Never by Chance

bill_vincent(Central Maine)November 17, 2012

As much as members here complain about others and some of the views we each hold, there's a reason we're all here-- and while many in here, whether or not they'll admit to it, live by the same mantra I have (EVERYONE'S entitled to my opinion), we're all here to both teach AND learn, and no one's here by accident. This was posted on Facebook this morning, and the very first thing that popped into my mind was this forum:

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demifloyd(8)

Bill, I happen to agree with that in every facet of my life.

I have always contended that hopefully, every experience in life with someone will make me or them a better person for the next person or experience.

Except for this group of people.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 2:12PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Then why are you here?

A lot.

As for the original premise, it is nonsense. I'm going to change the life of someone I meet briefly, once, and never see again?

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 2:18PM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 17, 12 at 14:18

Then why are you here?

*

I'm not here to change anyone's life or opinion or to be changed.

Apparently you are, by that question?

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 2:21PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

bboy-- Yep. Might even change the life of someone you NEVER meet in person. If anyone were to take the time and check my posts from when I first started coming in here, and compare them to what I post now, you'd see a most definite change. About the only things that haven't changed (and won't) are my views on God and my views on the 2nd amendment. We ALL learn, unless you're too damn stubborn, bboy. That includes even you.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 2:26PM
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ohiomom

"except for this group of people"

And yet Bill you only challenged bboy on his statement? I actually have learned a little (or a lot) from souls who have walked through my life. I have learned that for every hateful, ugly, violent act (person) there are many more kind souls in my world.

All you have to do is look around you, even if it is not in your "personal space" to see total strangers reaching out, not for monetary gain, but because it is the right thing to do.

We are all in this (world) together...

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 2:55PM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

OM- I didn't "challenge" bboy. I defended my premise from his statement that it was nonsense, which coming from him, should be no surprise, only because I was the one who made the premise.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 3:03PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I agree with Bill. I have learned alot. I have always had people in my life that cared. I find there are really everyday people that think of other humans (I cannot think of the word) but it is just different.

I do not know what I will do with this learning experience but I am sure it will be useful when I deal with people in charity situation or everyday life events.

It is a nice post Bill.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 3:05PM
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ohiomom

"we're all here to both teach AND learn"

This was your premise correct? We are all here to both teach and learn on HT? Just want to make sure I understood.

Yes it is a nice post...

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 3:26PM
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batyabeth

Absolutely, Bill. What a lovely thing to have in life, all that potential for change, right around the next kind word or chance contact.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 3:59PM
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vgkg(Z-7)

Smile and the world smiles with you...most of the time.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 4:45PM
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Elly_NJ(NJ z6)

Bill, I happen to agree with that in every facet of my life.
I have always contended that hopefully, every experience in life with someone will make me or them a better person for the next person or experience.

Except for this group of people.

Demi,

You just made me spew my drink! Thanks! I needed that!

I think some people need to dig out their senses of humor.

: )

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 5:00PM
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demifloyd(8)

I know Elly! ;)

I think part of the problem is that people are sitting at their keyboards assuming people like me are sitting here as angry as they are or assuming the worst about others that have differing opinions, or just wanting to believe the worst, or wanting others to believe the worst about someone else.

None of that exactly fits in with the kind and positive sentiment expressed in Bill's OP.

Good reminder, Bill!

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 5:14PM
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jmc01

bill, Great post. That type of thinking is why I said months ago on HT that I believe I have at least one thing in common with every single person in this world. thanks for sharing this.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 6:03PM
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labrea_gw

Some times people change your life by murdering you!
KUMBAYA

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 6:09PM
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elvis

"we're all here to both teach AND learn, and no one's here by accident."

I think so, too. And I take "here" to mean everywhere, not just HT.

What Demi said: "I think part of the problem is that people are sitting at their keyboards assuming people like me are sitting here as angry as they are or assuming the worst about others that have differing opinions, or just wanting to believe the worst, or wanting others to believe the worst about someone else." I agree with that; the vitriol is really astonishing to me. Thank goodness it's not the norm, and it's only a few.

Posted by jmc01 (My Page) on Sat, Nov 17, 12 at 18:03

"bill, Great post. That type of thinking is why I said months ago on HT that I believe I have at least one thing in common with every single person in this world. thanks for sharing this."

Me, too.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 6:20PM
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don_socal

Interesting concept, I taught a Master gardener class on trees this morning that was supposed to go for an hour and they kept me talking for three hours. Nice people, made me feel better about myself and I sure needed that.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 6:32PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Very nice thread topic, Bill; I've learned alot on GW and HT over the years and hope I might have contributed to someone else's enlightenment. Don, I too participated in a California Rare Fruit Growers' meeting today, expected to be little more than 1.5 hours and lasted for 3.5 hours. Out topic of the day was fruit, nut and berry plants for Mediterranean gardens. I learned new information, even from the questions asked.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:01PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I think part of the problem is that people are sitting at their keyboards assuming people like me are sitting here as angry as they are or assuming the worst about others that have differing opinions, or just wanting to believe the worst, or wanting others to believe the worst about someone else.

Projection. Lets see who is the most worried about poor people are taking our money? Who is looking for the next Benghazi horror? Whose Presidential Candidate Lost?

Hummmmm lets see a lot of people have been celebrating and I thought what Bill posted was true because...... I was happy to come to HT and celebrate with the people that worked hard for the President, the ones that posted info they had found that helped some chose who they thought would make the country better.

Lily, elly, eli, David, jillinnj, Kate, maddie, maggie and many others have shared links I did not know about that was great info. Facts..... you know not fantasy what they would like to be true. vgkg, gives me a giggle she is very creative with the words, Don runs through with some great info I wish he would drop by more.

Angry. I don't think so.

Like I said great subject Bill.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:19PM
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elvis

"berry plants for Mediterranean gardens"

Does that include capers? Or are just buds? And--can one grow them in a large pot, on deck in summer and indoors in the winter (the way I do basil and rosemary)?

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:20PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Hey Elvis, capers are harvested from a very ugly, thorny, sparsely foliated shrub that is native to very poor soil and rather hot summers. The capers in the those glass jars are the dried flower buds. I rather doubt the shrub would do well as a potted plant. Anyone got more experience with capers in containers.

I use the dried green fruit of nasturtiums, fresh or pickled for a similar flavor.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:28PM
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elvis

"I use the dried green fruit of nasturtiums, fresh or pickled for a similar flavor."

You mean the immature seeds? Yer kiddin' me; they're so easy to come by...I eat the blossoms, but never contemplated eating the buds. That's awesome, wish it was September. Now I gotta trade for some "nasty" seeds to plant in the spring.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:36PM
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labrea_gw

Eternal Design and Never a chance speaks to predestination which removes all free choice. (no way around that)
If there is free choice then there are most certainly accidents & the deaths of millions are not learning experiences for the rest of us! (they are evil under that model)

These are old metaphysical & theological ideas that come round & round & round again From Augustine to Calvin.

It's just a theological & metaphysical principle that gets dressed up in "the new age" every now & then. That new age is whenever it gets brought up again!
Emerson Lake & Palmer.

Course in Miracles says we are all teachers &what we teach others we are teaching ourselves so teach only love (Not the sappy kind)

There is a Theologian who stated

a God "who knows all possibilities, experiences novelty, and is willing to engage in an appropriate level of risk is more exalted than a God who faces an eternally settled future."
An eternally settled future is free of accidents!
"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you." Mat 6

A universe without accident needs no forgiveness.
Forgiveness is a state that is not the petty your ideology/thoughts/customs/being clashed with mine so I'll let you off the hook just this one time because we will both feel better afterward.
Forgiveness in the non accidental universe says (the error was assuming there was something to forgive & that a mistake could have occurred in the first place)

Not being a theist & certainly when I was one not being a Calvinist I reject the idea of soul mates, angels in the flesh & intentional meddling in the Universe,.

These are old metaphysical & theological ideas that come round & round & round again From Augustine to Calvin.

To even rock & roll.
"Do you believe god makes you breath, how could he lose 6 million jews"

The Perfect Universe is a Universe is one of Omnipotence & sheer might & not the choice if you are a Christian to participate in crucifying Christ.
There is no lesson of The agony in the garden of Gethsemane or the freedom of Judas do what you have to!

All that said I can learn something from everyone even if it only to stay away from them!

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:44PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

Elvis, I still have nasturtium growing and flowering. You want me to mail you green and nature seeds. These are bushy types, very floriferous. BTW, the young leaves a good in salads and stir fries -- lends a peppery flavor.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 8:49PM
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don_socal

Good stuff, I nibble on it when working around it.

I like going to Rare fruit society meetings, they have the best snacks.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 9:15PM
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elvis

Thank you, Marshall; I'll be emailing you. never thought about eating the leaves, either. I adore nasturtiums; one of my very favorites--any color.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 9:21PM
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october17(5chgo)

I have a nasturtium. Never bloomed all summer. Put it in the garage three weeks ago. Has a bloom on it now! Go figure.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 9:47PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

You got it, elvis.

Don, we have resurrected the CRFG chapter that includes Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties. Today's meeting had the highest attendance so far even though nothing was for sale. There is a real hunger for information about edible landscaping and for tricks to attain highest yield of food (and flowers) from relatively small spaces.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 9:50PM
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don_socal

When are we going to have a cup-o and shoot the breeze?

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 10:01PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

In what county do you live? I forget. Good to get together with you and chat about subjects of mutual interest. Aren't many retired tree guys I know. Bill Spiewak is one, Duke McPherson is another. Both are making out as consulting arborists now. Both started tree service companies decades ago around here.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 10:17PM
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don_socal

I live in Fullerton email me from here or FB and we will figure a time and place to meet.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 10:38PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Yep: Everyone I meet has something for me and I have something for them, because God arranged it.

Hogwash.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 10:45PM
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marshallz10(z9-10 CA)

No, Garden Web techs facilitated your enlightenment. You should complain to them. :)

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 11:32PM
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terriks

Ditto what bboy said.

Yes, we can learn from each other, but I believe it is by chance, and an open mind.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2012 at 11:52PM
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don_socal

You have to do it yourself as Marshals and I just demonstrated by arranging a meeting for coffee and/or lunch.

"Life is a game, you fly a paper plane, there is no aim." from an old song on the flip side of Get it together.

Thunderclap Newman - Accidents

I see Johnny in the middle of a roundabout, playing
In his hand was a paper aeroplane
Then I looked around
And he was gone
Am I to blame

I see Mary standing by the river side, waiting
She thinks the queen is coming by
Then I looked around
And she was gone
Why

(lalalalalalalala etc.)

There's a thousand answers that I don't know
I don't know
I know how

There's a thousand feelings that I can't show
I can't show
Just right now

I see Simon standing on the railway bridge, spotting
He's waiting there to see the fastest train
Then I looked around
And he was gone
Am I to blame

I see Jimmy climbing on the milkman's van, laughing�

Now Mary and Johnny are all together
And Simon and Jimmy are free
To touch anything and everything they see

I see Jimmy climbing on the milkman's van, laughing
On his feet were a pair of granddad's shoes
Then I looked around
And he was gone
Are we to lose

Life's just a game, you fly a paper plane, there is no aim (18x)

Here is a link that might be useful: Thunderclap Newman - Accidents

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 12:29AM
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bill_vincent(Central Maine)

Yep: Everyone I meet has something for me and I have something for them, because God arranged it.
Hogwash.

You never miss an opportunity to sh*t an a decent thread. Although that's MY belief, I never said a THING about God. I don't care if you think it's your fairy godmother, the flying spaghetti monster, or whatever. Nothing just "happens" by chance.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 1:17AM
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fouquieria(10b)

You never miss an opportunity to sh*t an a decent thread.

Don't get angry Bill. Remember, God arranged it.

-Ron-

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 2:25AM
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heri_cles

.....About the only things that haven't changed (and won't) are my views on God and my views on the 2nd amendment.

I never said a THING about God I don't care if you think it's your fairy godmother, the flying spaghetti monster, or whatever. Nothing just "happens" by chance

You my not have meant to inject religious belief but it does sound like you are making an argument that circumstances are preordained by God. It is the same argument that Creationists make.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 2:28AM
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lily316(z5PA)

What if we had a giant picnic, and everyone here on HT attended without name tags? Except for Bill, I don't think there are pictures out there. Would be an interesting scenario. Could we figure it out? How long would it take with no hints?

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 2:48AM
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Elly_NJ(NJ z6)

I would know Bill even if there weren't a picture : ) I'd just know.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 7:09AM
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demifloyd(8)

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Sun, Nov 18, 12 at 2:48

What if we had a giant picnic, and everyone here on HT attended without name tags? Except for Bill, I don't think there are pictures out there. Would be an interesting scenario. Could we figure it out? How long would it take with no hints?

*

It wouldn't take long, I don't think.

Even if we didn't say a word.

Now, if we all had shaved heads and prison garb and couldn't say a word, it might take a little longer.

Not a lot longer.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 8:21AM
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labrea_gw

Sorry you can't get a designed life immediately includes (not an it but a what a concept of a designer)
A universe designers that design the phenomenal universe (a universe where stuff happens) call it god!
As I wrote Bill Theologians have haggled over this for thousands of years.
AS I've experienced again & again a lot of people get really cranky if you even suggest it might be just a Happy Thought.
Happy Thoughts are like Heroin Cash or Food don't get between someone & their Happy Thoughts that include the people who eschew the idea of a Happy Thought Universe.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 10:35AM
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batyabeth

Someone wanna come all the way here and PLEASE take my caper bushes? They are nice when green, but when dry are a menace to life, limb and the pursuit of happiness. Awash in wild nasturtiums too.

And what a great picnic that would be, because we'd all be talking about gardening and sharing food. I'm in!

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 10:53AM
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lavenderlver

That IS an interesting thought Lily. I have a mental image of you, but it's probably not very accurate. Does anyone think we 'assign' a more good looking image to those we connect with on this board? I read a study years ago and I seem to recall that being the case.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 10:55AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

Marquest, just for the record - vgkg (me) is a He!
Married to VgQn, a she, who tolerates this old dude.

Glad to insert a few giggles here and there.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 11:04AM
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marquest(z5 PA)

Marquest, just for the record - vgkg (me) is a He!

Oh I am so sorry. I do not know why I got the feeling of female. I know why.....the way you express a thought is a deep feeling impression in my mind. Not saying men are shallow just more surface thinkers and expression in my experience.

As I said that I know it sounds wrong but please do not take it as a insult. There is a saying "Get In Touch With Your Feminine Side." You do that well. lol

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 11:19AM
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lily316(z5PA)

See my point was made. I, too ,thought vgkg was a woman. That's a compliment because he is clever and sensitive like the female species...lol. (Dodging stones thrown by the guys)

I think our names conjure up a face which may remind us of someone we knew/know with that name. My moniker however is from a little diminutive tortie cat I had who died two years ago. I wanted a female name simple with few letters.

This would be a great sociological experiment, but Batya is right, we'd end up talking about gardening which is why we all started on Garden Web in the first place. But the food would be outstanding!!

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 12:10PM
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elvis

I love Batya's idea; but it might not happen if we didn't have a caveat from the jump: no politics.

The name thing is interesting; I figured vgkg was a guy because well, duh "Veggie King". On the other hand I use Elvis (who was my Gordon Setter), and even though I tried to keep gender out of the conversation, somebody eventually dragged it in. It was interesting for the threads where I was bashed early on for my viewpoint as a "guy" who simply couldn't understand "a woman's point of view". That was fun.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 2:46PM
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vgkg(Z-7)

Thank you Marquest and Lily for the compliment (I think ;), just kidding, a very nice thing to say. VgQn has taught me well, I do try to wear the shoes of others when trying to size them up. You women should Not be treated like a 2nd class to men, we're all just Equal fellow human beings.

Thanks Elvis for recognizing the full spelling, I've been called a lot of things posing as the shorthand version vgkg

ps, I think of a Mars Quest when I see your name so don't be sorry :) and I thought Hamiltongardener was a guy for several years, just due to Hamilton.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 5:07PM
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citywoman2012

lily gave a visual that gives a lot of ponder.
I know in business several years ago, speaking to unseen
clients, then meeting them at Commerce Meetings, I will
have to say once or twice my visual left me speechless.

This venue gives so much license for different layers.
It would not be unrealistic to say some of us would have
some similiar traits.

I think the body and face image would be the surprise.
I laugh most all the time and I sometimes think I read
that personality in a few on here.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 5:56PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I remember when elvis finally discovered I was a woman it was interesting.

vgkg, Mars Quest that is why I like the name.......When I heard the name I thought of the Solar System.
My handle is my favorite professor's name that is a friend. We continue to stay in contact. But when I like someone I never severe contact. I still talk to and write the first boss I had when I graduated High school.

Good people should never just pass through your life, if they have value keep them close.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 6:40PM
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elvis

"I remember when elvis finally discovered I was a woman it was interesting."

Yes; I was surprised. I thought marquest was an fussy old bachelor till "he" referred to "him"self as a mother ;D

    Bookmark   November 18, 2012 at 7:49PM
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