Flip Flop

mrskjun(9)December 6, 2012

Or is it, my way or the hwy...or cliff as the case may be. Why was the republican plan the right plan in 2011, but raising taxes, which we know will only run the government a few days, the only option now?

Here is a link that might be useful: link

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jmc01

it's not the only option because both parties have already agreed to entitlement cuts and revenue increases. Hang on there, mrsk...the total package is still evolving.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 6:56AM
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tobr24u(z6 RI)

Yes, heavy negotiating is going on behind the scenes, of that you can be sure...

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 7:02AM
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jerzeegirl(9)

Why didn't it bother you when George Bush did my way or the highway? One could argue that he set the tone for future presidents.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 7:30AM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

As Bill says, twin brothers of different mothers.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 7:34AM
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mrskjun(9)

Why would you say it didn't bother me jz? Is that really the best you can say?

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 7:54AM
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chase_gw

President Obama made it very clear during the election that he wants the wealthy to contribute to solving the problem they in large part created. He was very upfront about raising tax rates on the very wealthy and most Americans agree with him. The Republicans need to listen to the voice of the people .

How they posture in front of the Public and what is happening behind the scenes is two different things.

I do think it is beyond absurd that these bozos play this "down to the wire" game every time.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 8:01AM
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jerzeegirl(9)

Why would you say it didn't bother me jz? Is that really the best you can say

The best I can say is that you obviously do not understand the art of negotiation. It's flip-flopping to the highest power. Some would call it give and take.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 8:04AM
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esh_ga

Situations change - this is not 2011 and solutions proposed then are not necessarily appropriate now.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 8:30AM
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PRO
Brushworks Spectacular Finishes(5)

It will all be worked out soon, but let's brew the hatred for a few more weeks to keep the country divided.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 8:32AM
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labrea_gw

Last time he offered to meet them in the middle as a sign of good faith. He"ll never make that mistake again!

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 10:42AM
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rob333

We're hearing that they may risk going over the cliff in order to get what they want. And it's both sides risking this. Not just TP-bullies. I've had it with all of Congress. Tax the corporations and rich and get on with it already! No more taking down the stock market and the little guys!

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 10:55AM
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esh_ga

Relatedly, the Washington Post reports that Republican centrists and even some conservatives are calling on Boehner "to concede on rates now, while he still has some leverage to demand something in return. Republicans are eager to win changes to fast-growing safety-net programs, such as raising the eligibility age for Medicare and applying a less-generous measure of inflation to Social Security benefits." More: "'I and some others are advocating giving the president what he wants,' said Rep. Steven C. LaTourette (R-Ohio). But he stressed that this must be part of a package that slows federal borrowing and reduces the debt by $4 trillion to $5 trillion. 'Quite frankly, some people in this 2 percent who call me, they're more worried about the fiscal cliff than about the rates going up a couple points. That has bigger risk for them,' said LaTourette, a close Boehner ally who is retiring in January."

Here is a link that might be useful: Getting closer

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 11:14AM
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jillinnj

Last time he offered to meet them in the middle as a sign of good faith. He"ll never make that mistake again!

Exactly! Been there, done that. Didn't work. Not going back.

Obama was reelected with his position of raising taxes on the upper 2% to help fix the problems in this country. Republicans may not like that, but it's really just too bad.

If Republicans refuse to agree to raise the tax rate on the upper 2% and continue to hold the rest of us hostage, and we go off the cliff, who do you think will be blamed? I don't think it will be Obama.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 1:33PM
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lily316(z5PA)

Last time I looked Obama won the election with the majority of the country believing as he does on more taxes for the rich.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 1:38PM
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citywoman2012

"Obama was reelected with his position of raising taxes on the upper 2% to help fix the problems in this country. Republicans may not like that, but it's really just too bad."

Well, I'm a Republican and if raising taxes on the upper 2%
is going to help fix this country ......then I am for it
you betcha.
I can see how taxing 1% or 2% would knock that 16 Trill
right out of the ballpark. In a few years we will be back
on top!!
Count me in on that tax rate.
Lets go get er done!!
Those rich infidels need to be shown they can't get away with having more than others.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 5:00PM
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labrea_gw

Just priming the pump just priming the pump!
Just bringing the beast to it's knees beats closing imaginary loopholes!

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 5:14PM
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chase_gw

Citywoman, it is part of the solution not all of the solution.

The real issue is that the rich should have skin in the game in terms of reducing the debt. It should not fall totally on the shoulders of the middle class and poor to bear that burden.

If the wealthy do not contribute to debt reduction through revenue increases how would you propose they contribute?

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 8:47PM
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dockside_gw

Bobby Jindahl put it very succinctly, I think, in his editorial in today's Politico, when he said:

At present, any reading of the headlines over the past week indicates that Republicans are fighting to protect the rich and cut benefits for seniors. It may be possible to have worse political positioning than that, but I'm not sure how.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 9:13PM
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marquest(z5 PA)

I can see how taxing 1% or 2% would knock that 16 Trill
right out of the ballpark. In a few years we will be back
on top!!

That is like saying I have a 800,000 dollar house I will not work for that company because they will not pay me 800,000 today.

When everyone get some skin in the game including when the tax man comes knocking on doors of tax cheaters we will get that debt down.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 9:22PM
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labrea_gw

When this dog of a crew has been brought to heel then the work can begin.
Just wait to the howling begins tomorrow over the jobs report!

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 10:43PM
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susanilz5(z5 IL)

"Those rich infidels need to be shown they can't get away with having more than others."

Without the poor and the middle class the rich would not be rich. If you have more you can contribute more.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2012 at 12:48AM
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jillinnj

Well, I'm a Republican and if raising taxes on the upper 2% is going to help fix this country ......then I am for it

Good. I suggest you write your representatives to make your opinion known. Because, of course, any amount of extra money will help fix this country.

Every bit helps.

Those rich infidels need to be shown they can't get away with having more than others.

Your logic is that because the rich go back to paying what they used to pay when the economy was doing very well will cause them to not have more than others? You'll have to explain that one.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:23PM
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cornopean

@chase the wealthy created the problem with the fiscal cliff?!?! Ha! Please explain this to me. I am so ignorant.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:25PM
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cornopean

@rob333 it is impossible to tax corporations. Since corps are not individuals, they don't pay any tax that is levied on them. They always pass the tax on to their customers (higher prices), their employees (in fewer promotions or lower pay), or to their stockholders. The CBO did a study some time ago that concluded that 70% of the corporate income tax was paid BY LABOR. haha!! and liberals think they are so pro-labor. again, liberals pass laws that make them feel good, but usually, the law hurts the very people it was intended to help.
Even Obama came out in favor of lowering the corporate income tax to 25 percent in the first debate.

Here is a link that might be useful: Who pays the Corporate Income Tax?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:30PM
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esh_ga

Corporations pass bonuses for their employees onto customers in the form of higher prices too. Instead of doing that they could lower prices and likely increase sales, increasing their labor force and creating jobs in the process.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:38PM
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cornopean

As Stossell writes;
"But its a fantasy to imagine that raising taxes on the rich will solve our deficit problem. If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. Thats only a third of this years deficit. Our national debt would continue to explode."

Here is a link that might be useful: Tax the rich 100 percent

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:43PM
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cornopean

@esh_ga so are you advocating a federal law banning companies from giving bonuses to their employees? and while you're at it, just fix prices. That will keep prices low.
Talk about a cliff.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:45PM
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esh_ga

No, I'm certainly not advocating that. I'm simply pointing out that there are other ways that corporations pass costs (like taxes) onto their customers. And likewise those decisions have consequences.

Corporations are always free to make their own choices in this regard, of course.

And do spare us the usual talking point about "grabbing 100 percent of income would not solve the deficit". No one truly ever thought that nor advocated for it.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:52PM
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cornopean

So do you support eliminating the corporate income tax?

and my point with the "grabbing 100 percent of the income of the rich" was to show how silly it is to talk about raising taxes on the rich.
What do liberals hope to accomplish by doing this? It will not resolve the debt crisis. and it likely will bring in no add'l tax revenue (see my latest post). So....what's the point?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 2:04PM
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esh_ga

No I don't support eliminating the corporate income tax. Corporations benefit from government spending - roads, research, and many other by-products of government spending help corporations ship their goods, develop new products, etc. Corporate taxes are reasonable and appropriate.

Just because grabbing 100% of the income isn't the solution doesn't mean that taxing shouldn't be done at all. Your silliness doesn't negate the argument.

Measured doses of increased revenue and reduced spending are prudent approaches to improving the deficit. One doesn't work alone. The Clinton years were not so far away - we ran a surplus then, there was no deficit.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 2:09PM
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