"This is a Catholic country."

jon_in_wessex(z8/9 UK)November 14, 2012

Can't even trust myself to comment.

"This is a situation we were told would never arise. An unviable foetus - the woman was having a miscarriage - was given priority over the woman's life, who unfortunately and predictably developed septicaemia and died."

Here is a link that might be useful: Ignorance is bliss

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momj47(7A)

I just read about that on the BBC News site, what a senseless tragedy.

Here's an interesting article about a study of women who have or who are denied abortion.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 2:34PM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

That's sad. And maddening too.

That actually brings to mind a situation that now I have to ask about. Many years ago, an aquaintance of mine was told they could not find the fetus' heartbeat during a visit. Further tests showed that the fetus had indeed died in utero.

The hospital gave her an option of having the fetus removed or letting it pass naturally, which they told her was better for her body's healing process. She opted to have her body pass it naturally and apparently did with no problems.

Was the natural process better or was she being set up for the same kind of problem as this woman?

I suppose it depends on whether she was having complications in the miscarriage... many women have miscarriages without problems...

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 2:35PM
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rob333

I mourn her! That is so horrible. I will tell you, the US doesn't view it the same way. If your body is already miscarrying, they'll do a DC and call it a DC, not an abortion. Actually, they do call it a "spontaneous abortion?", but it's surely viewed differently. I think the difference is that the conception has to have a real possbility of living, which there wasn't any possibility for her conception. They should've seen that. Why they didn't is beyond me.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 2:39PM
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labrea_gw

Joe Higgins is right with all the problems the Church had in that nation it still exerts political control over the lives of people who are no believers or down right hostile to it's dogma!

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 3:04PM
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rob333

HG,

I can answer that. I have had five miscarriages (and one contentious pregnancy that turned out with a fantastic kid! He's a miracle and worth it all). The last two, I let my body do it all naturally. I finally figured out, older and wiser, nature knew best and it was far less invasive. It can happen just fine without intervention. Such was obviously not the case of this beautiful dentist's case. It's so horrible!

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 3:12PM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

The last two, I let my body do it all naturally. I finally figured out, older and wiser, nature knew best and it was far less invasive.

This was basically what the doctor had told her... the body will start relieveing the swelling faster on it's own if it miscarries naturally, healing time, etc.

I suppose the woman in the story had a complication OF a miscarriage... the miscarriage itself was not the dangerous part.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 3:22PM
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hamiltongardener(CAN 6a)

I'm thinking that the woman in the story is a victim of having someone else's religious beliefs forced upon her.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 3:25PM
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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

all the problems the Church had in that nation it still exerts political control over the lives of people who are no believers or down right hostile to it's dogma!

or are Catholics who believe in saving the life of the woman instead of adhering to the cult of the fetus.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 3:44PM
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lily316(z5PA)

This is an unbelievable story. Another reason the far Right in this country can never get in control.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 3:58PM
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labrea_gw

Jesus will you know he had a plan for her hopefully Kali was comforting when she came. We can let Krishna & the Holy Ghost duke it out in the courts!

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 4:01PM
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rob333

I agree HG, thrust upon her. Not unlike the teen boy who died of appendicitis because of his parents' belief, what, a couple of months ago? I just don't understand how ANY religious ideal can be more precious than a life. Why are the courts letting them get away with it? Regardless of the country?

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 4:11PM
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pnbrown

Doesn't seem like a simple situation. Termination never is. If there was a heartbeat then the fetus was not dead, so it's a difficult call for the supervising physician.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 4:17PM
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rob333

pn,
Truly spoken like a man who would never have to suffer the possibility of losing their life. Play God with your own life, not someone else's. All right then. Appealing to your somewhat shifting logic: If they were to save the life of the baby, they'd have to have kept the mother alive. Don't you think it's neglectful not to have helped both of them?

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 4:47PM
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esh_ga

Tragic.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 4:54PM
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pnbrown

True, I cannot be pregnant. The closest I can get to such a situation is to imagine one of my daughters in that predicament and that it was my decision. Probably I would say terminate because I care more about the person I know than the fetus I don't know. Thank goodness I'll never have make such a decision, and I don't presume to judge those that have to make it.

But I don't necessarily consider that to be the most ethical decision. That's the thing about the whole abortion issue, IMO, it's lose-lose. There is no right attitude toward it.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 4:56PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

My understanding was that the fetus was dying. It was not a question of whether to save the fetus or save the mother. The fetus was going to die no matter what they did. The issue was, why did the mother have to die just because the fetus was dying. All they got out of that was TWO deaths instead of ONE.

Such a tragic story--and such a horrible hospital policy and an inhumane religion that requires a woman must die to save a fetus OR because a fetus is dying. That is just downright sick!

Kate

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 5:10PM
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lily316(z5PA)

Whole different take on this subject if men bore the babies.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 5:18PM
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pnbrown

Is it possible that hindsight is 20-20? Perhaps a doctor cannot always, or more likely, can never know with certainty who is going to die and when?

This kind of situation could and no doubt does happen in non-Catholic hospitals and countries.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 5:42PM
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ninamarie(4Ont.)

Why is a potential life more valuable than the life being lived?
Because that's what it always boils down to.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 5:53PM
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jodik_gw

Barbaric and medieval. We have the technology, the modern medicine, but not the logic or compassion. How very typical of religious idealism.

And people wonder why I don't have good things to say about this subject.

I mourn the loss of this woman, who wasn't even of the same faith, and did not have to die. The possibility of full recovery, and of carrying another pregnancy to full term might have been very good. But her husband will never know, because religion allowed... no, forced... the death of his wife.

There's no "sacred plan" in that. It's abominable, reprehensible, vile, and repugnant.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 5:53PM
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esh_ga

Hindsight 20-20? Sounds like they knew what was going on.

He went on: "A doctor said it was the law - that this is a Catholic country. Savita said, `I am neither Irish not Catholic' but they said there was nothing they could do."

He said the doctor said that the baby would not survive, but that as long as there was a foetal heartbeat "there was nothing they could do." Three days followed, he added, in which the heartbeak was checked several times a day.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 5:59PM
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patriciae_gw(07)

If and when and where women have control over their own bodies you dont have to guess. The woman wanted an abortion.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 6:03PM
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labrea_gw

As much as I love Ireland they do some stupid things like passing a Blasphemy law in 2009

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 12:48AM
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woodnymph2_gw

This is unspeakably shameful in the 21st century. How can any rational person let "religion" trump the value of saving the mother's life?

Oh, and WWJD?

    Bookmark   November 15, 2012 at 10:50AM
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