Government Probe

labrea_gwFebruary 21, 2012

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tobr24u(z6 RI)

If you think that I am going to comment on that you are delusional...

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 7:35AM
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ohiomom

...actually that is what an ultrasound probe looks like. And this is what the State of Virginia has mandated for women. 1K women held a silent protest there yesterday.

I think they should be used on any man who seeks a prescription for viagara ... bend over !

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 8:02AM
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labrea_gw

State Rape!

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 8:03AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

Yes Virginia, you are being run by idiots. All we need now is for George Allen to win the senate seat again and we'll be complete. A complete joke.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 9:51AM
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woodnymph2_gw

Yeah, what has happened to the Old Dominion, the Commonwealth of Thomas Jefferson, et al? Even Tim Kaine was a moderate whom I liked. Now, the Eric Kantors and the Macaca ranters seem to be in charge....

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 10:07AM
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vgkg(Z-7)

WN, hopefully Tim Kaine will defeat Mr Macaca for the senate seat. Allen's record of past support of anything Bushy might be hard to overcome. Kaine was a far better Governor than Allen too imho.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 10:38AM
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esh_ga

I'm flying to Virginia on Thursday - hope I don't run across one of those things!

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 10:41AM
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labrea_gw

Now if it vibrated we could arrest the prober for unnatural sex acts based on or prostitution with a mechanical device. Virginia still has sodomy laws on the book.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 11:32AM
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demifloyd(8)

That's it--it doesn't even have to vibrate!

All someone has to do is claim the technician "moved it unnecessarily in a sexually suggestive manner."

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 11:49AM
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jodik_gw

I wonder, did it come in a plain brown paper package, and can anyone get one... because I'm sure there are a few GOP politicians eyeballing that thing with purposeful, but secret, intent.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2012 at 11:59AM
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esh_ga

The Virginia bill was changed at the last minute to require an external (transabdominal) ultrasound instead. So the ultrasound is still required, but not the invasive one.

The bill passed 65-32.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 5:01PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

I'm not up on this, what is the point of sticking that thing in someone?

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 5:20PM
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vgkg(Z-7)

The point it to humiliate the women (who are already suffering with their painful decision) as much as possible.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 5:38PM
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duluthinbloomz4

Stick it in you; stick it to you... seems to be all the same in Virginia.

I keep hearing big talk about the VA governor, Bob McDonnell (who will be signing this horror) might likely be Romney's pick for VEEP.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 5:39PM
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chase_gw

I've had a vaginal ultrasound and it is, without a doubt, the most invasive, uncomfortable, embarrassing test I've ever endured. The tears were streaming down my face. Way worse than a pap smear, way worse.

To force that on a woman would be criminal.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 5:47PM
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demifloyd(8)

Interesting, I had one a few months ago, first one.
A pap smear is ten times worse in my estimation.

Of course, considering back surgeries and other things, these types of procedures are a walk in the park comparatively speaking.

Must be the technicians or doctors that make the difference.

Women should not be forced to have these or any other procedures that are medically unnecessary before having a legal procedure.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 6:03PM
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chase_gw

I doubt, given the high caliber of this clinic and the number of tests I've had there, that it was the technicians.

Perhaps the reasons for the test dictate the penetration, the duration and the movement of the probe. Pap smear is over in a flash....uncomfortable but no biggie to me.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 6:08PM
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demifloyd(8)

I agree, it is an uncomfortable procedure but I have learned that pain is relative and on a scale of what I've felt in my lifetime, this is very low.

People have different pain tolerances and some people haven't experienced some levels a pain to make a comparison.

May be that the invasive ultrasound is conducted differently depending on the reason, as you suggested.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 6:20PM
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ohiomom

Women should not be forced to have these or any other procedures that are medically unnecessary before having a legal procedure.

And that is the crux of the matter, a "legal procedure".

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 6:37PM
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chase_gw

Actually I have a very high tolerance for pain. The procedure did not hurt in that sense. However, that is not relevant given we all agree that forcing this procedure on a woman is just plain wrong.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 6:41PM
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jodik_gw

"Women should not be forced to have these or any other procedures that are medically unnecessary before having a legal procedure."

"The point it to humiliate the women (who are already suffering with their painful decision) as much as possible."

Exactly... and exactly. This is a LEGAL PROCEDURE that religion has no business interfering in!

This entire politically and religiously charged thing just gets weirder and worse by the minute.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 7:11PM
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elvis

Well, they changed the bill, according to esh_ga. So that's that for this weird procedure. Maybe discussions like this one had a hand in that, who knows?

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 7:35PM
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ohiomom

....or maybe they had a thought, it is an election year and women "vote".

Cynical in Cleveland

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 7:39PM
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labrea_gw

The amendment that passed today still requires transabdominal ultrasounds, but women will be able to accept or reject "follow-up ultrasounds - including internal ones" that doctors might recommend.
Republicans back in favor of selective MANDATES!

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 7:44PM
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david52 Zone 6

....or maybe they had a thought, it is an election year and women "vote"

That would be only if they can present a valid photo ID, with details on height, weight, hair color, and DOB, so that the poll watchers can verify that they are who they say they are.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 7:59PM
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elvis

Well yeah, Mom. Exactly my point.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 8:00PM
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esh_ga

Yep, Virginia is the seventh state to REQUIRE an ultrasound prior to obtaining an abortion.

Still got it wrong. This requirement is nothing but intimidation and harassment.

I'll someone threatened to sue them for rape if they proceeded with the bill as it was.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 8:17PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

Republicans are good at driving up the cost of healthcare.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 8:48PM
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elvis

JZG, all Republicans or just some Republicans? No Democrats?

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 9:42PM
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yogacat(z4 MN)

I'm not up on this, what is the point of sticking that thing in someone?

As others have said, in this instance it's about harassment and punishment.

When being used as intended, it provides imaging of the pelvis (mainly the uterus) that is not possible with an external ultrasound. Typical reasons are to find abnormal pelvic growths (tumors, fibroids, polyps, etc.), to determine the source of pelvic pain, unexplained vaginal bleeding or abnormal menstrual flow.

At the very least, it's physically uncomfortable because you typically have to drink a large amount of water beforehand to push the organs into the optimal position for imaging. It might or might not be physically painful depending on the specifics of the patient's body. It is also a very invasive test.

Psychologically, it's a completely different matter. It varies from person to person or even for the same person on different days. Any gynecological exam can go from ok to horrible in an instant, and the patient may not even understand why. The annual exam and pap test are usually pretty quick. The ultrasound takes longer, so there's more opportunity for something to trigger the creep factor. I've had other exams that bothered me more, but I can easily see how this procedure could be a huge problem even with a skilled technician. I'm find it hard to imagine how a woman who had ever been raped or sexually abused could handle it at all.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2012 at 10:32PM
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labrea_gw

I think the Gubineer needs to abducted by aliens and anal probed.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 6:15PM
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jerzeegirl(9)

JZG, all Republicans or just some Republicans? No Democrats? Good point, I believe in Virginia there were some democrats who voted for this nasty bill.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 7:32PM
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jodik_gw

It even LOOKS painful and humiliating. I couldn't even imagine having that stuffed inside me up to my cervix! How horrible! And I've never been raped or had a bad experience of that nature.

Pure denigration and humiliation. That's what it's built for related to this conversation, and for no other reason.

For you gentlemen, imagine having that thing coated with cold KY jelly and inserted up to the handle into your anus. How do you think that might make you feel?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 8:01PM
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elvis

I think your post just caused that awful picture to go away. Thank goodness!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 8:19PM
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elvis

Rats--it's back...

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 8:40PM
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ohiomom

Oh I hope it "that awful picture" stays with you permanently.

"meow"

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 10:01PM
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labrea_gw

Filled with awe good that was the idea!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2012 at 10:20PM
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esh_ga

In Virginia today (I am, that is). Front page story that the Personhood bill/amendment has been shelved for a year in Virginia.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2012 at 11:52AM
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