seven inning stretch, but it's been going on waaaaaay too long. Time to bring back "Take Me Out to the Ballgame."

    Bookmark   November 19, 2012 at 9:02PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Patriotism consists of more than attending ballgames and putting your hand over your heart. As part of our entertainment, such shows trivialize what patriotism should encompass.

Kate

    Bookmark   November 19, 2012 at 9:20PM
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jmc01

"IMO, trying to instill an innate understanding of respect and gratitude for any goodness this country and more importantly, its people, have given, is an impossible task. Some people are so wrapped up in themselves, they can't conceive of the notion of honoring others in a recognizable manner."

Lavender, You have summed up the majority on this thread quite succinctly and accurately.

In the next couple of weeks...watch...they will be bicching about some aspect of the young in our country...and how parents of these young are pure trash.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2012 at 9:27PM
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elvis

"Patriotism consists of more than attending ballgames and putting your hand over your heart"

Agree.

"As part of our entertainment, such shows trivialize what patriotism should encompass."

Disagree.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2012 at 9:35PM
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lavenderlver

Thank you jmc01. Some things just deserve commonality, if not for yourself, as a small token for others.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2012 at 5:31AM
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rob333

"'IMO, trying to instill an innate understanding of respect and gratitude for any goodness this country and more importantly, its people, have given, is an impossible task. Some people are so wrapped up in themselves, they can't conceive of the notion of honoring others in a recognizable manner.'
Lavender, You have summed up the majority on this thread quite succinctly and accurately. "

Ditto!

    Bookmark   November 20, 2012 at 8:13AM
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october17(5chgo)

If it wasn't for sporting events, where would I hear the anthem? I think some tv stations used to play it before going off for the night, but they don't go off anymore. It's infomercials now. I would rather hear the anthem all night. I love the anthem. Brings tears to my eyes every time. Never was a scout, 4H for a time, but I don't remember the anthem in 4H.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2012 at 8:22AM
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haydayhayday

"If it wasn't for sporting events, where would I hear the anthem?"

Follow me on Saturday night. On the Saturday night after 911:

"From this day forward we will open every Saturday night with the National Anthem..."

Always followed by "God bless America". 10 tortured, wasted minutes of my life.

Respect? Don't show it and the Nazis will enforce it.

Hay

    Bookmark   November 20, 2012 at 10:04AM
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jmc01

"If it wasn't for sporting events, where would I hear the anthem"

October, Find a school, any school, and you can hear it.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2012 at 10:47PM
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october17(5chgo)

Gosh. I don't remember it ever being played at school either. And I went to catholic schools.

Last time I heard it was a ball game (White Sox), 18 mos ago. I'll go to itunes and get Hendrix's rendition.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 12:59AM
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