the green mountain boys

pnbrownNovember 15, 2013

Isn't it kind of delicious that little Vermont, smack in blue-state territory, and now dominated by liberal politicos, allows both open and concealed carry without a permit?

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jodik_gw

Delicious isn't a word I'd choose to describe that particular notion.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 9:07AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

Perhaps they are the so-called good guys with a gun?

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 9:44AM
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jodik_gw

I'm all in favor of permitting any sort of carry, with strict guidelines and background checks of some depth.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 10:05AM
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pnbrown

VT is wonderful for freedom; one can drive without having to buy insurance and walk around town with a pistol on one's hip.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 12:31PM
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Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

It's not so good if you're a minority in a liberal state such as VT.

According to the United States Census Bureau in 2011, 95.5% of the 626,592 people living in Vermont are white. The problem is not VermontâÂÂs demographics but the tyranny of the majority. The majority white population is swaying policy and influencing the Vermont Criminal Justice System which has a negative impact on the remaining 4.5% of VermontâÂÂs population.

A revealing statistic showed that black stop rates per 1000 residents 18 and over is double that of whites in South Burlington and Burlington. As well that investigatory stops, when police use high levels of discretion and there is no clear violation of the law, black people are 85% more likely than white people to be pulled over for investigatory stops in Burlington and South Burlington. Lastly the most invasive form of a motor vehicle stop, the search and seizure. In Burlington blacks are twice as likely to be searched when stopped compared to whites and are six times more likely to be searched in South Burlington. Appel puts these statistics into context claiming that âÂÂofficerâÂÂs exercise discretion when pulling someone overâ and that these statistics show that at least one factor for an officerâÂÂs degree of intrusion is based on the race of the driver. This issue of race is further perpetuated in Vermont because blacks stand out and are more likely to be bothered by police. AppelâÂÂs most revealing statistic was based on incarcerations in Vermont. Even though black people make up less than 2% of the Vermont population, people of color make up over 10% of VermontâÂÂs prison population. Eileen Blackwood the Burlington City Attorney added that the Vermont incarceration rate of African Americans is proportionally the 3rd highest in the country.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 3:13PM
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jodik_gw

Freedom is a wonderful thing... but it comes with a price. That price is respecting that everyone else has the same freedoms, and we can't allow our sense of freedom to harm others.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 3:14PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

I am 100% for the instant background check. That's about all I am for re: gun regs. there is simply no need for any more harassment.

Burlington, who is committing the bulk of the crimes there?

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 3:41PM
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pnbrown

No restriction whatsoever on concealed or open carry, and yet gun-crime in VT is very low.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 4:07PM
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fancifowl(5Pa)

well pn, just take a look around. Cities and states with the tightest restrictions also have the highest crime rates. gee, anti gun laws work so well!
Even tho the number of gun owners has dramaticly increased and there are 30 million more guns in citizens hands in the last few years, gun crimes decrease! Gun control is just another liberal, bankrupt cause. You see how the Bloomburg effort has tanked even after he spent millions to quash rights of citizens.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 10:57AM
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jodik_gw

The problem is... the agenda focuses on the inanimate object... but does not address the many underlying social and economic reasons why people commit crimes in the first place.

And yet again, a law only works if everyone follows it. Otherwise, it's only a few words on paper.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 11:14AM
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elvis

Well said, jodi ;-)

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 11:17AM
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pnbrown

VT is like Iceland in this regard. What do they have in common? Relatively homogeneous populations and relatively low wealth inequity.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 4:36PM
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pnbrown

We might deduce that gun restriction laws follow social inequity and discord, as legislatures try to chase the symptoms, since they cannot fix the underlying problems. Were VT or Iceland to acquire large socio-economically diverse populations and considerable inequity, assuredly crime would shoot up and the cool unconcern about gun possession would vanish.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 8:44PM
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jodik_gw

I can't take credit for finding this article of significance, linked below... the credit goes to Marshallz, I believe... he posted it in another thread, though I can't recall where, exactly... but it fits here...

Here is a link that might be useful: Up in Arms

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 9:08AM
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pnbrown

Yes, I read throughout this nine-or-eleven "nation" theory before. His historical descriptions seem accurate, but the conclusions for present influences are rather exaggerated. There is scholarly criticism of this theory that seems to be well-founded.

Nevertheless, let's just say that he is correct, and levels of violence depend on which of the eleven nations one measures. IOW, as I said above, levels of gun violence are results of deep societal differences, and passing gun laws is merely chasing symptoms. It won't change anything. If a cracker feels that his honor has been assaulted, lack of a gun will not prevent action.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 12:02PM
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