by a non-Muslim, via al-Jazeera.
Here is a link that might be useful: perspective
But why is Gaza continuing shooting rockets into Israel if they don't expect a response?
Who is shooting the rockets? Does Hamas control everything?
Some truck drives up in front of your house, fires off a rocket, they drive off, and your house gets blown up by a missile. Then the people who shot the missile blame you for not stopping the truck full of armed thugs.
I think its best to remember that Hamas (and Fatah) is essentially a violent street gang, running protection rackets, smuggling, extortion, and so on. A citizen is pretty much powerless. There are also a full contingent of other violent groups that have nothing to do with Hamas and hate Israel, and have the know how on how to make rockets.
Am I incorrect in thinking that Hamas controls the government in that region david?
"Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused Israel of being a "terrorist state" on Monday and criticized world powers for supporting the weeklong bombardment of Gaza that has killed almost 90 people."
Not so long ago, Fatah controlled both the West Bank and Gaza. This gang of thugs was so corrupt - everything from protection rackets to out and out stealing foreign aid and so on, that when they had a semblance of an open election, Hamas won. There ensued an inter-gang battle with Hamas shooting off the knee caps of Fatah members and visa versa, and Hamas finally wrestled control of Gaza and instilled their own brand of corruption.
But they don't control everything in it, and there are several break-away, separate hate groups that target Israel. Holding Hamas responsible for what these groups do is morally questionable, sort of like holding the Democrats responsible if somebody robs your house here in the US, what with Obama being president. And to carry this analogy further, lets say that the house robbers fired a missile from the alleyway behind your house, and Israel rockets your place, saying that its Obama's fault. Think that works?
Hamas controls all smuggling tunnels into Gaza there by they control the supply of all rocket or parts to make rockets brought into Gaza. So Hamas is responsible. since neither Egypt or Israel is letting any one legally import weapons into Gaza . So Hamas is responsible.
"Hamas controls all smuggling tunnels into Gaza"
How do you "know" that?
Not that it would really change anything, but how do you "know" that.
I think you made it up. No one can "know" that.
Smugglers put up big signs at the entrance of the tunnels or something?
"This tunnel sponsored by Hamas."
Well, at 500 rockets a day, and a new range that can hit Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, someone somewhere's is smuggling SOMETHING into Gaza. In ten days they go through 5,000 rockets? And they've been doing this for months? Gimme a break!
We get those kinds of signs around here when some state governor wants to take credit for a road being built. I guess it makes sense.
I have a lot of respect for people who refuse to blindly follow...
"In January 2002, 51 reserve soldiers and officers signed a "Combat Troops' Letter" or "Combatants' Letter" in which they declared their refusal "to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people."
The pilots' letter
"The pilots' letter," published on September 24, 2003, was signed by 27 reserve and active duty pilots. One of the signatories was the famous pilot Brigadier General (res.) Yiftah Spector. The letter was precipitated by the targeted killing of Salah Shehade, leader of Hamas's militant wing, who was killed by a one ton bomb dropped on his residential building along with 14 others. Pilots decried the large number of civilian casualties caused by Israel's targeted killings as violating the military's ethics code. In their letter, the pilots stated:
We, veteran and active pilots alike, who served and still serve the state of Israel for long weeks every year, are opposed to carrying out attack orders that are illegal and immoral of the type the state of Israel has been conducting in the territories. We, who were raised to love the state of Israel and contribute to the Zionist enterprise, refuse to take part in Air Force attacks on civilian population centers. We, for whom the Israel Defense Forces and the Air Force are an inalienable part of ourselves, refuse to continue to harm innocent civilians. These actions are illegal and immoral, and are a direct result of the ongoing occupation which is corrupting all of Israeli society. Perpetuation of the occupation is fatally harming the security of the state of Israel and its moral strength.
The commandos' letter
This letter, dated December 2003, was signed by 13 reservists of Sayeret Matkal, an elite commando unit, serving in the West Bank and Gaza Strip (nine commandos in Sayeret Matkal, 2 soldiers who had been removed from reserve duty because of prior refusals to serve there, and 2 additional combatant soldiers). Their letter, addressed to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, stated:
We shall no longer lend a hand in the occupation of the territories. We shall no longer take part in the deprivation of basic human rights from millions of Palestinians. We shall no longer serve as a shield in the crusade of the settlements. We shall no longer corrupt our moral character in missions of oppression. We shall no longer deny our responsibility as soldiers of the Israeli DEFENSE force."
haydayhayday Hamas get cut from all item smuggle in Gaza tunnels how else do thing they get money to pay people since Israel has been blockading most supplies in Gaza for several years. All these facts a well known from any one who cares to know.
Also Hamas taxes the dirt dug from tunnels since mud brick is one only building supplies available Gaza due to blockage.
the blockage was put in place due to previous Hamas terrorist acts.
"All these facts a well known from any one who cares to know."
Of course!!! What a fool I've been.
"Also Hamas taxes the dirt dug from tunnels since mud brick is one only building supplies available Gaza due to blockage."
Really? I sure am learning a lot today. You happen to know the tax rate?
That's an interesting find, Hay.
If you don't mind, thegreatcob, I'd like to know where you get your facts. Would you mind sharing your sources with me?
Seriously, where'd you learn about these things?
Although I don't disagree with all of what this writer says, it is rather disingenuous to say that Hamas's and Islamic Jihad's thousands of missiles aren't really that bad, because they missed killing enough people. After all, the didn't really hit their targets, so what your problem?
And Hay, if you read my link from the other thread, you'll see that Hamas, et al are no angels and that they are as responsible for their people's misery as anyone else. They have had a choke hold on the people and the tunnels are full of weapons and yes, they "tax" all of the goods needed by their own people; thieves is too good a word.
THESE ARE NOT NICE PEOPLE. The governments, I mean of course, the people themselves are tired and scared and are losing hope that their leaders will be smart. Just like us.
Islamist Jihad is fighting with Hamas, and they have different agendas right now, but not always.
I'm not saying one side is good the other bad. I'm saying tell the truth about both of them, even if you don't like it. And as we all know, truth is the first casualty of war, so we have to hold to it even if it hurts.
Batya, I feel for you. I don't really disagree with most of what you say.
I've always felt that one of the horrible consequences of war is that those of us who don't like it are, inevitably, by the nature of its evil, drawn into it whether we want to or not. It's just the way it is.
When the bombs start falling, you have to run for cover. I can understand that you will not be running for cover in Hamas territory.
Peace is a rare thing for us humans. Cherish it when you find it.
It will take some very strong people to find it again.
I respect those who will not fight.
The only difference is that Israel truly desires peace. The fire when fired upon.
They fire when fired upon.
The only difference is that Israel truly desires peace.
That argument would be far more convincing if they'd stop expanding settlements into the occupied territories..
Well said redsox.
Gaza always starts the bombing. News stories report it the first day, but not again after that. It's all about how many people Israel kills.
If they hadn't intercepted/shot down hundreds of those missiles, there would be more dead in Israel. But again, we probably wouldn't even hear about that.
The media is afraid of terrorists.
Whats your take on the settlements, October17 and redox?
I find that a provocation, having little tolerance for biblical claims to land. I don't think it particularly fair to cherry pick one aspect of this snarl - eg rockets from Gaza - and ignore all the rest - the settlements, the blockade, detention w/o trial, assassinations, and so on.
When the Palestinians (govt, not the people) truly want peace, there will be no settlements, blockade, detention.
I did not quote a biblical claim to land.
I care not one whit about assassinations of terrorists, Osama bin Laden or otherwise. I was delighted by his assassination, in fact.
So you think that if the Palestinians stop firing rockets, the settlement expansion will cease?
I don't believe so, because the justification for the expansion is a biblical interpretation of land ownership.
Just once I would like to hear a Palestinian in the Gaza Strip say in a media interview "gee Hamas has got to stop killing people in Israel if there is ever going to be peace."
And I just love it when Egypt self rightiously goes after Israel while Egypt itself closes the border crossings when Palestinian violence worsens.
If a drug cartel in a Mexican border town was shooting 500 missles into Texas and the Mexican government did nothing about it or even supported the group by turning a blind eye to more arms being smuggled in, just what do you think the Texas national Guard would be doing? And how careful do think they would be of civilians who hold the missle shooters as heros.
The Palestinians are still voting to support Hamas (yes as the lesser of two evils, but still supporting them).
At least 60 of the rockets fired into Gaza have injured Palestinian residents. They use their own people as human shields. Yet Israel makes great efforts to reduce collateral damage while Palestinians fire on their own people.
There are very few Jewish people left in Gaza which is why they are moving the bombing into Tel Aviv.
That scenario about cartels firing missiles into Texas will likely become reality at some point.
Just what I was thinking when I wrote it (even if I can't type missiles or much else
The smaller the territory, the bigger the fight. This conflict reminds me of another spleenish spot on the map with too many unemployed men: Northern Ireland. But...wait! That ceased.
And now Anonymous joins the fight.
The Israeli government on Sunday said it has been hit with more than 44 million cyberattacks since it began aerial strikes on Gaza last week. Anonymous, the hacker collective, claimed responsibility for taking down some sites and leaking passwords because of what it calls Israel's "barbaric, brutal and despicable treatment" of Palestinians.
"The war is being fought on three fronts," Carmela Avner, Israel's chief information officer, said on Sunday in a press release. "The first is physical, the second is the world of social networks and the third is cyberattacks.
Here is a link that might be useful: CNN
Redsox, there are no Jews in Gaza and there haven't been for a long time. Hamas is firing missles FROM there into an area in southern Israel in/near Sderot and Beersheva.
They are now striking Tel Aviv simply because they can. Previously they didn't have the capability.
The Palestinian people do not have the same opportunity to speak out publicly against Hamas as Israeli's do when they disagree with their government so you will not hear or see them making statements on TV or in the media. It could be very dangerous for individuals to do so. Don't take their silence as support because you don't see them on CNN or Al Jazeera. Like anywhere else there are those that object to the rockets as well as those that support them.
The settlements? Really? You think that is provocation to bomb Israeli civilians?
Well, I think the palestinians have had no intention - ever - for peace with jews. They cooperated with the Nazi's. I think Israel has to do what Israel has to do. I have absolutely no sympathy for the palestinians and their terrorism.
Maybe I'm still holding a grudge after seeing palestinians celebrate 9/11. Old women were handing out candy over there. Nope, I think they bring this all on themselves.
I remember Mr Arafat (I never liked him much) recognized Israel how long did that last?
Batya be well continue your work for peace & I hope you son remains safe!
Ah, Mr Arafat who was offered 99% of what the Palestinians requested in exchange for peace and would not accept. Yet they want peace?
What ever I think is irrelevant. Its what they think, and they think that losing their homes to Israeli settlers is justification for retaliation by rockets, there ya go.
Pretty often, if you take peoples homes where they've lived for generations and destroy their livelihoods, they fight back anyway they can. Dismiss that concept if you will, but billions of people around the globe find it a definite and defining factor in this conflict.
We don't see as many Israeli deaths from the rockets because as soon as the sirens go off, they head for shelters. Many have bomb shelters or safe rooms in their own homes and apartments, and during times of increased activity, stay close to shelters.
The rockets are still doing considerable physical damage.
As David put it, it doesn't matter what we think. What does matter is the opinions of those directly involved in this disaster, and disaster is exactly what it is.
Claiming that one side wants peace and the other side doesn't, gets nothing accomplished because, as Batya keeps saying, this is not a simple problem to resolve, there are no good guys and bad guys in the middle of this mess and most of what is going on, has gone on and will go on is not reported in the media or fairly reported or equally reported.
The ability to live in peace, in a land that is their own and be respected and able to live and provide for ones family is all that the majority of the people on both sides want.
It's the government on both sides that is the problem and the government on both sides that is not willing to stop what is going on and truly and honestly negotiate some kind of permanent peace.
The continued building of new settlements on occupied, disputed lands does nothing to show anyone in the world, especially the Palestinians that Israel wants peace or to even talk about some kind of treaty and peace settlement.
The reactions of the Palestinian leadership, equally, doesn't say anything about wanting a treaty and peace either.
And so it goes and continues to go and the world watches the disaster that continues to go on and on and on without any end ever in site.
Expecting Israel to sit by and do nothing while rockets continue to fall on her people and her land, is ludicrous. As President Obama said, "no other country" would put up with this.
At the same time, to defend herself, Israel sends of military barrages to take out the Palestinian leaders and they hide themselves in and amongst the general public so that the world will see that Israel kills innocent people in the process.
Those are facts and neither side is the good guy and neither side is the bad guy, it's just one horrible mess and until there are 2 governments that actually care more about peace and the people that they govern, than being hawkish and want war more than they want peace (at least that is the way it appears from both sides to me), then this disaster is going to continue on and on and on.
Batya, please stay safe and your family and friends as well. Keep us posted as to what is going on and how you are.
I am praying for you, your family, your friends and both sides of this horrible mess.
You don't see as many Israeli deaths because the rockets have not been accurate, the early warning system and Iron Dome. Now with Tel Aviv a target that can all change quickly.
Many have bomb shelters or safe rooms in their own homes and apartments, and during times of increased activity, stay close to shelters.
Where did you hear that? Most Israeli's don't have safe rooms or personal bomb shelters. On the contrary. It is the public shelters for the vast majority with few exceptions. People have to work and children have to go to school, life goes on, so staying home or being near a shelter is not always possible.
It also depends on where you are as to the location and number of shelters available. In Sederot they have several because of the need. They have been forced to build underground playgrounds for the children over the last year because they have not been able to play outside. Other cities are not the same simply because the need is less. That was a problem during the Gulf War when many didn't have a shelter close enough to go to when the sirens rang.
The rockets are still doing considerable physical damage
And emotional damage as well. All around.
Batya be well continue your work for peace & I hope you son remains safe!
My sentiments as well.
The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for 40 years.
Israeli Interior Minister, Eli Yishai
I think that there is probably a lot of truth in this statement. Not all in one go, but with patience. Just enough each time before requesting a truce to not risk American support (the words of other Western powers are discounted). It won't take much longer.
Good to see the apologists returning to the forum as they do each time . . . not you, Batya - I think you are as even-handed as possible.
Some discussion on the networks this morning about handing Gaza back to Egypt - nonsense, of course, as that would recognise the 'Two State' dream is ended.
Maybe the Global Policeman should step in and take both sides toys away until they grow up. I for one, am heartily sick of this toxic little game.
Israel wants more and more land for the Jewish State and want Palestinians to leave.
I guess some Palestinians would rather stay even if they have to fight with hand made rockets and die.
Israel offers nothing to the Palestinians and believes it owes them nothing. The plight of the Palestinians is roughly analogous to what happened to the American Indians, only far more oppressive and far more brutal.
It's very sad and there will be no winner in the end.
"Good to see the apologists returning to the forum as they do each time . . . not you, Batya - I think you are as even-handed as possible."
Lots of apologists, both for and against Israel. And thank you for excluding Batya, as she has the ability to look at this horrible situation from both sides. A difficult thing to do and something usually lacking from this board.
IMO, Hamas extremists and their leaders don't want the situation in Gaza to change, they want the Palestinian people to remain oppressed. They have far more to gain by keeping things status quo, including the widespread sympathy factor. As a bonus, they gain a follower or three. The martyrhood mindset.
I agree, the world should step in. And of course that will never happen so long as the US supports Israel, which will be until Israel switches horses for China, which will be when China eclipses the US in soft and hard power.
What is it the current Israeli administration should do? What is going to create peace? Nothing Israel does will ever be enough.
Nothing less than the death of all jews and all americans will satisfy the terrorists. Nothing.
I don't care one bit how much of our tax money supports Israel. They fight terrorism. It's enough for me.
Israel fights terrorism? Well, there are many in the world that believe the existence and history of Israel has fueled Jihadist sentiments for the last 50 years. The Western world forced the State of Israel onto the region already populated by Arabs and Egyptians, driving many non-Jewish Palestinians into refugee camps where many remained for generations to the advantages of other Muslim states and the Great Powers during the Cold War. Other Muslin states refused to allow many Palestinians to settle permanently, keeping the idea of Muslim refugees front and center for decades. People wonder why Iran's influence has grown over the past decade or more among the Gazans and elsewhere.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
This is a very complicated situation with good and bad on both sides and the people of both Nations smack dab in the middle.
Interesting isn't it that after Egypt agreed to drop the idea of throwing all the Jews into the sea, Egypt and Israel both had years of great economic and social gains. All it took was a very brave man who walked into the Israeli Knesset in Jerusalem to say today we begin peace and we will treat each other as nations.
For that, the Arab League threw Egypt out of its membership. Two years later, members of the Muslim Brotherhood murdered Anwar Sadat because he dared to start peace instead of war. The same Muslim Brotherhood now in power in Egypt.
Peace didn't begin to break out in Ireland until the people followed a few courageous outspoken people who said we've been fighting a war for decades and no progress has been made; maybe we can try fighting a peace instead.
Israel has not always made and is not making what I preceive to be the wisest decisions. But peace will begin to break out when a Palestinian leader says we can all co-exist and is supported by their people. Then real discussions can begin. How can you negotiate with a steadfast position of you must all die?
The Palestinian refugee problem began in 1948 when the Arab nations all declared war on the newly reformed state of Israel and dropped leaflets that said muslims among the jews move out of the area and let us push the Jews into the sea and make the waters run red with their blood. Then you can come back and take their land, houses and business. Many Palestinians ignored the Israeli leaflets that said stay here, join with us to be part of this new nation and actually have a vote for the first time.
Marshallz10 got it right that when the Arab nations did not roll Israel into the sea, they made sure the Palestinian refugee camps became permanent fixtures.
By the way, just how much foreign aid are these oil rich arab counties sending into Gaza and the West Bank? It was about $500 million last year and will be about $200 million this year. The U.S. sends about $2 billion a year in foreign aid. Yet their leaders continue to teach the Palestinians to hate the U.S. I say turn off the money faucet until Palestinians decide to wage peace.
Many Palestinians ignored the Israeli leaflets that said stay here, join with us to be part of this new nation and actually have a vote for the first time.
Please explain how Palestinians would be welcome into the Jewish State as citizens with the right to vote, own land , etc. Is this a One State solution, because if so, I would like to see it.
Meanwhile Israel is killing 10:1 or more in revenge but I am not sure that will amount to winning or ending their War on and with Palestinians.
The Arab world has changed with the Arab Spring and I am concerned that Hamas rockets as well as Israel's bombing Gaza is only radicalizing more Palestinians and Arabs throughout the region and garnering more support for Hamas while endangering the moderate, secular Palestinian Fatah.
Netanyahu wants to show military might in order to present himself as the protector of Israel before the Israeli elections. He knows that the United States will never stop Israel and surely no other nation outside the region will.
No surprise Iran, Turkey and now Egypt are stirring and rattling their sabres.
This is the first major Israeli offensive after the Arab Spring began. I would like to see a truce before Netanyahu goes to far with the typical out of proportion, brutal military response that follows these Hamas rocket volleys.
If there is a chance for Peace, it probably won't be realized while Benji is there.
Two years later, members of the Muslim Brotherhood murdered Anwar Sadat because he dared to start peace instead of war. The same Muslim Brotherhood now in power in Egypt.
My husband spent some time as a UN observer in Egypt. One of the things he noted was that the Egyptians hated the Palestinians. Refered to them as "dogs". They treated them worse than they would an Israeli and did not want them breaching the border.
The time he spent in the region he saw that the Palestinians are surrounded by people who don't like them and don't want them. Israel, Egypt... the Jordanians didn't want them migrating into Jordan.
They are like the Roma of the Middle East.
Neither Christians, Jews, nor Buddhists, nor Hindus need to worry about finding any reasons to inflame Muslims. Our mere existence is sufficient cause. Where exactly on the planet do Muslims live in peace with non-Muslim neighbors in the modern world? In Europe and here, just a matter of time. Why do we seem to expect Jews to succeed here? Arab Spring?! Doubt it. Arab Springs are short and always precede a hellacious and deadly summer. Give me a break! How long would Americans tolerant incessant bombing. No, we nuked Hiroshima, then moved on to Nagasaki and did not seem to go through any existential crisis of the immorality of it all. Naivete seems to be the tragic flaw of many 'liberals'. In this case, the barbarians really are at the gate.
Anyone remember the false weapons-find on the Gaza Flotilla? That is their standard M.O.
Some here need a little reminder to get their facts right. Or rather stop the parrotting and start getting the facts. For a change.
Ah, freedom of expression is such a wonderful thing! It allows brain-dead pond life to write the most putrid, incredulous, defamatory, discriminatory, unreasoned, misinformed, prejudiced, biased, disgusting, uncivilised views . . .
And can be freely ridiculed and ignored. See, I'm becoming converted to this First Amendment stuff :)
Actually, Jon, here on this forum, regardless of Constitutional rights of expression, we for the most part can do better than resort to derogation.
In a word, pnbrown - Bollocks!
Are you and I reading the same forum???
here's another view of gaza:
Here is a link that might be useful: Believe half of what you see
Brown: "Actually, Jon, here on this forum, regardless of Constitutional rights of expression, we for the most part can do better than resort to derogation."
Hamilton: "Are you and I reading the same forum???"
Can't you take a joke? ;D
Wow, Bill. Theater, huh?
As somebody famous once said, "In war, truth is the first casualty"
On a similar vein, at the link is the now-famous photoshopped picture the Romney campaign sent around to show how huge his crowds were in Nevada.
Here is a link that might be useful: link
Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.prageruniversity.com/Political-Science/The-Middle-East-Problem.html
"On a similar vein, at the link is the now-famous photoshopped picture the Romney campaign sent around to show how huge his crowds were in Nevada."
I don't know, but I have absolutely no doubt that this could very well be an innocent mistake.
From your link:
"I do a lot of panoramic photography, and have for years. I use some decently expensive software, but have also used Photoshop, and cheaper stuff. I've never seen any automatic panoramic software do this bad a job. There's no way the software wouldn't recognize, for example, the obvious support beam and cement base -- it duplicated it, rather than merged them. Highly unlikely that this was a software accident."
I also have done a fair amount of panoramas over the past few years. I now do it on Photoshop, but before that, I did it on a freebie program called Gimp which was an awkward freebie version of Photoshop.
One of the things I've done each year for about six years at least is to take a series of overlapping pictures, 360 degrees worth, in order to create a six foot long, six inch high, 360 degree panorama of a particular garden.
I take the pictures and then send it through Photoshop or Gimp and, God willing, out pops a decent panorama. But, I can tell you that God is not always willing and will indeed play a lot of very comical tricks with my pictures. Much, much more often than this author would lead you to believe.
I'm taking overlapping pictures of a garden on a non windy day with a very good camera and use a very good program: Photoshop. Still I get lots of funny things happening.
Now imagine that you do the same thing with a crowd of people. People don't sit still while you move your camera around. The wind is blowing the trees around. And you're doing this with your small screened Iphone with a program designed to fit the small space inside that already crowded Iphone. (Wasn't it one of the new Apple versions of Iphone or something that had a horrendous version of a Maps program that was sending people over cliffs and the like?)
Your link has a link to the original source of this "discovery" at buzzfeed where it looks like the program used to create this photo was something called Instagram which is a FREE program with a "stable" release version sometime in mid October, 2012 and a "Development Stage that is "active"".It was initially released two years ago.
Now imagine you're in the crowd taking overlapping pictures on your little tiny screen, the crowd is moving around, using this program to stitch them all together and you've got five minutes to hit the send button before the bus packs up and you're off to the next event.
Like I say, I have no trouble believing that is could be an innocent mistake.
But, the real reason that I think this could be innocent is that it is SO BAD. Nobody, even your most ardent Romney supporter, could believe that they're going to be fooling anyone with this incredibly bad panorama.
Hurry now, we've got to catch the bus!!!!!
Still not convinced?
After that post of mine, I kept going.....
Check out this analysis of the picture.
Be sure to look very carefully at those moving cars in the panorama submitted by Adam Thompson. You ever see a fender moving down a highway before? Half of a car moving down the road? With the other half following close behind?
Hurry now, the bus is leaving!!!!!!
Ah, so it was just some cheap stitching program.
Romney lost Nevada anyway.
"Ah, so it was just some cheap stitching program."
I don't think it's necessary for it to be a cheap program. Not at all. Photoshop could do the same thing in that kind of situation and I suspect Photoshop is as good as they come these days.
I've still been looking around the internet about all this. I'm interested in the photography aspect, not whether Romney won Nevada or not.
And, looking around, I think I was wrong in attributing this to a possible glitch in Instagram. I think, now, that it's more likely a glitch in an Iphone or another "camera". Instagram just seems to be a "sharing" program.
But, the gist of my, and others, argument that it's likely nothing more than a typical "stitching" problem still stands.
Like I said, it's SO BAD that I find it really hard to believe that anyone could imagine they were going to be fooling anyone with it.
"THESE ARE NOT NICE PEOPLE. The governments, I mean of course, the people themselves are tired and scared and are losing hope that their leaders will be smart. Just like us. "
This statement is equally true of much of the israeli government.
Obviously,the settlements are provocative and meant to be so. There are many people in the world---I count myself among that number--- who believe the creation of Israel was in itself a gross injustice to the Palestinians and the Zionist movement as much a terrorist organization as the PLO and Hamas ever were.
Agree with hericles' statements in their entirety.
"Meanwhile Israel is killing 10:1 or more in revenge but "
Revenge for what Heri?
I agree that Hamas uses the palestinians to make Israel look bad. All arabs look bad for not accepting the palestinians.
I met someone whose mother was from palestine. We had a class together at a jr college. Once while studying with her, I said something about the US being a great country. She spit on the ground. Told me her mother lost her house (mother had to be a child then) there. I asked her, then why are you living here? Why not any other country in the world? She never answered.
She wore the head scarf but swore like a truck driver. It always made me laugh when she swore with that thing on.